Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

This concludes uploads for tonight and at the very least one should read the highlighted parts.

Tomorrow we press on with the writings of more authors thus having the ability to cross-reference each with everyone else. There’s much more to upload so I’d appreciate people not preoccupying the server while I’m doing that because it makes a very time consuming job even worse and they’ll get plenty of chances to respond later.

Regards, GR.

[Lit]

This concludes uploads for tonight and at the very least one should read the highlighted parts.

Tomorrow we press on with the writings of more authors thus having the ability to cross-reference each with everyone else. There’s much more to upload so I’d appreciate people not preoccupying the server while I’m doing that because it makes a very time consuming job even worse and they’ll get plenty of chances to respond later.

Regards, GR.

You got biitch slapped and u know it.

[Oracle]

As I've stated before I don't place much value on single-gene comparisons.

This study was done to show the influence of Greek genes amongst Sicilians and it proves definitively the migrations patterns of Greeks as recorded by Greeks/Romans and later people.

So here are some of the latest gene-merged data ....

Principal component analysis (Figure 3) is performed on a database resulting from merging our present data with data from Pericic et al 200531 and with the more recent ones by Zalloua et al30 specifically devoted to Lebanon. Figure 3 displays a synthetic picture of the genetic distances between all the samples (WSI and ESI are compared with 28 other regions from Europe and the Mediterranean) according to the first and the second principal components of the frequencies of Hgs R1-M173, R1a1-M17, I1b-xM26-P37, E3b1a-M78 and J2b1-M102. The final result is that WSI and ESI are compared with 28 other regions from Europe and the Mediterranean. The general pattern in the graph is a separation between Balkan populations in the upper left corner (mainly due to I1b-xM26-P37), northern African and Mid-Eastern populations in the lower left corner and other European population on a branch extending to the right. ESI and WSI fall at the intersection of the latter clusters and are well separated from the Balkan populations. ESI is closer to Greece and Cyprus and it is discriminated by the first PC (66% total variance) from WSI (which is similar to Calabria and other western Europeans, mainly due to R1b1c-M269).

Figure 3.Plot of the two first principal coordinates (Principal Component Analysis, PCA). PCA is performed on a database resulting from merging our present data (ESI and WSI) with data from Pericic et al31 and with data from Zalloua et al30 regarding Lebanon. Population codes: AEI=Aegean islands; ALB=Albanian; ALG=Algerian (Arab); AND=Andalusian; BAS=Basque (French and Spanish); BEL=Belgian; BOS=Bosnian; CAT=Catalan; CRO=Croatian; CYP=Cypriot; DUT=Dutch; ESI=eastern Sicilian; FRE=French; GRE=Greek; HER=Herzegovinian; HUN=Hungarian; I-APU=Italian (Apulia); I-CAL=Italian (Calabria); I-SAR=Italian (Sardinia); LEB=Lebanese; MAL=Malta; MOR=Moroccan (Arab); ROM=Romanian; SER=Serbian; SLO=Slovenian; SPA=Spanish; TUN=Tunisian; TUR=Turkish (Istanbul); WSI=western Sicilian.






As can be seen from gene-merged data .... the Greeks and Cypriots cluster the closest to one of the two main markers (ESI).

European Journal of Human Genetics (2009) 17, 91–99; doi:10.1038/ejhg.2008.120; published online 6 August 2008

[Simon]

Thanks Oracle, I think this needed your expertise.

GR doesn't appear to be making any coherent arguments, but just scanning lots from his books. He has even used authors that either contradict him or are from the FYROM

[Oracle]

Thanks Oracle, I think this needed your expertise.

GR doesn't appear to be making any coherent arguments, but just scanning lots from his books. He has even used authors from the FYROM

I don't know what he is trying to prove now

His initial argument was that Cypriots are not Hellenic. Now he is trying to say that Greeks are not Hellenic also?

I've been out all evening, so I have some catching up to do ....

[Oracle]

Historically Sicily was colonised by the Greeks. Their claim to Hellenism though is less today than that of the Cypriots' claim. Yet the one genetic study carried out to see if Greek genes (sorry to use simplistic terms) are still prevalent in Sicily, despite them having less recent contact than the Cypriots, proves that what the Classical history books tell us is true ...

