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Punishment for those who bought property in occupied Cyprus

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Jerry » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:42 pm

tessintrnc wrote:Looking at the latest "property scandals" in the local papers, it seems that many of the people who bought their so called exchange land properties don't and probably won't ever own them anyway. Even some of the most "prestigeous" sites have been exposed as heavily mortgaged, and as such individual deeds will never be issued!! So who owns the land according to the TRNC government? And who will be "brought to book"? The people who:
A) Bought the villa/apartment
B) The contractor who built the properties
C) The banks who have up to 70% mortage claims on the land

These people who bought the properties cannot get their deeds, so why bother taking these individuals to court, when officially they don't and are not likely to ever "own" the property, who in their turn will be taking the contractor (the seller) to court? The bank owns most of the land they are built on, so can the (Turkish) banks be brought to court? Puts a different slant on things, and the Orams case will pale into insignificance when you take on the major banks won't it? ın the long run, it may not be a return of land that is possible, but sadly, an acceptance of compensation from Turkey herself. What a mess.


The uncertainty caused by the Orams ruling will make "exchange" land unsaleable, especially if a few more cases like Orams hit the headlines in the UK.

Being in the north perhaps you can tell us how the property market is at present, do people appear to be hanging back waiting for Orams decision?
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Postby Kikapu » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:42 pm

Viewpoint wrote: The ties between the Brits and the TCs are much stronger than those in the south as we fought together and died together at the end of GC guns.


Oh please, spare us the dramatics, will you. The Brits used us in the past and now some of those morally corrupted British fools are using you one more time to get what they want, which is to steal the GC land, remain in them, and try and deny the TC's any kind of reunification , because they will lose once that happens, and looks like they have trained you to be the good "monkey" to obey their demands. While they are living "on the hog", your fellow TC's are not, unless of course, they too morally corrupt themselves in dealing in stolen GC properties. You give way too much importance and credit to these morally corrupted fools.

Viewpoint wrote:The Brits in the south do not have anything to lobby about so the numbers dont make any difference. The numbers of Brtis who are not citizens of the TRNC is very high and they all pay taxes in the UK so they have every right to lobby the UK government some are even ex MPs and Barristers who carry a lot of weight


You have at best 5,000 True Brits/English in the north. All the rest are TC British like yourself. I don't care how many British Barristers and ex MP's you have in the north, in fact more the merrier once this legal ruling takes full effect, the GC’s can go after them in the UK and they will not be able to do a damn thing about it, as they have not been able to do a damn thing up to this point to try and prevent this legal case getting this far, that they are about to get a knock on the door with legal papers being served to them. Lousy 5000 morally corrupted Brits in the "trnc" does not even amount to a flea on an elephants ass in comparison to the population in the UK who are not going to support criminal in far away land..........sorry to disappoint you, VP. If they do pay taxes in the UK, all the better. That means they have assets there too and were smart enough not to sell everything and put the money in the "trnc" bank in the form of a Turkish currency.!

Viewpoint wrote:You are clearly not knowledgable about the TRNC as you have never been here to understand that the Brits here are mainly Brits unlike myself who is TC in origin although our numbers are also ,ncreasing it is nowhere near those of the expats who are 100% pro Denktaş and 100% anti GC.


All I need to know about what goes on in the north is, that GC land has been stolen and sold to others. That practice will come to an end very soon and those who have been responsible in being an active participant in this thievery, will be made to face their actions with the legal system. They have had it way too easy for way too long. It is these people who have denied the TC's to have peace for the longest time in Cyprus, because their greed was more important than the lives of average TC's, and you are still defending these morally corrupted people at the expense of better life for our people. All "good" things must come to an end, and the end is fast approaching to these low lives.

Viewpoint wrote:How long will you take for you to understand what I am saying is right and that even if this ruling goes against the Orams nothing will actually change, nothing will be enforced and everything will be linked to a comprehensive solution???


What will change is the fact, Christofias will be off the hook to cut a deal with Talat on how to satisfy the GC refugees, which is mainly compensation in Talat's views, so that the north can be bought to become a Turkish state in the future after a envisioned partition down the road becomes a reality and still be part of the EU. Now, the GC's will be able to say NO to a compensation and even if there is any kind of a BBF deal with a loose central government, the TC courts in the north will not be able to deny these GC refugees their properties, because even if they did, they can take their case to the EU and that will be that. This will prevent the north from ever becoming "Pure Turkish Land" for the future. Alternatively, is for the north not to be in the EU and not have peace, and no prosperity for the TC's, but hey, look on the bright side, the 5,000 Brits will be able to keep "their" stolen properties as you become their servants. Turkey can kiss the EU goodbye also, if you think these 5,000 Brits can rule them also. But of course we know why the Brits are there, because you made it possible for them to be there. They were your "insurance" to make sure that stolen GC land not to be returned back to them by hoping to use Britain as a "protectorate". Sometimes best laid plans go very terrible wrong, as this legal ruling becoming law, will be the end of those best laid plans. Listen, Talat is craping bricks with worry about this ruling becoming a reality. I would advice you and all the other 5,000 Brits to take note of Talat's concerns.
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Postby Jerry » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:56 pm

