Cyprus-Forum.com

[AEKTZIS]

"Greece" began to exist after the 1820s, so much of what you say is obvious and not even noteworthy....and for your information my Bible and my Orthodox Church recognise something called GREEKS and something called the GREEK LANGUAGE since it was written in GREEK.

"Sirs, we would see Jesus"

[Oracle]

This entire argument seems to me irrational...."Cypriots" created civilization before greeks, whatever.

When Cypriots could read and write Greece did not even exist you silly fool! In fact the very Bible your Orthodox church goes by, does not even recognize anything called “Greece”!

Educate your self about the “cradle of civilization”… do you see Greece anywhere on the map?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_civilization

Your source qualifies with:

... but also extended to sites in Armenia[1], Greece and the Persian Plateau ...

[Get Real!]

"Greece" began to exist after the 1820s, so much of what you say is obvious and not even noteworthy....and for your information my Bible and my Orthodox Church recognise something called GREEKS and something called the GREEK LANGUAGE since it was written in GREEK.

Only the New Testament (50AD to 100AD) was written in Greek!

And btw I hope you don’t assume it was written by Greeks!

Dude, when Cyprus had a flourishing civilization and trading with the great pharaohs of Egypt, the yet to be labeled ”Greeks” were inventing homosexuality in caves and squatting to piss!

[Get Real!]

This entire argument seems to me irrational...."Cypriots" created civilization before greeks, whatever.

When Cypriots could read and write Greece did not even exist you silly fool! In fact the very Bible your Orthodox church goes by, does not even recognize anything called “Greece”!

Educate your self about the “cradle of civilization”… do you see Greece anywhere on the map?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_civilization

Your source qualifies with:

... but also extended to sites in Armenia[1], Greece and the Persian Plateau ...

The cradle is only what is shown on that map as verified by the first anthropological migratory routes...

[AEKTZIS]

Get Real, you dont have to patronise...Of course I know the apostles werent greek, I know my own religion.

"Sirs, we would see Jesus" - you think i know that quote and i dont know the basics about the bible? wtf?

Your belief that somehow cyprus created the world amuses me!!!! come on man, ase tis malakies, how did you buy into all this bullshit that cyprus ECLIPSES ELLADA???

BECAUSE CYPRUS DOES NOT ECLIPSE ELLADA MY FRIEND.....YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED!!!

[repulsewarrior]

...still, Cyprus deserves better than being "Greek" or "Turkish".

we know so little of the past, the Heritance left here is very important to all Mankind...

Cyprus got it's name from the Egyptians, before the pyramids were built; a word meaning copper.

[Gregory]

You are right Lit. As I said in another thread the position of GR is politically motivated an not based on any true historical facts.

He decided that if we change our identity and create a new kind of identity which will be free from the Greek-Turkish rivalry, that this will unite all Cypriots and solve the Cyprus problem. This is not an unreasonable belief to have, but GR will have to find better ways to promote it. Denying the obvious facts and trying to elevate a prehistoric village of 300 people to a "civilization" which has given us a "glorious heritage" is obviously something that no educated person will ever take seriously.

Personally I disagree with the belief that GR has, that if we created some new identity that this would solve the problem. First of all, changing the identity of the whole population is something extremely difficult and needs a lot more than myths about "Glorious Chirokitian Civilization". Most importantly by attempting to do such thing we would be alienating the rest of the Greeks and isolate ourselves even further. Even worst, such attempt will not work with most TCs, since what people care about is their own interests, and not the labels. If TCs by maintaining their Turkishness can have a lot more power, land and privileges, then be sure they will not give up their Turkishness and the gains (on our expense) that come with it.

Cyprus is not the only multi-ethic country in the world. Therefore being multi-ethnic is not the cause of the problem (otherwise all other multi-ethnic countries would have the same problems). Ethnicity was simply used by foreign Imperialists by granting privileges to a minority of the population and in this way turn it against the majority - the usual recipe for divide and rule.

Therefore for any solution to the Cyprus problem to be found the first (and extremely difficult) step is to end the influence of these Imperialists. If/when that happens we could concentrate on the many things that unite us, but we should also respect our different language, religion etc, and in this way we can have a normal democratic multi-ethnic nation where all citizens can be different but equal.

And in addition we must emphasize that one of the two main poles of G/cs failure in their policies after 1960 was this trial of some clever (like GR) to change with theories and myths the Ethnicity of the Greeks of Cyprus. This trial, together with the acts of fanatics and facists created the confusion and wrong policies by all parties concerned.

We have a clear and crystal Ethnicity and only the enemies have benefits of fighting this fact.(Proves are front of us).

The classical trick of these NEO CYPRIOTS is to confuse people by presenting any Hellenic route of G/cs equal to Junta and fascism.
Someone must explain them that people like Sampson and his followers can not have the right to represent Hellenism in Cyprus and real Hellines of the Island have not any relation with the acts against the existance of our state ,despite from where these acts are coming from!!!