The presence or absence of genetic heterogeneity in Sicily has long been debated. Through the analysis of the variation of Y-chromosome lineages, using the combination of haplogroups and short tandem repeats from several areas of Sicily, we show that traces of genetic flows occurred in the island, due to ancient Greek colonization and to northern African contributions, are still visible on the basis of the distribution of some lineages. The genetic contribution of Greek chromosomes to the Sicilian gene pool is estimated to be about 37% whereas the contribution of North African populations is estimated to be around 6%.

European Journal of Human Genetics (2009) 17, 91–99; doi:10.1038/ejhg.2008.120; published online 6 August 2008

[insan]

As I've stated before I don't place much value on single-gene comparisons.

This study was done to show the influence of Greek genes amongst Sicilians and it proves definitively the migrations patterns of Greeks as recorded by Greeks/Romans and later people.

So here are some of the latest gene-merged data ....

Principal component analysis (Figure 3) is performed on a database resulting from merging our present data with data from Pericic et al 200531 and with the more recent ones by Zalloua et al30 specifically devoted to Lebanon. Figure 3 displays a synthetic picture of the genetic distances between all the samples (WSI and ESI are compared with 28 other regions from Europe and the Mediterranean) according to the first and the second principal components of the frequencies of Hgs R1-M173, R1a1-M17, I1b-xM26-P37, E3b1a-M78 and J2b1-M102. The final result is that WSI and ESI are compared with 28 other regions from Europe and the Mediterranean. The general pattern in the graph is a separation between Balkan populations in the upper left corner (mainly due to I1b-xM26-P37), northern African and Mid-Eastern populations in the lower left corner and other European population on a branch extending to the right. ESI and WSI fall at the intersection of the latter clusters and are well separated from the Balkan populations. ESI is closer to Greece and Cyprus and it is discriminated by the first PC (66% total variance) from WSI (which is similar to Calabria and other western Europeans, mainly due to R1b1c-M269).

Figure 3.Plot of the two first principal coordinates (Principal Component Analysis, PCA). PCA is performed on a database resulting from merging our present data (ESI and WSI) with data from Pericic et al31 and with data from Zalloua et al30 regarding Lebanon. Population codes: AEI=Aegean islands; ALB=Albanian; ALG=Algerian (Arab); AND=Andalusian; BAS=Basque (French and Spanish); BEL=Belgian; BOS=Bosnian; CAT=Catalan; CRO=Croatian; CYP=Cypriot; DUT=Dutch; ESI=eastern Sicilian; FRE=French; GRE=Greek; HER=Herzegovinian; HUN=Hungarian; I-APU=Italian (Apulia); I-CAL=Italian (Calabria); I-SAR=Italian (Sardinia); LEB=Lebanese; MAL=Malta; MOR=Moroccan (Arab); ROM=Romanian; SER=Serbian; SLO=Slovenian; SPA=Spanish; TUN=Tunisian; TUR=Turkish (Istanbul); WSI=western Sicilian.






As can be seen from gene-merged data .... the Greeks and Cypriots cluster the closest to one of the two main markers (ESI).

European Journal of Human Genetics (2009) 17, 91–99; doi:10.1038/ejhg.2008.120; published online 6 August 2008

Hmmm... Eastern Sicilian is closer to Greece and Cyprus... so? An Italian thing?

[yialousa1971]

I see this as a waste of time as GR is just doing his usual crap of posting lots and acting like a mute. Why didn't you just deal with one thing at time instead of posting loads of crap, you're just acting like someone who just wants more posts than anyone else.

Yialousa???

Directed at me hon?

No at GR

[Oracle]

They are genetic distances Insan and they confirm the migrations which have left these markers over time. Like the other maps I've shown before, the new data is confirming the country boundaries and historical records as we know them and since they have been kept, or the ones more accurately catalogued through huge artifact libraries (such as exist for Greece). Thus disproving GR's claims against both Hellenism and its influence in Cyprus.

BTW .... would you post any further comments on DT.'s thread. Thank you

We are trying to debate this amongst ourselves, without competitiveness/political expediency or animosity.

[Get Real!]

The CF has never seen so many Greeks simultaneously scrambling in damage control like we’ve witnessed on this thread tonight!

Little do they know what lies ahead for them tomorrow, or the day after that for the “Hellenic” files will be a long-term project for GR so that every single online Cypriot will eventually be well informed of how badly we’ve been had!

It’s a depressing case of a Greek mythology turning into a major Cypriot tragedy…