Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Cyprus is an entity that is recognized the world over , those amongst us who betray the Cypriot identity are at liberty to do so provided they first declare their allegiance to their perceived foreign motherlands. It is grotesque for anyone to persist in denying our homeland right to be the masters of this island as Cypriots and not Greeks or Turks.

[The Cypriot]

The Celts, Vikings etc were there long before the Anglo-Saxons. So wrong comparison.

It's illustrating a point by analogy. Cyprus is UNIQUE. And I'm proud of that, but it doesn't mean there aren't analogous situations in other parts of the world worth looking at to free us from a mindset that is getting us nowhere.

There were people on Cyprus long before the Arcadians.... never forget (δεν ξεχνω).

And about the new minorities the British had an empire and many of those people citizens of this empire and thats how they got there. Many of them they brought them there themselves as slaves! So wrong comparison.

And many indigenous Cypriots felt compelled to convert to Islam to escape oppression during the arduous years of Ottoman rule. That's how they got to Cyprus. They weren't invaders, they escaped the oppression of the invader by relinquishing their Christian faith. So it's wrong to compare Cypriots in the north with the invaders. Agreed?

And I point out to you that Cypriots are Greek

Speak for yourself, Soto. And I'll speak for myself. And no one, NO ONE, has the right to tell me what I should be so that inadequates can improve their sense of self.

and your attitude puts you in the minority and embarrasses the Cypriot people.

Actually, I doubt that. But as neither of us can prove it either way, we'll have to agree to differ.

Cyprus is not part of Greece for one and only reason.

Cyprus is part of Greece, Soto. And it's also part of the Romans, Franks, Venetians, Brits and all the other western colonisers of the island that are now our equal partners in the EU.

The Turks and British didn't allow to us our freedom. But they are not going to get it their way. We will not stop being Greek just because the invaders want to.

The invaders don't give a shit about what you think you are. They just want to control parts of your homeland for their own ends. The question is, how clever are you to try and stop them?

[Get Real!]

Actually, that Brits stem from the Anglo-Saxons is FACT, but that Cypriots are ”Greeks” is MYTHOLOGY!

[Lit]

If through peaceful means, we Cypriots, acting collectively, intelligently and strategically, are unable to repel the invader, then alternative means will have to be found. I'm certain there are Cypriots in the north who would resort to this if their honest and

LOL

[Lit]

Move over! Simon has something to say:

Turkey has not only invaded our lands, it has invaded and raped your minds.

Powerful words brother. That is indeed the reality.

[Lit]

There is not a single TC here who has so far voted that supports the sovereignty of Cyprus. I can see how that would upset you GR. Your anger at the poll results should not be directed at me. Get a clue already.

It was your poll, your the one who created...do you now see the reality?

What on earth are you on about? Are you by any chance confessing that you voted based on what the TCs voted in vengeance?

I and a few other GCs like DT havent voted and frankly, these 13 GCs seem like a rather large number as i dont think there are 13 GCs who contribute to the Cyprus Problem page. What i am trying to get at is look at how the TCs voted. Not a single one of your TC friends supports the sovereignty of Cyprus. That is the only point i was making.

[The Cypriot]

Actually, that Brits stem from the Anglo-Saxons is FACT, but that Cypriots are ”Greeks” is MYTHOLOGY!

Actually, GR, not totally true of the north Welsh, Highland Scots and Cornish who are more Celt, Geordies, who have traces of Viking and Celt, and down south, where there are traces of Norman.

I don't disagree with the second part of your analysis. But there are deep emotional reasons for this mythological attachment which must be handled with care.

[bill cobbett]

I voted for the first option but under protest as am a very nominal "gc".

Blooming grs and trs.

[Simon]

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]Hardly tenuous. There are certainly parallels, though I concede there are differences too. [/quote]

It is tenuous because the parallels are weak and not really applicable.

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]That may be true, or rather than Greek we could call it a mix of Arcadian, Mycenean, Macedonian, Roman, Byzantine and junta. [/quote]

All the above are variations of Greek except the Romans, although the eastern part of the Roman Empire was heavily influenced by Greek culture. Hence the later Byzantine Empire was largely Greek and Cyprus maintained its Greek culture.

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]All Cypriots must unite to do so. Acting alone won't be enough. [/quote]

If we Greek Cypriots are not united, how can we unite with anybody else? We must sort ourselves out first.

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]Should we stop aiming for what is right because some have yet to see the light? The whole world seems to have figured out that only a solution BY Cypriots, FOR Cypriots can ever work. My guess is most in the north have figured it out too, though fear of Turkey's military (on the one hand), and rabid, vengeful nationalist in the south (on the other), inhibits their thinking and has put them between a rock and a hard place. How would you feel if you were in this position? [/quote]


I believe that this is simply wishful thinking. The majority of the north are Turkish settlers and most TCs still regard the Turkish military as their saviour. Most TCs prefer partition. Have you seen the latest opinion polls? Most of them now wouldn't even accept the Annan Plan. Enosis is dead, the junta has gone, the RoC is in the EU, no TCs were attacked in 1974 until the invasion, there is nothing to fear today. TCs cross into the south everyday with hardly any incidents. I see it as a simple excuse to keep what they have stolen or demand extra special rights during negotiations so Turkey maintains its strategic influence.

