Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

If the population of Cyprus was declared "American" in our Constitution, if Cyprus was settled by Americans in ancient times and the American culture persisted in Cyprus ever since, if we shared a language with America since ancient times, if ancient American Gods were said to have been born in Cyprus, if we shared a religion with America, if the majority of the population of Cyprus had wanted to become a part of the USA but it was denied to them due to foreign interference, if the people of Cyprus had fought for the independence of America because they believed themselves to be American, if the people of Cyprus celebrated American Independence Day as if it were there own etc etc, then I think the cultural process would be "official" GR

Does the majority of the people of the Falkland Islands or Gibraltar regard themselves as British? You bet they do.

Is there any other country in the world that; speaks Greek, its religion is Greek Orthodox, the majority of its population has been declared Greek in its Constitution, shares a national anthem with Greece, shares in the celebrations of national Greek holidays with Greece, watches the same tv as Greece, listens to the same music, eats a lot of the same food, has Greek flags all over its territory etc etc, other than Cyprus?

The Greek culture today is largely localised to the Greeks, unlike the American culture which is worldwide, and yet the Cypriots still follow it, wonder why?

[yialousa1971]

So what evidence do you have that the Greeks build their Greek civilisation in Greece and around Greece, on some unknown predecessors whom they beat up, eradicated completely, and set themselves up in their place?

Yes reputations of warriors and such like are prone to interpretation, like the Romans' attempts to nullify Cleopatra's Greek descendancy to justify their attack ... but whole civilisations, completely made, up as you are suggesting!

As an example, the Kingdom of Macedonia was a distinct kingdom from Greece yet later when Alexander the Great amalgamated them, it was the Greeks who claimed ancestry to Alexander because Greece grew stronger over the centuries, retained some of the former Macedonian land, and were able to dig up and present artifacts as their own! Such border shifting was very common in the past and proved very convenient for some who later found themselves in a position and at the right time to officially write history.

Wrong fool, Alexander declared himself a Hellen fool!

Speech of Alexander the Great to the Athenians ----> Herodotus Book IX ,45,

HAD I NOT GREATLY AT HEART THE COMMON WELFARE OF GREECE, I SHOULD NOT HAVE COME TO TELL YOU; BUT I AM MYSELF A GREEK BY DESCENT AND WOULD NOT WILLINGLY SEE GREECE EXCHANGE FREEDOM FOR SLAVERY.

[Oracle]

So what evidence do you have that the Greeks build their Greek civilisation in Greece and around Greece, on some unknown predecessors whom they beat up, eradicated completely, and set themselves up in their place?

Yes reputations of warriors and such like are prone to interpretation, like the Romans' attempts to nullify Cleopatra's Greek descendancy to justify their attack ... but whole civilisations, completely made, up as you are suggesting!

As an example, the Kingdom of Macedonia was a distinct kingdom from Greece yet later when Alexander the Great amalgamated them, it was the Greeks who claimed ancestry to Alexander because Greece grew stronger over the centuries, retained some of the former Macedonian land, and were able to dig up and present artifacts as their own! Such border shifting was very common in the past and proved very convenient for some who later found themselves in a position and at the right time to officially write history.

So what you are now repeating is what we all know. That Greece was a series of kingdoms which eventually amalgamated as the Hellenic fold. That you accept this is testament to the accuracy of the bulk of our history, especially once records were kept (as they were for this part of history), and pieced together with other finds, present the picture pretty much as we portray it.

You have just done a U-turn!

Kalinihta .... I just knew you are a typical Greek hero, tormented by his past!

[Simon]

[quote]As an example, the Kingdom of Macedonia was a distinct kingdom from Greece yet later when Alexander the Great amalgamated them, it was the Greeks who claimed ancestry to Alexander because Greece grew stronger over the centuries, retained some of the former Macedonian land, and were able to dig up and present artifacts as their own! Such border shifting was very common in the past and proved very convenient for some who later found themselves in a position and at the right time to officially write history.[/quote]


What are you talking about, a couple of centuries later Greece was conquered by Rome; how is that Greece growing stronger over the centuries? Even the Romans knew Alexander was Greek! Alexander stated himself that he was Greek! Again I ask you, if the Macedonians were different, why didn't Alexander spread Macedonian culture and language rather than Greek? Why is this period known as Hellenistic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_civilization

[Get Real!]

So what evidence do you have that the Greeks build their Greek civilisation in Greece and around Greece, on some unknown predecessors whom they beat up, eradicated completely, and set themselves up in their place?

Yes reputations of warriors and such like are prone to interpretation, like the Romans' attempts to nullify Cleopatra's Greek descendancy to justify their attack ... but whole civilisations, completely made, up as you are suggesting!

As an example, the Kingdom of Macedonia was a distinct kingdom from Greece yet later when Alexander the Great amalgamated them, it was the Greeks who claimed ancestry to Alexander because Greece grew stronger over the centuries, retained some of the former Macedonian land, and were able to dig up and present artifacts as their own! Such border shifting was very common in the past and proved very convenient for some who later found themselves in a position and at the right time to officially write history.