I think you and Oracle might be the last "samurai" riding into the gunfire of our own people. You have made such a great of of convincing others that anything evil you do is not associated with Hellenism that you are excluding more and more of your people and forcing them to look to the past and see who they really were, EOKA A then EOKA B.

Zan, firstly i want to tell you that i have not the courage to be a "samurai".
Secondly-if you go through my posts you will realize that i refer in very rare cases to T/cs and Turks since i am focusing on our side's mistakes and problematic policies. This is just because i consider the danger of wrong understanding of situation of G/cs much more dangerous about our existance than negotiations with a winner of war which will not of course guide to a fair solution but only to a surrender agreement.At least the last is clear in my mind and it should be cleared to all G/cs.

You know what that sounds like to me......" I only make the bombs. I do not drop them. I also want to make sure that they are designed to kill the most possible Turks when they are dropped. It's my job and I want to make sure I do it well".

Neither EOKA or EOKA B were formed to go up against the
TC minority in Cyprus, your facts are worthless.

Wikipedia's wrong then Huh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EOKA_B

Ignoring the fact that wikipedia is open for contribution from just about anyone, still there is nothing in there that validates what you claim. The least you could have done is go into wikipedia and update it to whatever it is you want it to say.

Just plain lazy

[Oracle]

This entire argument seems to me irrational...."Cypriots" created civilization before greeks, whatever.

When Cypriots could read and write Greece did not even exist you silly fool! In fact the very Bible your Orthodox church goes by, does not even recognize anything called “Greece”!

Educate your self about the “cradle of civilization”… do you see Greece anywhere on the map?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_civilization

Your source qualifies with:

... but also extended to sites in Armenia[1], Greece and the Persian Plateau ...

The cradle is only what is shown on that map as verified by the first anthropological migratory routes...

That's the broad sweep of ONE haplotype around our coasts and doesn't show the subtle toing-and froing within the BROAD sweep (since you now agree they had some kind of boats in those times, otherwise how would they cross from Egypt to Cyprus and then Cyprus to other common early-Greek colonised areas?). The haplotype is not linked to "cradle of civilisation" arguments which you initiated. However, the evidence we have presented to you in the past, along with both your present sources, do all produce a cohesive picture that the western anthropic branch passed via Asia Minor (+/- Cyprus anywhere along the coast) towards what is now Greece (again, + to and from Cyprus). The genetic studies are most powerful when used alongside all the other tools we have; including, written/scratched/painted history and artefacts from as near the time as possible. There have been no surprises as far as the popular, long-ago speculated (now confirmed) routes which we have proposed to you in our discussions (Simon, Piratis, Paphitis - where is he btw - and some of the newer/older members).

I know you don't like reading long posts, which is why we have to repeat so much to you, but this is my last one on this matter. Please try to read, learn and retain.

[Mikiko]

You are right Lit. As I said in another thread the position of GR is politically motivated an not based on any true historical facts.

He decided that if we change our identity and create a new kind of identity which will be free from the Greek-Turkish rivalry, that this will unite all Cypriots and solve the Cyprus problem. This is not an unreasonable belief to have, but GR will have to find better ways to promote it. Denying the obvious facts and trying to elevate a prehistoric village of 300 people to a "civilization" which has given us a "glorious heritage" is obviously something that no educated person will ever take seriously.

Personally I disagree with the belief that GR has, that if we created some new identity that this would solve the problem. First of all, changing the identity of the whole population is something extremely difficult and needs a lot more than myths about "Glorious Chirokitian Civilization". Most importantly by attempting to do such thing we would be alienating the rest of the Greeks and isolate ourselves even further. Even worst, such attempt will not work with most TCs, since what people care about is their own interests, and not the labels. If TCs by maintaining their Turkishness can have a lot more power, land and privileges, then be sure they will not give up their Turkishness and the gains (on our expense) that come with it.

Cyprus is not the only multi-ethic country in the world. Therefore being multi-ethnic is not the cause of the problem (otherwise all other multi-ethnic countries would have the same problems). Ethnicity was simply used by foreign Imperialists by granting privileges to a minority of the population and in this way turn it against the majority - the usual recipe for divide and rule.

Therefore for any solution to the Cyprus problem to be found the first (and extremely difficult) step is to end the influence of these Imperialists. If/when that happens we could concentrate on the many things that unite us, but we should also respect our different language, religion etc, and in this way we can have a normal democratic multi-ethnic nation where all citizens can be different but equal.

And in addition we must emphasize that one of the two main poles of G/cs failure in their policies after 1960 was this trial of some clever (like GR) to change with theories and myths the Ethnicity of the Greeks of Cyprus. This trial, together with the acts of fanatics and facists created the confusion and wrong policies by all parties concerned.

We have a clear and crystal Ethnicity and only the enemies have benefits of fighting this fact.(Proves are front of us).

