Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

It wasn't only GCs left wing, but the majority of the GCs that were against the coup. You think they would have wiped them all out? Turkey itself proposed double enosis. Its sole aim was partition from day one. Do you want me to give you the history of Taksim?

Greece violates minorities? The Muslim minority in Greece has grown and prospered, what has happened to the Greek minority in Turkey? You tell us. The reason Greece does not call them Turkish is because the Muslim minority are not only Turkish and perhaps because Greece is worried about TURKISH EXPANSIONISM. Look how they behave in Cyprus, and they already threaten Greece in the Aegean. So what do you expect with an aggressive neighbour?

You need to go back to school. Whether you want to be a minority or not is irrelevant, 18% is a minority. I don't want to grow old but unfortunately it is a fact that I will.

Simon, there were 2 poles in the then GC community. Left wing and right wing. Enosis or having relations with Junta regime were not in interests of GC left wing. On the other hand GC right wing had no problems with Junta and neither Junta had any problems with GC right wing because all right wing of GCs were nationalists. They were harmless for Junta and they were politically supporting Junta's actions because they too didn't want a left wing dominated Cyprus. Moreover, it wouldn't be irrational to claim that the NG youngsters under command of Greek officers were overwhelmingly the children of GC right wingers. Even NG was divided to 2 as Makarios supporters and NG under command of Greek officers.

It is a fact that there r 1000s of cases and resolutions related with of human rights violations of Turkish, muslim, Macedonian and Roman minorities of Greece.

I don't deny human rights violations of Greek and other minorities in Turkey but in our case it's not Turkey that want GCs to accept minority status in Cyprus.

in our case it's not Turkey that want GCs to accept minority status in Cyprus

In your caseits Turkey thats trying to convince the world that GC's never existed in Kyrenia and Morphou and that the occupied areas are a Turkish country.

[The Cypriot]

It is tenuous because the parallels are weak and not really applicable.

I'd ask you to expand on this, Simon but I can't be bothered to argue with you. I believe my analogy was a valid one and hope other independent thinkers would have been able to appreciate it.

All the above are variations of Greek except the Romans, although the eastern part of the Roman Empire was heavily influenced by Greek culture. Hence the later Byzantine Empire was largely Greek and Cyprus maintained its Greek culture.

As you wish. None of them however, apart from the Junta, would have flown the flag of modern Greece though, which you seem to be so vehemently attached to.

The majority of the north are Turkish settlers and most TCs still regard the Turkish military as their saviour. Most TCs prefer partition. Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Most of them now wouldn't even accept the Annan Plan. Enosis is dead, the junta has gone, the RoC is in the EU, no TCs were attacked in 1974 until the invasion, there is nothing to fear today. TCs cross into the south everyday with hardly any incidents. I see it as a simple excuse to keep what they have stolen or demand extra special rights during negotiations so Turkey maintains its strategic influence.

On this I'm willing to concede. But surely those who side with the invader, relinquish their right to be Cypriot, and to negotiate a solution BY and FOR Cypriots. And the world can see this.

More wishful thinking in my opinion.

I certainly wish you'd stop with your patronising.... It seems to be a disease prevalent amongst many who put a prefix before their Cypriotness.

If that is the case, we wouldn't be seeing loose confederation proposals from them and guaranteeing Turkish intervention rights, oops I forgot, they only do what Turkey tells them to.

Again, I don't disagree. But is our argument made any stronger by going all "Greek" on them. We must stand firm on a solution BY and FOR Cypriots...

Turkey had been planning to invade years before 1974, and was just looking for a pretext. Granted, the junta gave them one, but they were going to invade eventually anyway. Especially once the TCs went into enclaves. Taksim was established Turkish policy well before 1974.

I don't disagree. But is our argument made any stronger by going all "Greek" on them.

Hold on, are you suggesting TCs will take up arms against Turkey? NOW THAT IS WISHFUL THINKING.

Bareda me, Simo! Sometimes freedom has to be fought for. It depends whether the freedom on offer is worth fighting for.

I praise you The Cypriot because you are an idealist, but I think you're way off the mark.

Thanks, Simo. And so was Martin Luther King.... and the last time I looked there was a BLACK man in the WHITE House.

[Oracle]

Thanks, Simo. And so was Martin Luther King.... and the last time I looked there was a BLACK man in the WHITE House.

Make sure you know who the enemy is ... MLK had but one ... you have chosen two!