Wrong fool, Alexander declared himself a Hellen fool!

Speech of Alexander the Great to the Athenians ----> Herodotus Book IX ,45,

HAD I NOT GREATLY AT HEART THE COMMON WELFARE OF GREECE, I SHOULD NOT HAVE COME TO TELL YOU; BUT I AM MYSELF A GREEK BY DESCENT AND WOULD NOT WILLINGLY SEE GREECE EXCHANGE FREEDOM FOR SLAVERY.

Herodotus wrote that? Even though he died about 100 years before Alexander was born?

[Get Real!]

As an example, the Kingdom of Macedonia was a distinct kingdom from Greece yet later when Alexander the Great amalgamated them, it was the Greeks who claimed ancestry to Alexander because Greece grew stronger over the centuries, retained some of the former Macedonian land, and were able to dig up and present artifacts as their own! Such border shifting was very common in the past and proved very convenient for some who later found themselves in a position and at the right time to officially write history.

What are you talking about, a couple of centuries later Greece was conquered by Rome; how is that Greece growing stronger over the centuries? Even the Romans knew Alexander was Greek! Alexander stated himself that he was Greek! Again I ask you, if the Macedonians were different, why didn't Alexander spread Macedonian culture and language rather than Greek? Why is this period known as Hellenistic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_civilization

Alexander was born in a kingdom that had no relation to Greece until later when he himself united them. In other words, when he was born his birth occurred on non-Greek territory.

Anyway, the constant resizing of kingdoms and shifting of borders made it convenient much later for some to make certain historical claims and/or chide others.

[Simon]

Get Real wrote:

[quote]Alexander was born in a Kingdom that had no relation to Greece[/quote]

If that is so, why was King Philip given a Greek name?
Why was his mother, Olympias, given a Greek name? (She was originally from Epirus, another northern Greek kingdom).
Why was Alexander given a Greek name?
Why did King Philip believe he descended from Heracles, a mythical Greek hero?
Why did Olympias believe she descended from Achilles, another mythical Greek hero?
Why was Alexander taught by Aristotle, a Greek thinker?
Why does almost every leading expert in this field regard Alexander as Greek?
Why did Alexander spread Greek culture and language, rather than that of his home, Macedonia?
Why did the Macedonian Royal Family, known as the Argead dynasty, claim Greek descent from Argos in the Peloponnese?
Why was his Father, King Philip, amongst many other Macedonians, allowed to participate in the Olympic games, when only Greeks were allowed to participate?

Macedonians, who participated in the Olympics at Olympia, were as follows:

• King Alexander I, in the 80th Olympics, in 460 BCE. He run the “Stadion” and was placed very close second.

• King Arhelaos Perdikas, competed in the 93rd Olympics, in 408 BCE and won at Delphi the race of the four-horse chariot.

• King Philip II was an Olympic champion three times. In the 106th Olympics, in 356 BCE, he won the race, riding his horse. In the 107th Olympics, in 352 BCE, he won the four-horse chariot race. In the 108th Olympics, in 348 BCE, he was the winner of the two colt chariot.

• Cliton run the Stadion in the 113rd Olympics, in 328 BCE.

• Damasias from Amphipolis won in the Stadion in the 115th Olympics, in 320 BCE.

• Lampos from Philippi, was proclaimed a winner in the four-horse chariot race in the 119th Olympics, in 304 BCE.

• Antigonos won in the Stadion race, in the 122nd Olympics, in 292 BCE and in the 123rd Olympics in 288 BCE.

• Seleucos won in the field-sports competition in the 128th Olympics in 268 BCE.

• During the 128th Olympics, in 268 BCE and in the 129th Olympics, in 264 BCE, a woman from Macedonia won the competition. Pausanias mentions that: “…it is said that the race of the two-colt chariot was won by a woman, named Velestihi from the seashores of Macedonia”.

Moreover:

Macedonians had the same language, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same religion, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians used the same architecture, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians served the same arts, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians used the same names, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same traditions, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same myths, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same heroes, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same rituals, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same customs, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians were Greeks.

[Murataga]

As an example, the Kingdom of Macedonia was a distinct kingdom from Greece yet later when Alexander the Great amalgamated them, it was the Greeks who claimed ancestry to Alexander because Greece grew stronger over the centuries, retained some of the former Macedonian land, and were able to dig up and present artifacts as their own! Such border shifting was very common in the past and proved very convenient for some who later found themselves in a position and at the right time to officially write history.

What are you talking about, a couple of centuries later Greece was conquered by Rome; how is that Greece growing stronger over the centuries? Even the Romans knew Alexander was Greek! Alexander stated himself that he was Greek! Again I ask you, if the Macedonians were different, why didn't Alexander spread Macedonian culture and language rather than Greek? Why is this period known as Hellenistic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_civilization

Alexander was born in a kingdom that had no relation to Greece until later when he himself united them. In other words, when he was born his birth occurred on non-Greek territory.

