Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

The Cypriot,

Your comparison with Britain is tenuous to say the least. The history of the anglo-saxons in Britain and the Greeks in Cyprus is completely different. There are different influences in Cyprus of course, the overwhelming one being Greek. The Greek Cypriots must unite to eject Turkey out of Cyprus. All this in fighting just proves how stupid we actually are. Do you hear any equivalent from the Turkish Cypriots? No, of course not. Greek Cypriots want to tell their closest ally and friend that they are a "nuisance", whilst Turkish Cypriots worship their closest friend everyday. We wonder why we have come off second best so far...

Do all of you really think that if we self-declared our "Cypriotness" and removed any traces of Greek from our island (which itself is an oxymoron) Turkey will relinquish its control on a strategically important area? Do you really think Turkey invaded just because of the junta's coup? If so, Turkey has not only invaded our lands, it has invaded and raped your minds. You are thinking exactly how it wants you to. Naive to say the least.

Throughout the history, super powers of the world have had interests on Cyprus and they still have untill at least "one world government" achieved. Like it or not, struggle against it like a Don Quixote or not; this is the absolute reality. Even if it is relative reality according to political ideologies and ethnic origin of 2 communities, respectively; in the end they all lead to the same point. Hellenes look for support to solve the Cyprus problem based on their own solution thesis and Turks vice versa...

Had there been 650 Turkish troops, 17.000 TC troops and 70-80 thousands of TC reservists in TRNC would the problem has been solved? No.

Turkey didn't invade Cyprus. Greek Junta with help of GC supporters attempted to take full control of Cyprus and declare Enosis with a fait accompli. Turkey intervened, 40.000 of Hellenic forces combatted against Turkish intervention forces and the then environment became more hostile.

Even after the second phase of Turkish intervention, chaotic situation was still going on in South. Irregulars of EOKA-B didn't want to surrender to the so-called new authoriy of RoC. Under such a circumstance, Bi-Zonality and exchange of populations had become a stronger belief on TCs, Turkey and international community and as a consequence of the then circumstances this happened.

It is true that Turkey has interests on Cyprus just like all other world powers have interests on Cyprus. This does not mean they don't care abt TC existence in Cyprus. Only a small minority of TC far left has problems with Turkey or Turkish troops and in my opinion what TC far left struggle for is an utopic, unrealistic ideal.

It is clearly seen that there r 3 possibilities to solve the problem. The strongest possibility is agreed partition, the second possibility is a united Cyprus that legislative and judicial powers shared on 50/50 basis and continuation of Turkey's guarantorship and the third and the weakest possibility is TC's acceptance of minority status.

Looks like it'll have to be the third one then.

[Simon]

Whether we are heading towards one world government or not (which I think is rubbish) it hardly excuses Turkey's expansionist designs on Cyprus. If one world government is established, it will be done so by consent and democratic means, not force. Otherwise, what you are arguing is for a world empire. Not a Nazi by any chance are you?


[quote]Had there been 650 Turkish troops, 17.000 TC troops and 70-80 thousands of TC reservists in TRNC would the problem has been solved? No.

Insan wrote:

[quote]Turkey didn't invade Cyprus. Greek Junta with help of GC supporters attempted to take full control of Cyprus and declare Enosis with a fait accompli. Turkey intervened, 40.000 of Hellenic forces combatted against Turkish intervention forces and the then environment became more hostile. [/quote]
Even after the second phase of Turkish intervention, chaotic situation was still going on in South. Irregulars of EOKA-B didn't want to surrender to the so-called new authoriy of RoC. Under such a circumstance, Bi-Zonality and exchange of populations had become a stronger belief on TCs, Turkey and international community and as a consequence of the then circumstances this happened. [/quote]

All this is pure Turkish propaganda. The majority of GCs were against the coup and Makarios was not killed. Therefore, it is very unlikely the coup would have succeeded in any event. Turkey invaded with the sole intention of dividing Cyprus and creating a "Turkish North". They were dropping bombs on GCs heads! Are you telling me Taksim only began in 1974? Do me a favour! A ceasefire was agreed, and the second phase of the invasion breached it, removing many more from their homes and taking more land which Turkey intended using as a bargaining chip. Why bring thousands of Turkish settlers over to fill the stolen land? I will tell you why, because their plan was ALWAYS to create a Turkish state in Cyprus. It is pure expansionism. Indeed, various declassified documents now PROVE this!

[insan]

I believe that this is simply wishful thinking. The majority of the north are Turkish settlers and most TCs still regard the Turkish military as their saviour. Most TCs prefer partition. Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Most of them now wouldn't even accept the Annan Plan. Enosis is dead, the junta has gone, the RoC is in the EU, no TCs were attacked in 1974 until the invasion, there is nothing to fear today. TCs cross into the south everyday with hardly any incidents. I see it as a simple excuse to keep what they have stolen or demand extra special rights during negotiations so Turkey maintains its strategic influence.