[insan]

I believe that this is simply wishful thinking. The majority of the north are Turkish settlers and most TCs still regard the Turkish military as their saviour. Most TCs prefer partition. Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Most of them now wouldn't even accept the Annan Plan. Enosis is dead, the junta has gone, the RoC is in the EU, no TCs were attacked in 1974 until the invasion, there is nothing to fear today. TCs cross into the south everyday with hardly any incidents. I see it as a simple excuse to keep what they have stolen or demand extra special rights during negotiations so Turkey maintains its strategic influence.

You say no TCs were attacked in 1974.. True. Because first target of coupists was GC left wing. GC left wing was against the existence of extreme Greek and GC elements. Do u think TCs and Turkey were in love with extreme Greek and GC elements? Could Sampson and Junta be a trustworthy element for TCs and Turks? Sooner or later TCs and Turdyk would fight with National guard under Junta control and irregulars of EOKA-B. Expecting the otherwise is too ridiculous.

It's been 32 years that Greece has no Junta and in EU but still violates the rights of minorities and oppress them.

Even if GCs were angels we would still not want to be a minority in Cyprus. Since the unilateral annexation of Cyprus to Brits, TCs believe and struggle for at least to be accepted as a politically equal entity in Cyprus. The second option for us is a seperate TC state not accepting to be a minority.

... but you are a small minority!

U signed that TCs r an entity that seperate and sovereign from GCs. TCs only care abt those GCs who consider TCs as a politically equal entity in Cyprus.

[DT.]

I believe that this is simply wishful thinking. The majority of the north are Turkish settlers and most TCs still regard the Turkish military as their saviour. Most TCs prefer partition. Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Most of them now wouldn't even accept the Annan Plan. Enosis is dead, the junta has gone, the RoC is in the EU, no TCs were attacked in 1974 until the invasion, there is nothing to fear today. TCs cross into the south everyday with hardly any incidents. I see it as a simple excuse to keep what they have stolen or demand extra special rights during negotiations so Turkey maintains its strategic influence.

You say no TCs were attacked in 1974.. True. Because first target of coupists was GC left wing. GC left wing was against the existence of extreme Greek and GC elements. Do u think TCs and Turkey were in love with extreme Greek and GC elements? Could Sampson and Junta be a trustworthy element for TCs and Turks? Sooner or later TCs and Turdyk would fight with National guard under Junta control and irregulars of EOKA-B. Expecting the otherwise is too ridiculous.

It's been 32 years that Greece has no Junta and in EU but still violates the rights of minorities and oppress them.

Even if GCs were angels we would still not want to be a minority in Cyprus. Since the unilateral annexation of Cyprus to Brits, TCs believe and struggle for at least to be accepted as a politically equal entity in Cyprus. The second option for us is a seperate TC state not accepting to be a minority.

... but you are a small minority!

U signed that TCs r an entity that seperate and sovereign from GCs. TCs only care abt those GCs who consider TCs as a politically equal entity in Cyprus.

Show me were we signed that the TC's are separate and SOVEREIGN ?

[The Cypriot]

Make sure you know who the enemy is ... MLK had but one ... you have chosen two!

Not always sure what you're talking about, O. MLK's enemy was intolerance. So is mine.

[insan]

I believe that this is simply wishful thinking. The majority of the north are Turkish settlers and most TCs still regard the Turkish military as their saviour. Most TCs prefer partition. Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Most of them now wouldn't even accept the Annan Plan. Enosis is dead, the junta has gone, the RoC is in the EU, no TCs were attacked in 1974 until the invasion, there is nothing to fear today. TCs cross into the south everyday with hardly any incidents. I see it as a simple excuse to keep what they have stolen or demand extra special rights during negotiations so Turkey maintains its strategic influence.

You say no TCs were attacked in 1974.. True. Because first target of coupists was GC left wing. GC left wing was against the existence of extreme Greek and GC elements. Do u think TCs and Turkey were in love with extreme Greek and GC elements? Could Sampson and Junta be a trustworthy element for TCs and Turks? Sooner or later TCs and Turdyk would fight with National guard under Junta control and irregulars of EOKA-B. Expecting the otherwise is too ridiculous.

It's been 32 years that Greece has no Junta and in EU but still violates the rights of minorities and oppress them.

Even if GCs were angels we would still not want to be a minority in Cyprus. Since the unilateral annexation of Cyprus to Brits, TCs believe and struggle for at least to be accepted as a politically equal entity in Cyprus. The second option for us is a seperate TC state not accepting to be a minority.

... but you are a small minority!

U signed that TCs r an entity that seperate and sovereign from GCs. TCs only care abt those GCs who consider TCs as a politically equal entity in Cyprus.

Show me were we signed that the TC's are separate and SOVEREIGN ?

