Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

Here's a good article in today's mail:


Let’s not make the same mistake next time
By Alkan Chaglar

WHILE IT is encouraging to see two Cypriot leaders from the same background persevere in the ongoing unity talks, no matter how difficult it may be for both sides, one very important part of the talks is missing – the representation of Cyprus’ minorities. Like the racist constitution of 1960, it is the same old story repeating itself and it seems few have noticed this great injustice.

Greek or Turkish, the choice is yours…

After independence from Britain, almost everything in the 1960 Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus was divided up into ‘Greek’ or ‘Turkish’ categories. To benefit from this racist constitution you had to be either a Greek or a Turk, you could not choose a third option – and certainly not a Cypriot one. For Cyprus minorities, some of whom have lived on the island since antiquity, this meant making difficult choices…

Effectively asked to choose between ‘black’ or ‘white’, the island’s Maronite, Latin and Armenian communities were required to decide which one of the two communities electoral registers they wanted to be registered on, as in Cyprus discriminatory laws ensured that everything was ethnically segregated between the two larger communities.

Because most Maronites, Armenians and Latins spoke Greek better than Turkish, most voted to appear on the Greek Cypriot electoral register. It was practical and just a technicality; it did not mean they preferred one community to the other. Yet in the mindset of many Greek and Turkish Cypriots, this decision they had imposed on the minorities of Cyprus meant that the communities effectively chose assimilation to one community over another.

Even today countless politicians, historians and many journalists in Cyprus and non-Cypriots too often make the same familiar mistake when they claim that the “Maronites, Latins and Armenians belong to the Greek Cypriot community.”

Just how one community can ‘belong’ to another is testimony to the arrogance we Greek and Turkish Cypriots have demonstrated towards the islands non-Greco-Turkish communities who also call Cyprus home.

Size matters

To justify the indefensible, I often hear references to demographics albeit outdated censuses from 1960, or guesstimates. Consequently, since independence, size has become an important aspect of Cypriot politics. The general attitude is that size determines whether you matter or not, whether representation should be afforded to you or not, and who should be delegated to represent you and with what power.

In the Greek Cypriot community, which is still numerically the largest for a long time the Turkish Cypriots were the minority, who at best in the eyes of their past leaders should expect be given some ‘minority rights’ in a Greek state; at the time the Maronites, Latins and Armenians did not even get a look in.

However, times have changed in the Greek Cypriot community and now they have accepted Turkish Cypriots as one of the two main communities to a large degree. Internationally too, the Minority Rights Group does not regard the Turkish Cypriots as a minority in Cyprus. But the island’s Maronite, Latin and Armenian communities have reached this stage; but history is repeating itself...

The general feeling towards the minorities is that they are insignificantly small, consequently they are ignored, are rarely ever consulted and face suspicion on both sides of the island. They have to fight on their own for their own schools and despite the effect of the Cyprus problem on them, they are excluded from any inter-communal talks, even though these talks will determine their future too. Even ‘bi-communal’ activities, which are meant to create a positive atmosphere, often exclude the minorities by their very use of the old-fashioned term ‘bi-communal’.

Demographics

Yet even if we play the population number game, demographics prove the opposite of what our size-conscious compatriots claim. According to the Republic of Cyprus Population Census of 2001, there are 618,455 Greek Cypriots in Cyprus out of a citizenship population of 624,754 and an overall population of 689,000, which includes around 64,000 non-citizens. Non-citizens include Sri Lankans, Indians, Filipinos, Russians, Romanians, Ukrainians and Syrians to name but a few, many of whom have lived in Cyprus for many years, it is their adopted home and will most likely become citizens in the future.

In the north, there is estimated to be 178,031 Turkish Cypriots in northern Cyprus out of a population of 262,000 TRNC citizens. Please note in a settlement around 50,000 minimum of the remaining 83,969 Turks (including Bulgarian Turks), Kurds, Alevis and Alawites would also straight-away become Cypriot citizens, although it is safe to assume that the real number of those allowed to stay and apply for citizenship will probably well exceed 50,000 and will most likely reach 80,000 or more.