VP wrote:-

The ties between the Brits and the TCs are much stronger than those in the south as we fought together and died together at the end of GC guns. The Brits in the south do not have anything to lobby about so the numbers dont make any difference. The numbers of Brtis who are not citizens of the TRNC is very high and they all pay taxes in the UK so they have every right to lobby the UK government some are even ex MPs and Barristers who carry a lot of weight, You are clearly not knowledgable about the TRNC as you have never been here to understand that the Brits here are mainly Brits unlike myself who is TC in origin although our numbers are also ,ncreasing it is nowhere near those of the expats who are 100% pro Denktaş and 100% anti GC.

How long will you take for you to understand what I am saying is right and that even if this ruling goes against the Orams nothing will actually change, nothing will be enforced and everything will be linked to a comprehensive solution???quote]


You obviously don't know how a government functions VP. In the UK the government makes laws, the Courts apply them. If a judgement is made in an English Court against a defendant there is not too much the Government can do about it without changing the law. Lobbying is unlikely to work and if you tried to lobby a judge you would probably get locked up yourself. If by former MPs you include the likes of Keith Speed (former MP for Ashford) I happen to know that he played it safe and did not buy "exchange" land. As I said in another post after Orams decision your "exchange" properties will be worthless, who would want to buy them?
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Postby Sotos » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:20 pm

tessintrnc wrote:Looking at the latest "property scandals" in the local papers, it seems that many of the people who bought their so called exchange land properties don't and probably won't ever own them anyway. Even some of the most "prestigeous" sites have been exposed as heavily mortgaged, and as such individual deeds will never be issued!! So who owns the land according to the TRNC government? And who will be "brought to book"? The people who:
A) Bought the villa/apartment
B) The contractor who built the properties
C) The banks who have up to 70% mortage claims on the land

These people who bought the properties cannot get their deeds, so why bother taking these individuals to court, when officially they don't and are not likely to ever "own" the property, who in their turn will be taking the contractor (the seller) to court? The bank owns most of the land they are built on, so can the (Turkish) banks be brought to court? Puts a different slant on things, and the Orams case will pale into insignificance when you take on the major banks won't it? ın the long run, it may not be a return of land that is possible, but sadly, an acceptance of compensation from Turkey herself. What a mess.


If it is as you say and if those Banks have any assets or operations in EU countries then I think we should go first on them. ;) And remember what we want is not compensation to give to them our land. What we want and what we won with the Orams case is that they should demolish the properties they made on our land and pay as rent for the time they used it. The land is still ours. If the Turks want to settle the problem with compensations then we can buy the 12% of land that they own and they can go back from where they came from. Our island is not for sale to Turkey!
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Postby Sotos » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:21 pm

What lobbying? There are 200.000 GCs UK citizens in London alone.
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Postby tessintrnc » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:28 pm

Jerry wrote:
tessintrnc wrote:Looking at the latest "property scandals" in the local papers, it seems that many of the people who bought their so called exchange land properties don't and probably won't ever own them anyway. Even some of the most "prestigeous" sites have been exposed as heavily mortgaged, and as such individual deeds will never be issued!! So who owns the land according to the TRNC government? And who will be "brought to book"? The people who:
A) Bought the villa/apartment
B) The contractor who built the properties
C) The banks who have up to 70% mortage claims on the land

These people who bought the properties cannot get their deeds, so why bother taking these individuals to court, when officially they don't and are not likely to ever "own" the property, who in their turn will be taking the contractor (the seller) to court? The bank owns most of the land they are built on, so can the (Turkish) banks be brought to court? Puts a different slant on things, and the Orams case will pale into insignificance when you take on the major banks won't it? ın the long run, it may not be a return of land that is possible, but sadly, an acceptance of compensation from Turkey herself. What a mess.


The uncertainty caused by the Orams ruling will make "exchange" land unsaleable, especially if a few more cases like Orams hit the headlines in the UK.

Being in the north perhaps you can tell us how the property market is at present, do people appear to be hanging back waiting for Orams decision?