You say no TCs were attacked in 1974.. True. Because first target of coupists was GC left wing. GC left wing was against the existence of extreme Greek and GC elements. Do u think TCs and Turkey were in love with extreme Greek and GC elements? Could Sampson and Junta be a trustworthy element for TCs and Turks? Sooner or later TCs and Turdyk would fight with National guard under Junta control and irregulars of EOKA-B. Expecting the otherwise is too ridiculous.

It's been 32 years that Greece has no Junta and in EU but still violates the rights of minorities and oppress them.

Even if GCs were angels we would still not want to be a minority in Cyprus. Since the unilateral annexation of Cyprus to Brits, TCs believe and struggle for at least to be accepted as a politically equal entity in Cyprus. The second option for us is a seperate TC state not accepting to be a minority.

[bill cobbett]

I believe that this is simply wishful thinking. The majority of the north are Turkish settlers and most TCs still regard the Turkish military as their saviour. Most TCs prefer partition. Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Most of them now wouldn't even accept the Annan Plan. Enosis is dead, the junta has gone, the RoC is in the EU, no TCs were attacked in 1974 until the invasion, there is nothing to fear today. TCs cross into the south everyday with hardly any incidents. I see it as a simple excuse to keep what they have stolen or demand extra special rights during negotiations so Turkey maintains its strategic influence.

You say no TCs were attacked in 1974.. True. Because first target of coupists was GC left wing. GC left wing was against the existence of extreme Greek and GC elements. Do u think TCs and Turkey were in love with extreme Greek and GC elements? Could Sampson and Junta be a trustworthy element for TCs and Turks? Sooner or later TCs and Turdyk would fight with National guard under Junta control and irregulars of EOKA-B. Expecting the otherwise is too ridiculous.

It's been 32 years that Greece has no Junta and in EU but still violates the rights of minorities and oppress them.

Even if GCs were angels we would still not want to be a minority in Cyprus. Since the unilateral annexation of Cyprus to Brits, TCs believe and struggle for at least to be accepted as a politically equal entity in Cyprus. The second option for us is a seperate TC state not accepting to be a minority.

... but you are a small minority!

[Lit]

Actually, that Brits stem from the Anglo-Saxons is FACT, but that Cypriots are ”Greeks” is MYTHOLOGY!

Actually, GR, not totally true of the north Welsh, Highland Scots and Cornish who are more Celt, Geordies, who have traces of Viking and Celt, and down south, where there are traces of Norman.

Actually your both wrong. Nothing new there. Why are you excluding countless of millions of British citizens whos origins aren't any of these that you talk of above?

[Simon]

It wasn't only GCs left wing, but the majority of the GCs that were against the coup. You think they would have wiped them all out? Turkey itself proposed double enosis. Its sole aim was partition from day one. Do you want me to give you the history of Taksim?

Greece violates minorities? The Muslim minority in Greece has grown and prospered, what has happened to the Greek minority in Turkey? You tell us. The reason Greece does not call them Turkish is because the Muslim minority are not only Turkish and perhaps because Greece is worried about TURKISH EXPANSIONISM. Look how they behave in Cyprus, and they already threaten Greece in the Aegean. So what do you expect with an aggressive neighbour?

You need to go back to school. Whether you want to be a minority or not is irrelevant, 18% is a minority. I don't want to grow old but unfortunately it is a fact that I will.

[insan]

The Cypriot,

Your comparison with Britain is tenuous to say the least. The history of the anglo-saxons in Britain and the Greeks in Cyprus is completely different. There are different influences in Cyprus of course, the overwhelming one being Greek. The Greek Cypriots must unite to eject Turkey out of Cyprus. All this in fighting just proves how stupid we actually are. Do you hear any equivalent from the Turkish Cypriots? No, of course not. Greek Cypriots want to tell their closest ally and friend that they are a "nuisance", whilst Turkish Cypriots worship their closest friend everyday. We wonder why we have come off second best so far...

Do all of you really think that if we self-declared our "Cypriotness" and removed any traces of Greek from our island (which itself is an oxymoron) Turkey will relinquish its control on a strategically important area? Do you really think Turkey invaded just because of the junta's coup? If so, Turkey has not only invaded our lands, it has invaded and raped your minds. You are thinking exactly how it wants you to. Naive to say the least.

Throughout the history, super powers of the world have had interests on Cyprus and they still have untill at least "one world government" achieved. Like it or not, struggle against it like a Don Quixote or not; this is the absolute reality. Even if it is relative reality according to political ideologies and ethnic origin of 2 communities, respectively; in the end they all lead to the same point. Hellenes look for support to solve the Cyprus problem based on their own solution thesis and Turks vice versa...