If we add the figures of 689,000 (the official population of the RoC) and 262,000 (the official population of the north) to get a rough picture of Cyprus, we get a total population of 951,000. This gives us a real picture of what Cyprus looks like.

The Greek Cypriot percentage becomes 65 per cent and the Turkish Cypriot percentage 18.7 per cent. This figure also does not include mixed marriages within both communities with non-Cypriots (e.g. Irish, English, Australian) whose offspring are automatically regarded as Greek or Turkish Cypriot.

What is interesting here is that the remaining 16.3 per cent belong to and is shared between the Maronite, Alawite, Alevi, Kurdish, Pontian, Armenian, Russian, Indian, Sri Lankan, Filipino, Latin, Romanian, Ukrainian and Syrian communities, not to mention the British expats. Quite significant some might say.

Looking at this diversity, it appears that Cyprus is not only a cultural mosaic, but also perhaps one of the most multicultural and multi-faith countries in Europe. It is a pity few Cypriots realise it…

Reality

Sadly, the attitude of the Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities does not reflect this reality. We hear non-stop emphasis in the media on Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders agreeing or disagreeing to plan A or plan B, but despite the unquestionable good will of Mehmet Ali Talat and Demetris Christiofias who have shown tremendous perseverance, they must not lose sight of the multicultural reality of Cyprus, and rather than press for a Greco-Turkish settlement must ensure that the old and new minorities are represented.

If both leaders think as Greek or Turkish Cypriots and act like lawyers for both, then who will represent the interests of the 16.3 per cent of Cypriots and future Cypriots who are not Greek or Turkish Cypriots? Should they each elect their own leaders?

Surely, having 15 more community leaders around a table would be a messy and unworkable process indeed. Or alternatively, should our leaders go the extra mile and not leave this error for future generations to iron out, by basing their talks on the reality of what Cyprus is, will be and what it has always been: a multicultural, multi-faith country? It is just a thought.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2009

[The Cypriot]

The Cypriot,

Cypriots are as Greek as any other Greek.

Hi Pirati. I welcome the opportunity to joust with you. Last time I looked we Cypriots had our own seat at the EU. That makes us different. And would you want to give up that seat, and it's associated veto right, to become another Greek backwater?

You talked about analogous examples earlier on. What more analogous in the case of Cyprus than the other Greek islands. Take Crete or Rhodes for example. How much do they differ from Cyprus?

They are part of modern mainland Greece. Cyprus is not. Cyprus has its own seat at the EU, with associated veto rights on Turkey's accession.

They even had more or less the same rulers, and they also had Turkish/Muslim minorities on them due to the fact they have also been under Ottoman rule.

I don't disagree.

If Cypriots were allowed their self-determination then today Cyprus would be part of the Greek state like most other Greek islands, similar to how Rhodes united with Greece in 1947.

But I don't believe that's what you want for Cypriots in 2009. Or do you?

If you disagree with me, then please tell me why Cretans or Rhodians are Greeks and Cypriots are not. I will wait for your detailed explanation.

You don't need a detailed explanation. Cretans and Rhodians, whether they like it or not, are part of modern Greece. Cypriots, whether they like it or not, are not.

Moving forward, lets examine if it is for our interest to change our identity

Who said anything about changing? Acknowledging our true identity is what I'm talking about. Maybe Cretans and Rhodians don't have that opportunity, as we do, as they've been subsumed by modern Greece.

to something else, e.i. "just Cypriot", and if this can help us. Personally I don't see how this can help in any way. Turkey cares to serve her own geopolitical interests, and how we call ourselves will not change this even the slightest.

