Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

A just war?

The concept of a "just war" is one that will trouble the consciences of all.

Below and based on the work of the early western theologian and philosopher Thomas Aquinas are some of the criteria that need to be met for a war to be considered just in the west.

Just cause
The reason for going to war needs to be just and cannot therefore be solely for recapturing things taken or punishing people who have done wrong; innocent life must be in imminent danger and intervention must be to protect life. A contemporary view of just cause was expressed in 1993 when the US Catholic Conference said: "Force may be used only to correct a grave, public evil, i.e., aggression or massive violation of the basic human rights of whole populations."
Comparative justice
While there may be rights and wrongs on all sides of a conflict, to override the presumption against the use of force, the injustice suffered by one party must significantly outweigh that suffered by the other. Some theorists such as Brian Orend omit this term, seeing it as fertile ground for exploitation by bellicose regimes.
Legitimate authority
Only duly constituted public authorities may wage war.
Right intention
Force may be used only in a truly just cause and solely for that purpose—correcting a suffered wrong is considered a right intention, while material gain or maintaining economies is not.
Probability of success
Arms may not be used in a futile cause or in a case where disproportionate measures are required to achieve success;
Last resort
Force may be used only after all peaceful and viable alternatives have been seriously tried and exhausted or are clearly not practical. It may be clear that the other side is using negotiations as a delaying tactic and will not make meaningful concessions.
Proportionality
The anticipated benefits of waging a war must be proportionate to its expected evils or harms. This principle is also known as the principle of macro-proportionality, so as to distinguish it from the jus in bello principle of proportionality.

[Viewpoint]

I believe that Turkish nationalist pride will place Cyprus well above a Favoured Nation status that Turkey may or may not receive. I can't see this gaining us many concessions from Turkey.

In any event, we must still be prepared for the alternative, should the need arise.

I agree Turkey will place the TRNC above the EU the opeinign of the ports is a prime example. Never under estimate Turkey she is always at her best when placed into a corner.

As for your liberation planes go ahead but dont forget we to will have to defend ourselves as we did when you wanted to gift the island to Greece, we to will fight back with everything we have it will not be a pretty picture do you want to push your people into the fire yet again? you made that mistake before yet you still come back for more.

[Simon]

I do not completely agree with the criteria above. In any event, much of it is satisfied in this instance.

I believe that freeing my country is a cause worth fighting for. If others do not, then there is nothing more to say. Just remember that quote in my first post on this thread.

I have said my piece on this, I will now leave it to others.

P.S. To VP, absolutely I will come back for more. And will keep coming back until my country is free. Do not think you can ever scare me into signing away my country. "I would rather live a day as a lion than a thousand years as a sheep".

[Viewpoint]

I do not completely agree with the criteria above. In any event, much of it is satisfied in this instance.

I believe that freeing my country is a cause worth fighting for. If others do not, then there is nothing more to say. Just remember that quote in my first post on this thread.

I have said my piece on this, I will now leave it to others.

You have thrown the subject yet you run away when challenged typical GC.

[Simon]

I have said my piece and have already dealt with many challenges, including your pathetic attempt VP. I wanted to open a debate, and ask the question, which is what I have done. I now want to hear others. I do not need to run away from anything. Especially not you VP, you are hardly an intellectual challenge.

[insan]

den,

whether GCs have nationalists or not is irrelevant. I'm not saying one is better than the other. Christofias is not a nationalist. What I'm saying is with Talat, we have the best chance of a negotiated settlement. And we still can't agree on any major issue. What happens when the EU carrot is taken away from Turkey, or if Turkey no longer wants to join the EU? Public opinion is already moving in this direction.

Perhaps steps should be taken to change public opinion in the right direction. More Pressure should be put on Turkey by the USA if the others' carrot has failed.

Talk of guerilla warfare is non-sensical.

First of all, Deniz, EU is not a carrot for anyone. EU is the first step of globalization project and needs to be completed in order to switch to the next step which is globalization of middle east. There r 2 main political groups in EU. One of them, namely Christian Democrats; does not want Turkey to join EU as a full member mainly beacause of religous factors and large population of Turkey. Turkey, as a laic-secular state, aimed to westernization since it's foundation; has always been an important ally of western alliance. The only obstacle in front of Turkey's EU accession is the Christian Democrats; the rest is just excuses that only ordinary people believe.

Turkey can't desist from joining EU because of the westernization policy that has been one of the most significant national cause since her foundation. EU needs Turkey more than Turkey needs EU. This is a crystal clear fact but as long as Turkey is in western alliance she will do her best to join EU as a full member. Expecting and pressurizing Turkey to force TCs to accept minority status for TCs in order to open her own way into EU is just a big waste of time; moreover a destructive behavior harmful to western alliance.

As I stated previously, if even one day majority of the states in Western Alliance dare to harm the interests of Turkey; Turkey would not hesitate to
form another alliance in a huge territory from middle east to far east.

[Viewpoint]

I have said my piece and have already dealt with many challenges, including your pathetic attempt VP. I wanted to open a debate, and ask the question, which is what I have done. I now want to hear others. I do not need to run away from anything. Especially not you VP, you are hardly an intellectual challenge.

Thats because you are on a lower level and have to revert to insults rather than argue your point and listen to counter arguements whether you agree with them or not. How old are you 15???

[bill cobbett]

I do not completely agree with the criteria above. In any event, much of it is satisfied in this instance.

I believe that freeing my country is a cause worth fighting for. If others do not, then there is nothing more to say. Just remember that quote in my first post on this thread.

I have said my piece on this, I will now leave it to others.

P.S. To VP, absolutely I will come back for more. And will keep coming back until my country is free. Do not think you can ever scare me into signing away my country. "I would rather live a day as a lion than a thousand years as a sheep".

All the criteria must be fully met.The pass mark is 100%
My view is that some of the criteria are only partly met and one, the "Last Resort" one, is not met at all.

[Simon]

Says who?

Have all those ever been met in 99% of wars fought? I seriously doubt it. I do not agree that this criteria should even be considered valid. There are many 'just wars' that may not satisfy all of the above. What is 'just' is nothing more than an opinion.

[Simon]

I am on a lower level and resort to insults? You accused me of running away and made a racist comment about me being a typical GC. And this was not insulting me first? Go and argue with someone on your IQ level VP.