Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

EOKA would not be needed if the Imperialists (British/Turks) had accepted to allow the Cypriot people to decide themselves the destiny of their own island in a peaceful and democratic way, something which was our right and which we have been asking for many many decades.

Union of Cyprus with Greece as well as EOKA were supported by the vast majority of the Cypriot people. It was a revolution of Cypriots against the Imperialists, a revolution that probably had more popular support than many other revolutions (American, French, Russian etc).

As always is the case, revolutions are not contacted based on the "rules of war", and the revolutionaries are not as organized as a regular army. Therefore if you look at all revolutions you will see that the revolutionaries had often committed crimes which were unrelated to their cause. Of course this fact is forgotten once the revolution is successful, and all that remains is the glory.

The Imperialists/Royalists will always call "terrorists" (or the equivalent for the era) those people that revolt against them. And as always there are groups of people who will side with the Imperialists, like Bannaiots and the TC minority, just like in the USA revolution there were the "Loyalists", and in the French and Russian revolutions the "Royalists", there was no revolution that had the 100% support of the people, and the 80% support that the cause of Union with Greece and EOKA had among the Cypriot population must be one of the highest.

And I repeat: If the Imperialists had allowed the Cypriot people to decide themselves in a democratic way the destiny of their own island, then no revolution would be needed. So if you want to blame somebody for the revolution, you should blame the Imperialists who oppressed the Cypriot people and gave them no other way to hope for freedom other than revolting.

[Piratis]

It is obvious to anybody with more than a grain of brain that a true solution that will unify our island and give our land and rights to us can not be achieved with negotiations under the current balance of power.

At the same time Cyprus is too small to go on a direct one-on-one war with Turkey, and we definitely don't want to enter a war that 10s of thousands of people will die, hoping that doing so will somehow liberate Cyprus (i doubt it will).

Our strategy must be much more planned than that. Here is the policy I believe that Cyprus and Greece should be taking:

1) Everybody should understand the obvious, that with negotiations there will be no real solution. Therefore we shouldn't do anything during the negotiations that could help upgrade the other side, hoping that by being the "good boys" they will like us and accepted a fairer solution. They are only using the negotiations to upgrade themselves, and we should keep this in mind. Negotiations should continue and we should insist on democracy and human rights, pointing out to the world that a solution can not be achieved because the Turks reject these universally accepted principles.

2) Turkey is a torn country. Torn between Turks and Kurds, and also torn between Secularists and Islamists. Just like the used the TC minority in order to divide our island, we should use similar methods in order to divide them. For starters we should invest money in the education of the Kurdish children that live abroad (millions of them) and help them to create an even stronger national Kurdish identity. We will help the educated Kurds to teach the rest of their population about Kurdistan and about the right for freedom from the Turkish oppressors. Later on we should also help the Kurds to arm themselves and help them with information on where to strike in order to cause the biggest problems to Turkey.

Also the Turks themselves should be further divided by helping the Islamists to became more powerful and more radical.

3) We should keep Turkey in her accession process for some time because this can help us to create the divisions within Turkey I talked above, and then in the right time help the other EU states to terminate the EU accession of Turkey. The termination of the EU accession for Turkey will have extremely negative consequences to their economy.

4) In Cyprus we should do more against those who exploit the lands they stole for us. After we will win the Orams case, we should embark in a legal war against those who illegally purchased properties in occupied Cyprus. At the same time we should find ways to help reduce the funding the the pseudo state receives in other ways, such as opening casinos on our side, and making it more difficult for GCs to cross and spent money in the occupied areas.

5) We should create better relations with other countries, including the USA but also the neighbors of Turkey, such as Syria and Iran. When Turkey will turn more Islamic it will be closer to these other countries (and further from the West) and this is good for us, but keeping good relationships with those other Muslim countries can reduce the benefits that Turkey can receive from being more Islamic.