Had there been 650 Turkish troops, 17.000 TC troops and 70-80 thousands of TC reservists in TRNC would the problem has been solved? No.

Turkey didn't invade Cyprus. Greek Junta with help of GC supporters attempted to take full control of Cyprus and declare Enosis with a fait accompli. Turkey intervened, 40.000 of Hellenic forces combatted against Turkish intervention forces and the then environment became more hostile.

Even after the second phase of Turkish intervention, chaotic situation was still going on in South. Irregulars of EOKA-B didn't want to surrender to the so-called new authoriy of RoC. Under such a circumstance, Bi-Zonality and exchange of populations had become a stronger belief on TCs, Turkey and international community and as a consequence of the then circumstances this happened.

It is true that Turkey has interests on Cyprus just like all other world powers have interests on Cyprus. This does not mean they don't care abt TC existence in Cyprus. Only a small minority of TC far left has problems with Turkey or Turkish troops and in my opinion what TC far left struggle for is an utopic, unrealistic ideal.

It is clearly seen that there r 3 possibilities to solve the problem. The strongest possibility is agreed partition, the second possibility is a united Cyprus that legislative and judicial powers shared on 50/50 basis and continuation of Turkey's guarantorship and the third and the weakest possibility is TC's acceptance of minority status.

Looks like it'll have to be the third one then.

We know that u equalize the partition and sharing power on 50/50 basis but they r not really same. I'm honestly talking I really would like Hellenes and Turks reconcile and have strong bilateral relations based on genuine friendship but as some of the ex-Ottoman subjects Hellenes(Mostly extreme nationalists and nationalists) have a deep hatred towards Turks not only because of Ottomans but since Attila.

Under the current circumstances the problem seems cureless. Neither forcing GC to accept political equality of TC nor forcing TCs to accept minority status work.

Final efforts r given to find a just solution that would satisfy at least simple majority of both communities respectively. If not succedeed, the only option will remain to discuss and that is partition.

[Oracle]

Actually, that Brits stem from the Anglo-Saxons is FACT, but that Cypriots are ”Greeks” is MYTHOLOGY!

Prime example of the first to crumble under Turkish brainwashing ....

The Brits did not stem from the Anglo-Saxons. The Brits were Brits, and some Anglo-Saxon invaders were assimilated.

History is not your strong point GR!, so kindly stick to which missile you want to sleep with, under your bed!

[insan]

It wasn't only GCs left wing, but the majority of the GCs that were against the coup. You think they would have wiped them all out? Turkey itself proposed double enosis. Its sole aim was partition from day one. Do you want me to give you the history of Taksim?

Greece violates minorities? The Muslim minority in Greece has grown and prospered, what has happened to the Greek minority in Turkey? You tell us. The reason Greece does not call them Turkish is because the Muslim minority are not only Turkish and perhaps because Greece is worried about TURKISH EXPANSIONISM. Look how they behave in Cyprus, and they already threaten Greece in the Aegean. So what do you expect with an aggressive neighbour?

You need to go back to school. Whether you want to be a minority or not is irrelevant, 18% is a minority. I don't want to grow old but unfortunately it is a fact that I will.

Simon, there were 2 poles in the then GC community. Left wing and right wing. Enosis or having relations with Junta regime were not in interests of GC left wing. On the other hand GC right wing had no problems with Junta and neither Junta had any problems with GC right wing because all right wing of GCs were nationalists. They were harmless for Junta and they were politically supporting Junta's actions because they too didn't want a left wing dominated Cyprus. Moreover, it wouldn't be irrational to claim that the NG youngsters under command of Greek officers were overwhelmingly the children of GC right wingers. Even NG was divided to 2 as Makarios supporters and NG under command of Greek officers.

It is a fact that there r 1000s of cases and resolutions related with of human rights violations of Turkish, muslim, Macedonian and Roman minorities of Greece.

I don't deny human rights violations of Greek and other minorities in Turkey but in our case it's not Turkey that want GCs to accept minority status in Cyprus.

[Simon]

Insan, the majority of Greek Cypriots did not support the junta. Some nationalists on the right did, I accept that, but the average man on the street supported Makarios. That is why they voted for him! It is also why he was welcomed back as a hero.

Like I said, Greek minorities are treated far better than Turkish ones. If FYROM and Turkey did not have designs on Greece, they could possibly be treated even better. Greece doesn't call them Turkish, big deal. At least an ethnic cleansing operation wasn't effected, like it was in Turkey.

Turkey wants the Kurds and others to accept minority status in Turkey. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.