Perhaps you're right. I realise Turkey has its own geopolitical interests, as has modern Greece. I think our cause is best served by trying to find ways to work together with all Cypriots, for our island's interest.[/quote]

When it comes to the TCs, it will again make no difference if they are an ethnic (Turkish) minority , or a linguistic (Turkish speaking) and religious(Muslim) minority. Either way they will continue to collaborate with Turkey in order to get a lot more than what belongs to an 18% minority, on our expense.

You may be right. But we must try. I have met a number of Cypriots from the north who think as Cypriots - as I do, as I wish you did.

So we can gain absolutely nothing from doing such thing. On the contrary we have a lot to lose:

I disagree, Pirati.

It is the Turks and the British who started the propaganda that supposedly Cypriots are not Greeks, to use this as an excuse for denying to Cypriots their right to unite their island with Greece.

But is that what you want, Pirati? In 2009, and with Cyprus safely in the EU? Union with Greece?

If we now accept their lame allegations we would be justifying the actions they took to oppress the Cypriot revolution and deny to the Cypriot people their self-determination.

As Cypriots, with our own seat at the EU and UN, we have more chance of self-determination than if we were a backwater of modern Greece.

Also, we would alienate the rest of Greeks even more, and help the Turks to isolate us even further.

I don't think we would alienate Greeks. I think they'd respect us, admire us, envy us even, for being able to stand on our own two feet. (Especially the Cretans and the Rhodians). I've met many Greeks and they love Cyprus's unique culture, our food, the way we speak. The Turks can't isolate us now. We're in the EU, we have enosis with the whole of Europe. On our terms.

So there is no reason to change who we are, because doing so can only help the Turks and not us.

We would not be helping the Turks, and by Turks I mean people from Turkey. We would be helping ourselves. And I'm not taking about changing who we are. We are who we are. We are Cypriots.

[miltiades]

Where have you been since Jan 2006 ? We need Cypriots such as you to blow our own unique trumpet , the Cypriot one.
Why on earth should we be "embarrassed" at being what we are , what the entire world sees us as CYPRIOTS.Nobody is denying the T/Cs , G/Cs , Armenian , Maronite or British Cypriots the right to be them selves . We must be proud of the "term" Cypriot above all else just as I and thousands of other genuine true Cypriots.

[Paphitis]

Back on topic please!

This debate is not about the fact that all Cypriots should place their Cypriot nationality above all else. All Greek Cypriots are loyal to Cyprus first and foremost, but at the same time the overwhelming majority of Cypriots identify themselves as ethnically Greek.

What some members are actually saying is that Cypriots who identify themselves as ethnically Greek, are traitors to the Cypriot nation or are not loyal to Cyprus first and foremost. They are saying that Greek Cypriots who identify themselves as ethnically Greek are ultra nationalists and supporters of the Junta and are therefore responsible for the destruction of Cyprus. Therefore, for a Cypriot to accept there ethnic identity they fall below the lowest common denominator as they are traitors to Cyprus.

So why is the Hellenic Ethnos demonised so much? Is it because some believe that by doing so the Turkish Cypriots will also reject their ethnicity?

[insan]

However, times have changed in the Greek Cypriot community and now they have accepted Turkish Cypriots as one of the two main communities to a large degree.

Yet I haven't heard any GCs other than Bananiot, genuinely accepting TC community as one of the 2 main communities.

As for the minorities of Cyprus, they have always stood beside either of the communities according to their beliefs and interests. The rights of minorities must be secured and fully satisfied according to relevant provisions of constitution and laws.

[Paphitis]

However, times have changed in the Greek Cypriot community and now they have accepted Turkish Cypriots as one of the two main communities to a large degree.

Yet I haven't heard any GCs other than Bananiot, genuinely accepting TC community as one of the 2 main communities.

As for the minorities of Cyprus, they have always stood beside either of the communities according to their beliefs and interests. The rights of minorities must be secured and fully satisfied according to relevant provisions of constitution and laws.

This can be done by giving the Greek Cypriot Community, Turkish Cypriot Community, Maronite Cypriot Community, Latin Cypriot Community and Armenian Cypriot Community and equal representation within the Senate. This way, everyone's rights can be safeguarded.