6) We should build a better army because what we have now is crap. As I said we can not win Turkey when one-on-one, but if we help create the right amount of conflict within Turkey, or even between Turkey and others, then we can easily outnumber the Turkish forces on the island and if they will be unable to reinforce themselves from Turkey then we can have a good chance in reclaiming our lands. This operation could even be part of a larger operation from the West to end the inter-communal conflict within Turkey by dividing Turkey into Turkey and Kurdistan.

What I say is probable, and many of these are even possible without us doing anything. But by having the right policy we can help to push things in a direction that we want, and we will be more prepared to take advantage of a different kind of balance of power in the region.

[YFred]

It is obvious to anybody with more than a grain of brain that a true solution that will unify our island and give our land and rights to us can not be achieved with negotiations under the current balance of power.

At the same time Cyprus is too small to go on a direct one-on-one war with Turkey, and we definitely don't want to enter a war that 10s of thousands of people will die, hoping that doing so will somehow liberate Cyprus (i doubt it will).

Our strategy must be much more planned than that. Here is the policy I believe that Cyprus and Greece should be taking:

1) Everybody should understand the obvious, that with negotiations there will be no real solution. Therefore we shouldn't do anything during the negotiations that could help upgrade the other side, hoping that by being the "good boys" they will like us and accepted a fairer solution. They are only using the negotiations to upgrade themselves, and we should keep this in mind. Negotiations should continue and we should insist on democracy and human rights, pointing out to the world that a solution can not be achieved because the Turks reject these universally accepted principles.

2) Turkey is a torn country. Torn between Turks and Kurds, and also torn between Secularists and Islamists. Just like the used the TC minority in order to divide our island, we should use similar methods in order to divide them. For starters we should invest money in the education of the Kurdish children that live abroad (millions of them) and help them to create an even stronger national Kurdish identity. We will help the educated Kurds to teach the rest of their population about Kurdistan and about the right for freedom from the Turkish oppressors. Later on we should also help the Kurds to arm themselves and help them with information on where to strike in order to cause the biggest problems to Turkey.

Also the Turks themselves should be further divided by helping the Islamists to became more powerful and more radical.

3) We should keep Turkey in her accession process for some time because this can help us to create the divisions within Turkey I talked above, and then in the right time help the other EU states to terminate the EU accession of Turkey. The termination of the EU accession for Turkey will have extremely negative consequences to their economy.

4) In Cyprus we should do more against those who exploit the lands they stole for us. After we will win the Orams case, we should embark in a legal war against those who illegally purchased properties in occupied Cyprus. At the same time we should find ways to help reduce the funding the the pseudo state receives in other ways, such as opening casinos on our side, and making it more difficult for GCs to cross and spent money in the occupied areas.

5) We should create better relations with other countries, including the USA but also the neighbors of Turkey, such as Syria and Iran. When Turkey will turn more Islamic it will be closer to these other countries (and further from the West) and this is good for us, but keeping good relationships with those other Muslim countries can reduce the benefits that Turkey can receive from being more Islamic.

6) We should build a better army because what we have now is crap. As I said we can not win Turkey when one-on-one, but if we help create the right amount of conflict within Turkey, or even between Turkey and others, then we can easily outnumber the Turkish forces on the island and if they will be unable to reinforce themselves from Turkey then we can have a good chance in reclaiming our lands. This operation could even be part of a larger operation from the West to end the inter-communal conflict within Turkey by dividing Turkey into Turkey and Kurdistan.

What I say is probable, and many of these are even possible without us doing anything. But by having the right policy we can help to push things in a direction that we want, and we will be more prepared to take advantage of a different kind of balance of power in the region.

How long are you prepared to see if you are right? And the above can happen? 10 Million years
Dream on.

[denizaksulu]

+Piratis.

What is the count now Bananiot?

Turkey is shaking in its boots.