No they are not "hanging back", I think that the mortgage scandal is over-shadowing the Orams at the moment. Most buyers are adamant that siezure of "british" assetts will never happen. What is "hot" at the moment is re-sales. that is, buying properties that are already "owned " and with title deeds. Off-plan is a no-no as a lot of the land is mortgaged and the solicitors seem to be unaware or turn a blind, bigoted eye to this fact. As far I know no-one has successfully taken a solicitor to court here for turning a blind eye to the fact that the person you buy from doesnt own the land - that in fact it is fully mortaged to a Turkish bank. It is a sad case of dissaray here with property and a lot of ex pats are selling up and moving on, or, in a lot of cases, renting the property out and then moving to Turkey to rent themselves!!! Rental properties in Turkey are 30% cheaper than here, so you rent yours for 500 a month and rent in Turkey for 300 and cheaper cost of living - bobs your uncle you are quids in!!!
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Postby Jerry » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:57 pm

Thank you Tess, its always interesting to hear what is actually happening from someone who lives there to gauge the real picture.
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Postby tessintrnc » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:44 pm

Sotos wrote:
tessintrnc wrote:Looking at the latest "property scandals" in the local papers, it seems that many of the people who bought their so called exchange land properties don't and probably won't ever own them anyway. Even some of the most "prestigeous" sites have been exposed as heavily mortgaged, and as such individual deeds will never be issued!! So who owns the land according to the TRNC government? And who will be "brought to book"? The people who:
A) Bought the villa/apartment
B) The contractor who built the properties
C) The banks who have up to 70% mortage claims on the land

These people who bought the properties cannot get their deeds, so why bother taking these individuals to court, when officially they don't and are not likely to ever "own" the property, who in their turn will be taking the contractor (the seller) to court? The bank owns most of the land they are built on, so can the (Turkish) banks be brought to court? Puts a different slant on things, and the Orams case will pale into insignificance when you take on the major banks won't it? ın the long run, it may not be a return of land that is possible, but sadly, an acceptance of compensation from Turkey herself. What a mess.


If it is as you say and if those Banks have any assets or operations in EU countries then I think we should go first on them. ;) And remember what we want is not compensation to give to them our land. What we want and what we won with the Orams case is that they should demolish the properties they made on our land and pay as rent for the time they used it. The land is still ours. If the Turks want to settle the problem with compensations then we can buy the 12% of land that they own and they can go back from where they came from. Our island is not for sale to Turkey!


I agree Sotos. But, and its big but, WHO exactly will "go" for these banks - and yes they do operate throughout the world!! Individual v individual will take years - I think we all agree on that!! What is needed, in my opinion is a coordinated effort to go for the sellers!! And the banks that readily mortgage the land in the 1st place - then and only then will the land be truly "in dispute", sadly, Joe ordinary, doesnt have much clout but if the banks and the big contractors were targeted things might take a different turn?
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:47 pm

Jerry wrote:
tessintrnc wrote:Looking at the latest "property scandals" in the local papers, it seems that many of the people who bought their so called exchange land properties don't and probably won't ever own them anyway. Even some of the most "prestigeous" sites have been exposed as heavily mortgaged, and as such individual deeds will never be issued!! So who owns the land according to the TRNC government? And who will be "brought to book"? The people who:
A) Bought the villa/apartment
B) The contractor who built the properties
C) The banks who have up to 70% mortage claims on the land

These people who bought the properties cannot get their deeds, so why bother taking these individuals to court, when officially they don't and are not likely to ever "own" the property, who in their turn will be taking the contractor (the seller) to court? The bank owns most of the land they are built on, so can the (Turkish) banks be brought to court? Puts a different slant on things, and the Orams case will pale into insignificance when you take on the major banks won't it? ın the long run, it may not be a return of land that is possible, but sadly, an acceptance of compensation from Turkey herself. What a mess.


The uncertainty caused by the Orams ruling will make "exchange" land unsaleable, especially if a few more cases like Orams hit the headlines in the UK.

Being in the north perhaps you can tell us how the property market is at present, do people appear to be hanging back waiting for Orams decision?


Although the market has noticably slowed down the world recession has not helped but the buyers now are Israelis, Russians and Iraqis. The profile will change but investment will not slow down there are still many projects in the pipeline.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:19 pm

Kikapu
Oh please, spare us the dramatics, will you. The Brits used us in the past and now some of those morally corrupted British fools are using you one more time to get what they want, which is to steal the GC land, remain in them, and try and deny the TC's any kind of reunification , because they will lose once that happens, and looks like they have trained you to be the good "monkey" to obey their demands. While they are living "on the hog", your fellow TC's are not, unless of course, they too morally corrupt themselves in dealing in stolen GC properties. You give way too much importance and credit to these morally corrupted fools.