The Armenian, Latin, and Maronite communities can not be ignored either.

[Simon]

Cyprus's ancient connections with the Arcadians, Myceneans, Byzantines etc. (which you collectively term "Greek") has nothing to do with the flag of modern Greece. Perhaps we ought to find an alternative, more accurate, symbol to illustrate this connection, if this connection continues to be so important to us.

It is not me who collectively calls them Greek but most experts as well. So because they didn't use the modern Greek flag, does that mean they were not Greek or have nothing to do with modern Greece? Just because modern Greeks use the flag, does that mean they are not Greek? The Greek flag is what the Greek people chose as a symbol for their country. So what is the difference? There wasn't a flag that represented the ancient Greeks as far as I'm aware, so modern Greeks designed one instead. As I said before, the modern Greeks are the inheritors of all the Greek civilisations that were before, and the Greek Cypriots fought for the independence of modern Greece, so they also associate with its flag.

There is nothing to differentiate those flyers of the flag of modern Greece who respect the island's sovereignty – and those flyers of the flag of modern Greece who don't; and who think Cyprus is Greek and should unite with modern Greece.

Very, very few still think of enosis today. Flying Greece's flag has nothing to do with wanting enosis today. Like I said, the government allows Greek flags all over the island, so is enosis government policy? I see people in Britain with the flag of Pakistan, do they want Pakistan to annex Britain? It is just a cultural symbol for GCs, and should not be seen so politically.

The same is true of the flag of Turkey. If I saw a Cypriot in the north flying the flag of Turkey, I'd conclude he was a believer in Taksim, and sided with the invader. If he said, "You've got me all wrong. I am merely exercising my rights under the 1960 constitution and I respect the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus," I'd say, "pese bu jindo blevron!" (pull the other one).

Then I would say to you don't be so presumptuous. It is quite wrong to make snap judgments of people like that. If he said to me I support the RoC, but also like flying the Turkish flag, which is my right to do so under OUR constitution, I would say fine. He is not breaking any law, and as long as he respects Cyprus above all else, there is no problem. I would expect the RoC flag to be flown alongside any Greek or Turkish flag, to reinforce this. I can't do that with my avatar.

Simon, are you Greek? And by that I mean, are you from Greece rather than Cyprus? I ask because of a comment GR made about you being married to a Cypriot.

GR doesn't have a clue about my personal life, in fact, he doesn't seem to have a clue about most things. I'm a Greek Cypriot. Are you a Maronite Cypriot, or one of the other minorities? I'm only asking because your posts seem heavily focused towards the minorities.

Anyone who can't let go of their mother is still a child.

Agreed, but if you tried to tell an adult that his mother is not his mother, then he would still defend her.

The Cypriot wrote:

You know the world is too ignorant. The solution should be left to Cypriots.

Agreed, but it was you who brought the world up.

Now who's being naive? The solution must be decided by Cypriots, but it will take the world to impose it.

Hold on, I think you are confused here. You brought up the world's assumptions, I stated that if they make such assumptions they can't contribute to much, you agreed and said a solution should be left to the Cypriots, I agreed, and then you say the world must impose it and call me naive. You are contradicting yourself here, I only agreed with you.

I have a problem with people who deny Cypriots have a culture and heritage all their own that is unique. Because we clearly have. And ethnicity too. But I am not going to repeat all my previous posts.

As far as I'm aware, nobody has denied the uniqueness of Cyprus with all its minorities and influences. But the culture is predominantly Greek, denying this is living in denial.

It is you who is denying and ignoring the rich blend of cultures that makes Cyprus unique and focuses on one (or actually half a dozen, which you collectively call "Greek").

