Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

GR- you were kind enough to draw my attention to an interesting and informative article by Natasha Leriou, forming a thesis she wrote at Birmingham, posted on the stanford website (and yours I think). She has produced a revised version.

http://www.mom.fr/IMG/pdf/Leriou_ed-2.pdf.

I am inclined to agree that the Hellenists who attribute Hellenisation to the Mycenaean people are at the minimum grossly exaggerating the Mycenaean influence: the archaeological evidence (as reported by Maria Iacovou and others) indicates that Cyprus was not Hellenised fully until about 320-295 BC or so, when it fell under the domination of Alexander the Macedonian and then the Ptolomaic Pharaohs (Cyprus changed hands several times in the various wars between the successors to Alexander from 320 to 295BC
At that point Iacovou reports three languages/Cultures in Cyprus which for the previous 400 years or so had been mostly dominated by the Persian empire.
1) The EteoCypriote language, a non-Greek pre-indo European language, probably related to ancient Minoan, both in spoken and written form ,
2) the arcado-Cypriot language, an indo-european early Greek language
3) Phoenician, obviously from Phoenician settlements on the Island,
The Ptolemaic Pharaohs suppressed the existing city kingdoms and imposed their own culture on the whole Island. It was however achived by conquest and probably a process of political and elitst ascendancy, rather then population inflow.

It is a given that up to about 1200 BC barring some traders, the majority of the Cypriot population were not Greek: they were descended from a group of peoples who came out of the near east and spread west along the Anatolian coast, Island hoping to Crete, and probably forming the Pelagsian (Pre-Greek speaking) peoples of what is now Greece, in about 10000 BC, when the last glacial retreat occurred and the Climate improved.

The Myceneans are of different stock: they are descended from a group of peoples who inhabited the Steppes and moved West and South, probably entering what is now modern Greece from the North about 2500/2000 BC.

They conquered Crete in 1500 BC or so, and traded with the rest of the known world, including Cyprus.

In about 1200 BC that world collapsed,. and only the Egyptian and Phoenicians remained largely intact but not unaffected. There was a dark age which lasted until about 800 BC , After that, Hellenistic culture began to expand, with Colonisation and later the empire building of the Macedonians.

As Iacovou set out (pages 210 onwards) Cyprus did not feature in the various waves of Greek Colonisation that occured in the 8th C BC onwards.
see http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z3C9 ... ge&f=false

That is not to say that there had not been Mycenaean Influence, and possibly local domination at e.g Enkomi, from the 13thC BC, where at about 1200 BC the original EteoCypriot city was destroyed and then replaced by a city more in Mycenaean Style, using ashlar walls, new tomb styles, and above all the Arcado Cypriot language, a Greek Language, descended from the Mycenaean language. What Leriou does not explain is how these particular changes at Enkomi came about. Pot copying does not cover everything. It is otherwise unusual for a people to change so much in terms of language, building style, funerary rights, pottery style, etc.

What I surmise happen is that with the confusion then reigning in the eastern med, which saw the destruction of so much, including the Mycenaean centres of power in what is now Greece, a few well organised well armed Mycenaeans took control of Enkomi and established a local power base: their language and culture became locally established but not dominant in whole Island.

They may well have occupied other sites, e.g Paphos, but overall this was I think only quite a a local effect, hence the fact that the EteoCypriot language continued, along with the introduction of the Phoenician Language fro Phoenician colonists, in other parts of the Island.

There will obviously have been some Genetic admixture but I suspect that genetically only a relatively small proportion of Cypriots have Mycenaean (or for that matter any mainland Greek) anceststry.

The Key point is however that Hellenisation only finally occured around about 300 BC, ie some 2300 years ago, not 3500 years back, and by a different process. The Mycenaeaisation of the Island in 1200 BC is in IMHO at best a myth if not a lie.


,

[Klik]

EteoCypriot language. Still has influence in the Cypriot dialect, even a small one

I wasn't aware that the Phoenician language was used in Cyprus after the Phoenicians left* (or died)
It was a known language in the then world of the Mediterranean since they had trade posts throughout the coasts from the Levant to present day Gibraltar and even beyond! Maybe she is talking about that when she says that it was used, since there's no other evidence really. It's all assumption. Given that some people knew the Phoenician language(and the Phoenicians spoke some Greek dialects as well) she assumes that Cypriots knew Phoenician as well(which is true for a large number) and she also assumes that they spoke it within themselves, something I doubt that happened.

Eteocypriot, where eteo = αυθεντικος = true/original. It was the name given by the Greeks to the existing population, for those who claim that the Greeks killed the original Cypriots
They even SHARED a language. EteoCypriot language was used in other Greek places for a long period of time, specially in the southern Aegean islands and Crete, mostly because of trade. ArcadoCypriot derived from the Achaean-Cypriot close relationship and is the closest to Myceanean Greek. I think this says a lot about Myceanean influence

The Cypriot syllabary was a local alphabet which was local written form of the ArcadoCypriot dialect as well as the EteoCypriot language.