[CopperLine]

It is lucky that this is a joke thread in which Get Real, Simon et. al are just taking the piss out of themselves or else many contributors on this thread could be charged with conspiracy.

You think that I'm joking ? All of those of you posting from the UK or other EU countries might like to know that there are dozens of British citizens currently serving jail sentences under 'anti-terror' legislation for expressing far milder suggestions about the possible use of violence.

[YFred]

It is lucky that this is a joke thread in which Get Real, Simon et. al are just taking the piss out of themselves or else many contributors on this thread could be charged with conspiracy.

You think that I'm joking ? All of those of you posting from the UK or other EU countries might like to know that there are dozens of British citizens currently serving jail sentences under 'anti-terror' legislation for expressing far milder suggestions about the possible use of violence.

Some without trial too.

[kurupetos]

To Whom It May Concern:
On the first day of the liberation war we will execute the dissidents and the turncoats.

K. Isn't this what got Markarios kicked out in the first place in 74?

Dunno any Markarios!

[kurupetos]

It is lucky that this is a joke thread in which Get Real, Simon et. al are just taking the piss out of themselves or else many contributors on this thread could be charged with conspiracy.

You think that I'm joking ? All of those of you posting from the UK or other EU countries might like to know that there are dozens of British citizens currently serving jail sentences under 'anti-terror' legislation for expressing far milder suggestions about the possible use of violence.

You idiot, we are talking about liberation and restoration of democracy and freedom on our island.

[Tim Drayton]

[...]
For starters we should invest money in the education of the Kurdish children that live abroad (millions of them) and help them to create an even stronger national Kurdish identity. We will help the educated Kurds to teach the rest of their population about Kurdistan and about the right for freedom from the Turkish oppressors.
[...]

Just curious, do you plan to educate all of these Kurdish children in the Kurmanji or Sorani dialect of Kurdish, which are mutually incomprehensible, or in both of these depending on which dialect they speak? If you do the later, perhaps you will only stress how heterogenous the people who are classified together as Kurdish really are and defeat your own purpose.

What about speakers of languages such as Zaza and Gurani, considered by many chauvenistic Kurds to be dialects of Kurdish but considered to be languages in their own right by most of the people who speak these languages? Do you plan to teach their children Kurdish, too, and if so which dialect? It is interesting to note that when in Germany, which has a policy of giving immigrant children some instruction in their native languages in state schools, the children of Zaza speakers were forced to learn Kurmaji Kurdish their parents protested strongly and succeeded in having them taught Turkish instead.

I get the feeling you have only ever spoken to Kurdish refugees from Turkey living in the West, and that is why you have such a perverse understanding of the Kurdish question in Turkey. Many of these refugees are really economic migrants and exploit their Kurdish ethnicity to get assylum. For this reason, they have to make it appear that they are commited to the Kurdish national cause and that they suffered oppression back home. I have reason to believe that quite a few citizens of the Republic of Turkey who claim to be Kurds in order to get assylum are not even Kurds. In the UK, interpreting facilities are available for assylum seekers in both Turkish and Kurdish. It is odd that so many assylum seekers claiming to be Kurdish opt for Turkish interpreters. I have worked in pulic service interpreting in the UK, so I know from experience.

Actually, the main fault line in Anatolia that has created tension and lead to outbreaks of conflict over the past four centuries is neither the dispute between Turks and Kurds nor between Islamists and Secularists, but another. And you don't know what it is. What a shame.

[Get Real!]

It is lucky that this is a joke thread in which Get Real, Simon et. al are just taking the piss out of themselves or else many contributors on this thread could be charged with conspiracy.

You think that I'm joking ? All of those of you posting from the UK or other EU countries might like to know that there are dozens of British citizens currently serving jail sentences under 'anti-terror' legislation for expressing far milder suggestions about the possible use of violence.

Be careful you don't get your knickers in a twist Copperline... you should spend some time reading what those laws say before assuming they apply to internal political issues of Cyprus.