They used us by giving us a partnership in the "RoC" which the GCs hijacked and tried to change to suit themselves and their vile aims. Without them the GCs would have achieved their enosis dream and you would not be arguing their corner today. How are they denying us a solution when we cannot agree jack shit, you still have to realize the chasm is to wide to bridge this takes courage and acuman which you lack, you will be banging your head against a brick wall indefinately as you appear to not understand that neither side has the desire, vision or ability to compromise or be flexible enough to find a solution that both sides can commit to.

We are no different from the south who thrives on Brits, Im sure you can work out the rest without them their economy would start to crumble. You should not throw bricks if you live in a glass house.

You have at best 5,000 True Brits/English in the north. All the rest are TC British like yourself. I don't care how many British Barristers and ex MP's you have in the north, in fact more the merrier once this legal ruling takes full effect, the GC’s can go after them in the UK and they will not be able to do a damn thing about it, as they have not been able to do a damn thing up to this point to try and prevent this legal case getting this far, that they are about to get a knock on the door with legal papers being served to them. Lousy 5000 morally corrupted Brits in the "trnc" does not even amount to a flea on an elephants ass in comparison to the population in the UK who are not going to support criminal in far away land..........sorry to disappoint you, VP. If they do pay taxes in the UK, all the better. That means they have assets there too and were smart enough not to sell everything and put the money in the "trnc" bank in the form of a Turkish currency.!


You are picking figures out of the air again, please supply links to support your arguement otherwise refrain from talking as if you know the gospel. You are far from the truth and do not have a clue about the balance. This ruling will make no difference and you knwo it, they are comfortable with fact that we cannot agree a solution that could put them at risk, and continue to sell off assets in the UK and invest in the TRNC where the interest rates are more attractive. You seem to dismiss these peoples contribution to the TRNC economy, just for a few minutes consider 10.000 Brits with 300.000 each investing here...pretty big amount when you consider the overall size of our economy dont you think.

I am not protecting anyone I am just stating what I think will happen if the ruling does in fact go your way and that is nothing....the Brits will just takes measures to soften the fallout and delay in siezing assets, there are many ways to skin a cat you must have learned that by now living in "democratic" countries.

All I need to know about what goes on in the north is, that GC land has been stolen and sold to others. That practice will come to an end very soon and those who have been responsible in being an active participant in this thievery, will be made to face their actions with the legal system. They have had it way too easy for way too long. It is these people who have denied the TC's to have peace for the longest time in Cyprus, because their greed was more important than the lives of average TC's, and you are still defending these morally corrupted people at the expense of better life for our people. All "good" things must come to an end, and the end is fast approaching to these low lives.


How will you stop the Isrealis Russians or Iraqis?

Money and ways to make profit never stop, high risk high gains their are plenty of people to take that risk.

What will change is the fact, Christofias will be off the hook to cut a deal with Talat on how to satisfy the GC refugees, which is mainly compensation in Talat's views, so that the north can be bought to become a Turkish state in the future after a envisioned partition down the road becomes a reality and still be part of the EU. Now, the GC's will be able to say NO to a compensation and even if there is any kind of a BBF deal with a loose central government, the TC courts in the north will not be able to deny these GC refugees their properties, because even if they did, they can take their case to the EU and that will be that. This will prevent the north from ever becoming "Pure Turkish Land" for the future. Alternatively, is for the north not to be in the EU and not have peace, and no prosperity for the TC's, but hey, look on the bright side, the 5,000 Brits will be able to keep "their" stolen properties as you become their servants. Turkey can kiss the EU goodbye also, if you think these 5,000 Brits can rule them also. But of course we know why the Brits are there, because you made it possible for them to be there. They were your "insurance" to make sure that stolen GC land not to be returned back to them by hoping to use Britain as a "protectorate". Sometimes best laid plans go very terrible wrong, as this legal ruling becoming law, will be the end of those best laid plans. Listen, Talat is craping bricks with worry about this ruling becoming a reality. I would advice you and all the other 5,000 Brits to take note of Talat's concerns.


Whos being dramatic now? the facts still remain that the majority of GCs will have the option of finanacial compensation or land in the south, with some getting their land back where possible, thats what President Talat is saying.

As for best laid plans that comment cuts both ways what if the decision is not as you wish and is one that puts this issue on a back burner until a solution is found? what will you GCs do then?
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