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]Where our strategic interests overlap Greece is our ally and friend - where they differ, Greece is not. Greece is a European partner. We should be grateful for that and the invaluable role she played (and indeed Britain through Robin Cook, God rest his soul) in securing this. Greece is our big sister, not our mother. [/quote]


Greece is our closest ally. Greece consistently supports us with our national problem. This is undisputable. Some forum members here would prefer we lost this vital ally (i.e. GR).

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]I'm not sure this is the case. Sure a few rabid mirror-images of our unreconstructed nationalists do, but I expect the majority would rather get on with their lives, in peace and prosperity, and with Turkey's army out of the picture. [/quote]


More wishful thinking in my opinion. If that is the case, we wouldn't be seeing loose confederation proposals from them and guaranteeing Turkish intervention rights, oops I forgot, they only do what Turkey tells them to.

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]Who said we should do that? No traces of the island's rich and unique heritage should be removed. Turkey's military is doing that in the north. And that's anathema to ALL Cypriots. [/quote]

Try Get Real along with some others.

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]Concluding people who take a different world view to you are naive, is... (how can I put this without sounding patronising myself)... naive. And it's no way to win an argument. [/quote]


It is not a world view, it is patently obvious. Turkey had been planning to invade years before 1974, and was just looking for a pretext. Granted, the junta gave them one, but they were going to invade eventually anyway. Especially once the TCs went into enclaves. Taksim was established Turkish policy well before 1974.

The Cypriot wrote:

[quote]If through peaceful means, we Cypriots, acting collectively, intelligently and strategically, are unable to repel the invader, then alternative means will have to be found. I'm certain there are Cypriots in the north who would resort to this if their honest and just quest for freedom goes unrealised. And I'm certain there are Cypriots in the south who would support them.

But this action cannot be contemplated before we've exhausted peaceful means. Until then, the rest of the world, including Greece, won't support us. And we'd lose.[/quote]


Hold on, are you suggesting TCs will take up arms against Turkey? NOW THAT IS WISHFUL THINKING.

I praise you The Cypriot because you are an idealist, but I think you're way off the mark.

[insan]

The Cypriot,

Your comparison with Britain is tenuous to say the least. The history of the anglo-saxons in Britain and the Greeks in Cyprus is completely different. There are different influences in Cyprus of course, the overwhelming one being Greek. The Greek Cypriots must unite to eject Turkey out of Cyprus. All this in fighting just proves how stupid we actually are. Do you hear any equivalent from the Turkish Cypriots? No, of course not. Greek Cypriots want to tell their closest ally and friend that they are a "nuisance", whilst Turkish Cypriots worship their closest friend everyday. We wonder why we have come off second best so far...

Do all of you really think that if we self-declared our "Cypriotness" and removed any traces of Greek from our island (which itself is an oxymoron) Turkey will relinquish its control on a strategically important area? Do you really think Turkey invaded just because of the junta's coup? If so, Turkey has not only invaded our lands, it has invaded and raped your minds. You are thinking exactly how it wants you to. Naive to say the least.

Throughout the history, super powers of the world have had interests on Cyprus and they still have untill at least "one world government" achieved. Like it or not, struggle against it like a Don Quixote or not; this is the absolute reality. Even if it is relative reality according to political ideologies and ethnic origin of 2 communities, respectively; in the end they all lead to the same point. Hellenes look for support to solve the Cyprus problem based on their own solution thesis and Turks vice versa...

Had there been 650 Turkish troops, 17.000 TC troops and 70-80 thousands of TC reservists in TRNC would the problem has been solved? No.

Turkey didn't invade Cyprus. Greek Junta with help of GC supporters attempted to take full control of Cyprus and declare Enosis with a fait accompli. Turkey intervened, 40.000 of Hellenic forces combatted against Turkish intervention forces and the then environment became more hostile.

Even after the second phase of Turkish intervention, chaotic situation was still going on in South. Irregulars of EOKA-B didn't want to surrender to the so-called new authoriy of RoC. Under such a circumstance, Bi-Zonality and exchange of populations had become a stronger belief on TCs, Turkey and international community and as a consequence of the then circumstances this happened.

It is true that Turkey has interests on Cyprus just like all other world powers have interests on Cyprus. This does not mean they don't care abt TC existence in Cyprus. Only a small minority of TC far left has problems with Turkey or Turkish troops and in my opinion what TC far left struggle for is an utopic, unrealistic ideal.

It is clearly seen that there r 3 possibilities to solve the problem. The strongest possibility is agreed partition, the second possibility is a united Cyprus that legislative and judicial powers shared on 50/50 basis and continuation of Turkey's guarantorship and the third and the weakest possibility is TC's acceptance of minority status.