You keep repeating this, but it is rubbish. Show me one comment of mine denying any culture in Cyprus. I say Cyprus' culture is predominantly Greek, with obviously several influences. Every country in the world has influences on its main culture. I'm not going to list them all. I haven't heard you mention any other minority other than the TCs and Maronites in our debates. So does this mean YOU do not care about the others? This is such a cheap argument and holds no water.

The nation state is an articial construct. Borders throughout Europe are arbitrary. Look at France and Germany, where there are French speakers in Germany and vice versa. Cyprus, at least, has the advantage of being an island.

I'm not talking about borders, I'm talking about people. Those nation states evolved, and people learned to live with each other through trust and respect. TCs are not going to trust us if we start saying we are no longer Greek, for starters they won't believe us. Even if they do, it will build resentment among GCs, and turn some more extreme, which is dangerous. Instead we must be open and honest about our differences, show that they are not important enough to divide us, and we are mature enough to live together as Cypriots, sharing one island.

Not all of them are Turkish in origin, some if not most are Cypriots who relinquished their faith during the arduous years of Ottoman rule. TC is therefore not necessarily accurate a term.

I agree, but they identify themselves as Turkish Cypriots today. I don't think they would be too impressed if you denied them their right to identify themselves as they pleased.

Many TCs who think they are Turkish in origin have the wrong impression. That may be why they want partition. Many of the TCs I talk to see themselves as Cypriots.

I agree, but trying to change this impression is like mission impossible, unless you give 18% of the population 50% of the power, which is undemocratic, and this is what the TCs want.

[denizaksulu]

I am Cypriot and Cypriot means Greek unless you belong to an ethnic minority. These minorities came long after us on our island and if they didn't like us for who we are then they shouldn't have come! We are not going to change who we are to satisfy any Turkish invaders.

I whole heartedly agree with you sentiments The Cypriot, now how do we move forward with all the prejudices and fears we have pent up since 1963?

Since 1571 you mean.

What an interesting thread. I thought it would be one of Oracles babies. I was wrong. Good old unkie GR at it again.

Sotos!
I am also Cypriot. A Turkish Cypriot. Therefore Cypriot does not mean Greek to the exclusion of Turkish Cypriots.. Get that into your head.

[insan]

However, times have changed in the Greek Cypriot community and now they have accepted Turkish Cypriots as one of the two main communities to a large degree.

Yet I haven't heard any GCs other than Bananiot, genuinely accepting TC community as one of the 2 main communities.

As for the minorities of Cyprus, they have always stood beside either of the communities according to their beliefs and interests. The rights of minorities must be secured and fully satisfied according to relevant provisions of constitution and laws.

This can be done by giving the Greek Cypriot Community, Turkish Cypriot Community, Maronite Cypriot Community, Latin Cypriot Community and Armenian Cypriot Community and equal representation within the Senate. This way, everyone's rights can be safeguarded.

The Armenian, Latin, and Maronite communities can not be ignored either.

So, in any case u(GCs) will exert to be the major power and consider all others ineffective minorities. Anything leads to GC rule is accepted by u, eh?

[Paphitis]

However, times have changed in the Greek Cypriot community and now they have accepted Turkish Cypriots as one of the two main communities to a large degree.

Yet I haven't heard any GCs other than Bananiot, genuinely accepting TC community as one of the 2 main communities.

As for the minorities of Cyprus, they have always stood beside either of the communities according to their beliefs and interests. The rights of minorities must be secured and fully satisfied according to relevant provisions of constitution and laws.

This can be done by giving the Greek Cypriot Community, Turkish Cypriot Community, Maronite Cypriot Community, Latin Cypriot Community and Armenian Cypriot Community and equal representation within the Senate. This way, everyone's rights can be safeguarded.

The Armenian, Latin, and Maronite communities can not be ignored either.

So, in any case u(GCs) will exert to be the major power and consider all others ineffective minorities. Anything leads to GC rule is accepted by u, eh?

If all communities have equal representation with the Senate, their rights will be protected and at the same time the House of Representatives can represent all Cypriots democratically, based on each communities demographic dimensions.