Today's Cypriot dialect has both ArcadoCypriot and Eteocypriot influence. Alexander the Great's conquest changed the 'official' language to Κοινή Ελληνική (Koine Greek) which has most influence on today's dialect of Cyprus.
Of course some regions like Paphos and Paralimni/Ammochostos region haven't adopted the language/dialect as the rest of the island, hence they have some different, more ancient, words that they use.

P.S: Can you [code][/code] your 2nd link coz the page is fucked?

[Get Real!]

The Key point is however that Hellenisation only finally occured around about 300 BC, ie some 2300 years ago, not 3500 years back, and by a different process. The Mycenaeaisation of the Island in 1200 BC is in IMHO at best a myth if not a lie.

The reason for this is because Greek history writers were desperate to
place Mycenaeans; who were completely overrun and wiped out by
Dorians (modern Slavs), somewhere safe (Cyprus) for later retrieval,
so as to “establish" continuity with modern “Greeks”!

[Klik]

ahahahhahahahaha... beware of thorns and sharp ends. You don't want that bubble you live in to burst now do you?

[Lit]

The Key point is however that Hellenisation only finally occured around about 300 BC, ie some 2300 years ago, not 3500 years back, and by a different process. The Mycenaeaisation of the Island in 1200 BC is in IMHO at best a myth if not a lie.

The reason for this is because Greek history writers were desperate to
place Mycenaeans; who were completely overrun and wiped out by
Dorians (modern Slavs), somewhere safe (Cyprus) for later retrieval,
so as to “establish" continuity with modern “Greeks”!

Dorians were a Greek tribe you silly simpleton. Educate yourself.


Fordham University: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook07.html

Penn State University: http://www.personal.psu.edu/ldl137/web_ ... eople.html

University of Pennsylvania: http://www.penn.museum/
do a search on Dorians...i do not have time to look for the link.

One more before i go...

Washington State University: http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/GREECE/GREECE.HTM



Now i want you to do your homework and study those links above, Box Head. I have to run some errands but will test you when i get back.

[Get Real!]

Greeks invading and occupying Greeks? I don‘t think so…

It also goes to show that there was no such thing as Greece/Greeks in which to have this mythological “hellenism” in the first place!

The Dorians (ancestors of modern Slavs) were clearly distinct northern tribes located outside of modern Greek boundaries even, let alone the puny little “Greek” kingdoms of those days!

All this “hellenism” baloney is an invention of the early 1800s so...

GET OVER IT!

[Lit]

Greeks invading and occupying Greeks? I don‘t think so…

You see box head, some Greek city States had opposing views and governments. Athens, for example, at one point in time was a bitter enemy and rival of Sparta.

It also goes to show that there was no such thing as Greece/Greeks in which to have this mythological “hellenism” in the first place!

It all goes to show that you lack education.

The Dorians (ancestors of modern Slavs) were clearly distinct northern tribes located outside of modern Greek boundaries even, let alone the puny little “Greek” kingdoms of those days!

All this “hellenism” baloney is an invention of the early 1800s so...

I am not interested in your theories. I supplied you with links to several prominent universities here in the States. Now i could have supplied you with more links to such universities but i knew it would just be a waist of time.

GET OVER IT!

FAIL!

You get an F- for not even trying.

LOL

[Klik]

Greeks invading and occupying Greeks? I don‘t think so…

It also goes to show that there was no such thing as Greece/Greeks in which to have this mythological “hellenism” in the first place!

The Dorians (ancestors of modern Slavs) were clearly distinct northern tribes located outside of modern Greek boundaries even, let alone the puny little “Greek” kingdoms of those days!

All this “hellenism” baloney is an invention of the early 1800s so...

GET OVER IT!

Einstein was so right about people like you...

Dufous, of course the "hellinism baloney" was UNCOVERED in the early 1800s. Maybe being 450 years under oppression and tyranny means that one cannot express himself, just saying maybe. Maybe the early millenium writings were actually 1800s writings that were forged as, is that what you'll say next?

Name me more than 15 COUNTRIES in 1750. Does that mean that all countries post-1800 are "baloney"? Or does that mean that everytime a country announces its independence they need to forget the past and their history starts from point 0 being the day of independence?

F-ing troll Pest of society.. People like you used to be amusing, now you're just polluting

[Get Real!]

Lit & Klit,

Look, you’re just a bankrupt and broken bunch of hopeless Slavs trying to cling onto megalomanic tales of the past in your
futile attempts for aggrandizement!

Just take your last breath and croak!

I’ll feed you crumbs no more…

[Klik]

Bankrupt? Me? I could feed your fat ass for 15 generations and have more for your fat cousins as well...
Not commenting on the Slav thing... In a few months I'll even show you my DNA evidence..