I meant Bill C and his alikes. TCs really don't care abt the mentality Bill C and alikes have. Though i long ago was always aware that vast majority of GC have such a mentality which consider TCs as a minority. Majority of TCs, especially ordinary TCs that don't know much abt the essential of Cyprus problem and not involved much in politics; were not aware of this reality until recently. The latest polls show that they too becoming aware of this reality and they begin focusing on 2 seperate states.

[Simon]

[quote]I'd ask you to expand on this, Simon but I can't be bothered to argue with you. I believe my analogy was a valid one and hope other independent thinkers would have been able to appreciate it. [/quote]


I'd ask you to do a bit of research then because I can't be bothered to educate you.


[quote]As you wish. None of them however, apart from the Junta, would have flown the flag of modern Greece though, which you seem to be so vehemently attached to. [/quote]


Irrelevant.


[quote]On this I'm willing to concede. But surely those who side with the invader, relinquish their right to be Cypriot, and to negotiate a solution BY and FOR Cypriots. And the world can see this.[/quote]


Agreed, although sometimes the world chooses to close its eyes.


[quote]I certainly wish you'd stop with your patronising.... It seems to be a disease prevalent amongst many who put a prefix before their Cypriotness. [/quote]


Not patronising, it is a opinion based on the realities that I see. If you believe a differing opinion to yours is patronising, then that's your problem.


[quote]Again, I don't disagree. But is our argument made any stronger by going all "Greek" on them. We must stand firm on a solution BY and FOR Cypriots... [/quote]


But who is going Greek on them? We are ethnically Greek (at least most of us; it's written in our constitution) and I'm not going to deny my heritage for them. It is them going all Turkish on us, by taking the north, purging it of everything Greek and calling it a Turkish republic.


[quote]Bareda me, Simo! Sometimes freedom has to be fought for. It depends whether the freedom on offer is worth fighting for. [/quote]


I agree, I actually started a thread arguing exactly that. I'm laughing because you think the TCs will fight Turkey. You obviously do not understand this problem.


[quote]Thanks, Simo. And so was Martin Luther King.... and the last time I looked there was a BLACK man in the WHITE House.[/quote]


Yes, but Dr King understood the challenges that he faced. You obviously do not.

[DT.]

I believe that this is simply wishful thinking. The majority of the north are Turkish settlers and most TCs still regard the Turkish military as their saviour. Most TCs prefer partition. Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Most of them now wouldn't even accept the Annan Plan. Enosis is dead, the junta has gone, the RoC is in the EU, no TCs were attacked in 1974 until the invasion, there is nothing to fear today. TCs cross into the south everyday with hardly any incidents. I see it as a simple excuse to keep what they have stolen or demand extra special rights during negotiations so Turkey maintains its strategic influence.

You say no TCs were attacked in 1974.. True. Because first target of coupists was GC left wing. GC left wing was against the existence of extreme Greek and GC elements. Do u think TCs and Turkey were in love with extreme Greek and GC elements? Could Sampson and Junta be a trustworthy element for TCs and Turks? Sooner or later TCs and Turdyk would fight with National guard under Junta control and irregulars of EOKA-B. Expecting the otherwise is too ridiculous.

It's been 32 years that Greece has no Junta and in EU but still violates the rights of minorities and oppress them.

Even if GCs were angels we would still not want to be a minority in Cyprus. Since the unilateral annexation of Cyprus to Brits, TCs believe and struggle for at least to be accepted as a politically equal entity in Cyprus. The second option for us is a seperate TC state not accepting to be a minority.

... but you are a small minority!

U signed that TCs r an entity that seperate and sovereign from GCs. TCs only care abt those GCs who consider TCs as a politically equal entity in Cyprus.

Show me were we signed that the TC's are separate and SOVEREIGN ?

I meant Bill C and his alikes. TCs really don't care abt the mentality Bill C and alikes have. Though i long ago was always aware that vast majority of GC have such a mentality which consider TCs as a minority. Majority of TCs, especially ordinary TCs that don't know much abt the essential of Cyprus problem and not involved much in politics; were not aware of this reality until recently. The latest polls show that they too becoming aware of this reality and they begin focusing on 2 seperate states.

sorry what does this have to do with what you claimed? Here's the question again.

Show me were we signed that the TC's are separate and SOVEREIGN ?

[Oracle]

Make sure you know who the enemy is ... MLK had but one ... you have chosen two!

Not always sure what you're talking about, O. MLK's enemy was intolerance. So is mine.

You don't seem to be very tolerant of the majorities' wish to be associated with "Greekness".