Anyway, the constant resizing of kingdoms and shifting of borders made it convenient much later for some to make certain historical claims and/or chide others.

Get Real! - I am asking this out of sheer curiosity, no disrespect: On the average, it seems that you have written 17 posts on ths forum for every single day of your life since you joined roughly two years ago. Are you unemployed? Do you get paid to write here? What is the story?

[denizaksulu]

You are right GR, the thousands of pieces of evidence and magnificient architecture etc, testifying to the magnificent ancient Greek civilisation is all just a figment of everyone's imagination.

Five or ten thousand years from now, archeologists will be uncovering fragments of F22-Raptors buried all over Afghanistan and will be forgiven for surmising that the ancient Afghanis of the 21st century were at the forefront of technology!

What you find under ground doesn’t always tell the true story…

No one uses one piece of "credible evidence" to draw up thousands of years of history!

The limits of your inability to grasp the holistics of history and anthropology are breathless in their inanity ...


Admit it GR! ... you are a merely a militant and not an academic.

When we take into consideration (1) who writes the history of any given place, (2) how much of it is convenient speculation, and (3) how much more was lost as a result of successive rulers removing traces of their beaten enemies… you start to realize that what we’ve got in our history books today is a nice Greek salad! (pun intended)

So what evidence do you have that the Greeks build their Greek civilisation in Greece and around Greece, on some unknown predecessors whom they beat up, eradicated completely, and set themselves up in their place?

Yes reputations of warriors and such like are prone to interpretation, like the Romans' attempts to nullify Cleopatra's Greek descendancy to justify their attack ... but whole civilisations, completely made, up as you are suggesting!

I would buy it ... if there was an ounce of evidence, instead of you just behaving like Bananiot to re-write history, because you are too afraid to face the Turks any longer!

Wow Oracle, thats a bit strong. GR is as patriotic as any other Cypriot and wlling to sacrifice his life for Cyprus

[denizaksulu]

Get Real wrote:

Alexander was born in a Kingdom that had no relation to Greece

If that is so, why was King Philip given a Greek name?
Why was his mother, Olympias, given a Greek name? (She was originally from Epirus, another northern Greek kingdom).
Why was Alexander given a Greek name?
Why did King Philip believe he descended from Heracles, a mythical Greek hero?
Why did Olympias believe she descended from Achilles, another mythical Greek hero?
Why was Alexander taught by Aristotle, a Greek thinker?
Why does almost every leading expert in this field regard Alexander as Greek?
Why did Alexander spread Greek culture and language, rather than that of his home, Macedonia?
Why did the Macedonian Royal Family, known as the Argead dynasty, claim Greek descent from Argos in the Peloponnese?
Why was his Father, King Philip, amongst many other Macedonians, allowed to participate in the Olympic games, when only Greeks were allowed to participate?

Macedonians, who participated in the Olympics at Olympia, were as follows:

• King Alexander I, in the 80th Olympics, in 460 BCE. He run the “Stadion” and was placed very close second.

• King Arhelaos Perdikas, competed in the 93rd Olympics, in 408 BCE and won at Delphi the race of the four-horse chariot.

• King Philip II was an Olympic champion three times. In the 106th Olympics, in 356 BCE, he won the race, riding his horse. In the 107th Olympics, in 352 BCE, he won the four-horse chariot race. In the 108th Olympics, in 348 BCE, he was the winner of the two colt chariot.

• Cliton run the Stadion in the 113rd Olympics, in 328 BCE.

• Damasias from Amphipolis won in the Stadion in the 115th Olympics, in 320 BCE.

• Lampos from Philippi, was proclaimed a winner in the four-horse chariot race in the 119th Olympics, in 304 BCE.

• Antigonos won in the Stadion race, in the 122nd Olympics, in 292 BCE and in the 123rd Olympics in 288 BCE.

• Seleucos won in the field-sports competition in the 128th Olympics in 268 BCE.

• During the 128th Olympics, in 268 BCE and in the 129th Olympics, in 264 BCE, a woman from Macedonia won the competition. Pausanias mentions that: “…it is said that the race of the two-colt chariot was won by a woman, named Velestihi from the seashores of Macedonia”.

Moreover:

Macedonians had the same language, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same religion, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians used the same architecture, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians served the same arts, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians used the same names, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same traditions, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same myths, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same heroes, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same rituals, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians had the same customs, as all other Greeks

• Macedonians were Greeks.

Reminds me of Hitler the Austrian, somehow. A quirk of history.

I must look into the modern Macedonian language. My Macedonian neighbour Zoe claims Greek is unintelligible to her. She is a graduate, and no idiot. I know Zoe is a Greek name.