Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

I know many people will disagree and even hate me for saying this, but I will say it anyway as it is truly how I feel.

If these peace talks fail, Turkey is refused entry into the EU, and the EU leverage is lost, then what? We will undoubtedly then begin hearing about the fait accompli and how it may be time to lift the isolation of the Turkish Cypriots. We will then be in very dangerous territory. It is unrealistic for us to think that the world will keep the TCs isolated forever. Therefore, there may only be one option left. Are we ready to understand this? Ruling out liberating our island by force is plain folly, unless of course you do not care about signing away 37% of your country whilst being laughed at in the same breath.

Some wise words I read the other day:

"Greece was liberated by terrorists.. who later
were called freedom rebels... after they were
dead, that's the truth..... Now in Cyprus
I can clearly see that most people are afraid
to break the law, afraid to fight, and
would never put war above their families and
business objectives, and that's why you will never be liberated... The Turkish still want
to take more of your wealth, and take your
oil reserves and you just stand there watching
them".

Whilst I don't completely agree with the "you just stand there watching them" the above certainly has a hint of truth in it.

Even if we cannot defeat Turkey in conventional warfare, we could certainly do it enough damage that it would be very expensive for it to remain here. Yes, guerilla warfare if needs be. Were EOKA a match militarily for Britain, of course not, but they were still very effective. Are we ready to fight? Are we willing to sacrifice? Are we willing to accept that things may get much worse, before they get better? Surely the RoC has extensive plans and alternatives on how we can liberate our island by force. Surely we have planned painstakingly for this. Tactics are much more important than numbers, especially on a small island like Cyprus, where having numbers too large can hinder you.

Is Cyprus the only country in the world under occupation where there is no armed resistance whatsoever? Isn't Turkey getting away with this occupation so easily because there is peace? Even if it leads to Turkey occupying the whole of Cyprus, this may strengthen our position. It will certainly weaken Turkey internationally and make the occupation even more costly, in terms of money and lives. And how long will the EU allow a member to be occupied against its will? Especially when lives are being lost. The situation would be untenable. If we haven't already, we should be preparing for Plan B.

[Simon]

"We are all prisoners of knowledge. To know how Cyprus was betrayed, and to have studied the record of that betrayal, is to make oneself unhappy and to spoil, perhaps for ever, one's pleasure for visiting one of the world's most enchanting islands. Nothing will ever restore the looted treasures, the bereaved families, the plundered villages, the groves and hillsides scalded with napalm. Nor will anything mitigate the record of the callous, and crude politicians who regarded Cyprus as something on which to scribble their inane and conceited designs. But fatalism would be the worst betrayal of all. The acceptance, the legitimization of what was done - those things must be repudiated. Such a refusal has a value beyond Cyprus in showing that acquiescence in injustice is not 'realism'. Once the injustice has been set down and described, and called by its right name, acquiescence in it becomes impossible. That is why one writes about Cyprus in sorrow but more - much more - in anger."
-Christopher Hitchens

[yialousa1971]

The Turks will only be removed by force, it's nonsense to believe other wise.

[denizaksulu]

Two places reserved for the above posters.

Cyprus has had enough. If Mr X and Mr T fail, replace them and start from scratch.

Here we have two Adolfosporous thank God, only in embryonic stage.

Your heads should be crushed before you begin another bloodbath.

[Simon]

Start from scratch where?

I am regularly told that the nationalists will form the next administration in the north. Talat is well behind in the polls and Talat is perhaps the most pro-solution serious politician you have. If we can't agree with Talat, (with whom Christofias has a very good personal relationship with) who can we agree with? Anyway, it does not matter who is in charge in the north, the only view that really matters is Turkey's. They pull all the strings. And if the EU carrot was taken away, then so too would a negotiated settlement in their eyes.

I didn't expect anything other than the above from a TC; but it is the GCs that need to wake up.