The classical trick of these NEO CYPRIOTS is to confuse people by presenting any Hellenic route of G/cs equal to Junta and fascism.
Someone must explain them that people like Sampson and his followers can not have the right to represent Hellenism in Cyprus and real Hellines of the Island have not any relation with the acts against the existance of our state ,despite from where these acts are coming from!!!

I think you and Oracle might be the last "samurai" riding into the gunfire of our own people. You have made such a great of of convincing others that anything evil you do is not associated with Hellenism that you are excluding more and more of your people and forcing them to look to the past and see who they really were, EOKA A then EOKA B.

Zan, firstly i want to tell you that i have not the courage to be a "samurai".
Secondly-if you go through my posts you will realize that i refer in very rare cases to T/cs and Turks since i am focusing on our side's mistakes and problematic policies. This is just because i consider the danger of wrong understanding of situation of G/cs much more dangerous about our existance than negotiations with a winner of war which will not of course guide to a fair solution but only to a surrender agreement.At least the last is clear in my mind and it should be cleared to all G/cs.

You know what that sounds like to me......" I only make the bombs. I do not drop them. I also want to make sure that they are designed to kill the most possible Turks when they are dropped. It's my job and I want to make sure I do it well".

Neither EOKA or EOKA B were formed to go up against the
TC minority in Cyprus, your facts are worthless.

They were formed to destroy the island and its people.

[Oracle]

You are right Lit. As I said in another thread the position of GR is politically motivated an not based on any true historical facts.

He decided that if we change our identity and create a new kind of identity which will be free from the Greek-Turkish rivalry, that this will unite all Cypriots and solve the Cyprus problem. This is not an unreasonable belief to have, but GR will have to find better ways to promote it. Denying the obvious facts and trying to elevate a prehistoric village of 300 people to a "civilization" which has given us a "glorious heritage" is obviously something that no educated person will ever take seriously.

Personally I disagree with the belief that GR has, that if we created some new identity that this would solve the problem. First of all, changing the identity of the whole population is something extremely difficult and needs a lot more than myths about "Glorious Chirokitian Civilization". Most importantly by attempting to do such thing we would be alienating the rest of the Greeks and isolate ourselves even further. Even worst, such attempt will not work with most TCs, since what people care about is their own interests, and not the labels. If TCs by maintaining their Turkishness can have a lot more power, land and privileges, then be sure they will not give up their Turkishness and the gains (on our expense) that come with it.

Cyprus is not the only multi-ethic country in the world. Therefore being multi-ethnic is not the cause of the problem (otherwise all other multi-ethnic countries would have the same problems). Ethnicity was simply used by foreign Imperialists by granting privileges to a minority of the population and in this way turn it against the majority - the usual recipe for divide and rule.

Therefore for any solution to the Cyprus problem to be found the first (and extremely difficult) step is to end the influence of these Imperialists. If/when that happens we could concentrate on the many things that unite us, but we should also respect our different language, religion etc, and in this way we can have a normal democratic multi-ethnic nation where all citizens can be different but equal.

And in addition we must emphasize that one of the two main poles of G/cs failure in their policies after 1960 was this trial of some clever (like GR) to change with theories and myths the Ethnicity of the Greeks of Cyprus. This trial, together with the acts of fanatics and facists created the confusion and wrong policies by all parties concerned.

We have a clear and crystal Ethnicity and only the enemies have benefits of fighting this fact.(Proves are front of us).

The classical trick of these NEO CYPRIOTS is to confuse people by presenting any Hellenic route of G/cs equal to Junta and fascism.
Someone must explain them that people like Sampson and his followers can not have the right to represent Hellenism in Cyprus and real Hellines of the Island have not any relation with the acts against the existance of our state ,despite from where these acts are coming from!!!

I think you and Oracle might be the last "samurai" riding into the gunfire of our own people. You have made such a great of of convincing others that anything evil you do is not associated with Hellenism that you are excluding more and more of your people and forcing them to look to the past and see who they really were, EOKA A then EOKA B.

Zan, firstly i want to tell you that i have not the courage to be a "samurai".
Secondly-if you go through my posts you will realize that i refer in very rare cases to T/cs and Turks since i am focusing on our side's mistakes and problematic policies. This is just because i consider the danger of wrong understanding of situation of G/cs much more dangerous about our existance than negotiations with a winner of war which will not of course guide to a fair solution but only to a surrender agreement.At least the last is clear in my mind and it should be cleared to all G/cs.

You know what that sounds like to me......" I only make the bombs. I do not drop them. I also want to make sure that they are designed to kill the most possible Turks when they are dropped. It's my job and I want to make sure I do it well".

Neither EOKA or EOKA B were formed to go up against the
TC minority in Cyprus, your facts are worthless.

They were formed to destroy the island and its people.

Were the colonialist Brits "its people"? Were the murderous TMT "its people"?