[insan]

I don't believe Cyprus problem would be solved by force or waging a guerilla warfare. We r not in cold war era. Even a conventional war between Turks and Hellenes is impossible under current circumstances.

With your kiddo mind u reckon it is easy to wage a guerilla warfare towards "liberating" Cyprus. First of all, so-called RoC should be liberated from the occupation of Greek-GC administration.

NATO would have ended the Greek-GC occupation of RoC long time ago had a few so-called socialist countries e.g Russia, China not objected.

Ordinary Greeks and GCs believe that they r the rightful side of the Cyprus problem and that's why whole "world" recognize the so-called RoC as the only legitimate entity in Cyprus; however the events have developed, mostly in favour of Greeks/GCs just because the interests of western alliance in Balkans. During the cold war era, they had to favour Greece and keep her in Nato

[Simon]

Well you wouldn't believe it would you? It really is a bit pointless for TCs to comment on this thread. It does not matter what era we are in. What is happening in Afghanistan, in many places in Africa, in Palestine, China etc etc. Fighting for freedom is not limited to eras And nothing is impossible when it comes to war. History should have taught you that. Greece and Turkey have many complex disputes that could certainly lead to war in the future. Turkey only recently made casus beli threats to Greece if Greece LEGALLY extends its maritime boundary. So what you say is quite simply rubbish.

Who said it was easy to wage warfare? Fighting for freedom and human rights is never easy.

The rest of what you say is usual TC rubbish. Even the UN says the occupation is illegal. That is all I need to know with regards to who is right and who is wrong.

[bill cobbett]

My dear and beloved brothers/sisters S and Y71,

Should we believe and submit to the Partitionist/Turkish propaganda and to the external pressures from Great Powers who would also like to see appeasement to Turkish Expansionism through an unjust settlement when these people say that this round of talks represents the last chance saloon?

We never will settle anything by sitting at tables with people who feel they can negotiate some pretty basic human rights and whose only real concern is to hang on to as much if not all of the spoils of war as they can.

BUT there is still all to play for outside these crap concessionist talks. For instance we have the ECJ judgement in the Orams business coming up, we still have some 1,500 cases before the ECHR for property rights and this number is increasing, we still have the judgements at the ECHR in the matter of Cyprus v Turkey and some others, we still have the two dozen UN resolutions, we still have universal condemnation of the Turkish Invasion, we still have the kochans to almost all of the Occupied North and a great many other things that show that we still have the moral high-ground .

So we'll get nowhere at these bleeding talks ( and I can understand your frustration that we have to go through the motions) which would be more in keeping with the state of human rights in 1958/9; as long as Pres X doesn't sign anything stupid or lock us in to some partial agreement.

There will be other talks, of this I am sure, ones in which our moral high-ground, our human and property rights will be paramount. These won't be of the "negotiations" type of talk but rather of simple recognition of the rights we talk about so often, ones in which the influence of the EU and EU values will be at the fore. In the meantime we carry on with our peaceful and successful actions at the ECHR, ECJ and elsewhere.

This is a time to do what Cys do best and that is to be patient.

[denizaksulu]

Start from scratch where?

I am regularly told that the nationalists will form the next administration in the north. Talat is well behind in the polls and Talat is perhaps the most pro-solution serious politician you have. If we can't agree with Talat, (with whom Christofias has a very good personal relationship with) who can we agree with? Anyway, it does not matter who is in charge in the north, the only view that really matters is Turkey's. They pull all the strings. And if the EU carrot was taken away, then so too would a negotiated settlement in their eyes.

I didn't expect anything other than the above from a TC; but it is the GCs that need to wake up.

What is a Nationalist? I suppose GCs have no nationalists. Why is one better thsn the other?

Re-start from where the others have diverged.

[Simon]

bill,

who will enforce these judgments even if we win? If Turkey does not listen to UN resolutions, it will not listen to EU judgments. Then what? Turkey is refused entry into the EU, and the rest I cover above.

I'm not saying that we should be fighting now, but I am looking into the future and asking, are we prepared?