Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

No I wasn't calling you a racist ... but I hate it when people cling to old beliefs, preferring "historical" views to new scientific research which can lay to rest old adversarial divisions ....

I started off with the broad view that those of the British Isles are from the same stock of people (previously known as Celts) and you accused me of scouring the net to back it up. I posted a thread from a while back where I also expressed that view.

Yeah it's difficult to cover every angle and invasion, in the space of a few posts, and I certainly don't want to spend ages updating all the gene-linkage data to prove the point, when a recent credible source will suffice (unlike your Wiki outdated link).

As I've already said, it's up to the Brits/Irish to sort it out, but if they all wanted to get together under the same banner ... they have good reason to! If they want to!

Anyway, just don't mention the bloody Pope .....

[Mr. T]

No different than EOKA.

Symptoms of colonialism. Difficult to thwart man's desire for freedom ....

Have you ever seen me attack EOKA, by denying them the right to fight for freedom? I might have mentioned their tactics of shooting women in the back though.

Absurd Deniz. That was hardly a "tactic" .. and knowing the history a little better now, I wouldn't put it past the TMT ... kill and blame someone else. Nasty and cowardly!
.

Absolutely pathetic attempt making up some obscene theory and inferring that the TMT were being cowardly when it was GC terrorists who were the cowards in the extreme, in killing this woman.

On this basis you will be saying next that it wasn't Germans who murdered 6 million in concentration camps but Turks disguised in German uniforms.

[Oracle]

No different than EOKA.

Symptoms of colonialism. Difficult to thwart man's desire for freedom ....

Have you ever seen me attack EOKA, by denying them the right to fight for freedom? I might have mentioned their tactics of shooting women in the back though.

Absurd Deniz. That was hardly a "tactic" .. and knowing the history a little better now, I wouldn't put it past the TMT ... kill and blame someone else. Nasty and cowardly!
.

Absolutely pathetic attempt making up some obscene theory and inferring that the TMT were being cowardly when it was GC terrorists who were the cowards in the extreme, in killing this woman.

On this basis you will be saying next that it wasn't Germans who murdered 6 million in concentration camps but Turks disguised in German uniforms.

Hmmm you have a point Mr. T ... The Turks were as good as allied with the Germans ......

I wonder if the Israelis need a little reminder of that too!

[Simon]

Oracle,

You are still making the mistake of accepting the view of some noted in this article as established fact. It clearly isn't yet. Many do not agree with its findings. The article itself states that there are evidential problems. I said you were scouring the net because this article even contradicted your previously held views, and I had already posted a link about Oppenheimer's work. This work is basically saying the Irish are not Celts, when there is a wealth of evidence suggesting that they are. The Wikipedia link is not outdated; historically, what I posted from Wikipedia is still the widely accepted view. In any event, the most important thing with regards to identity is the perception.

The Republic of Ireland will certainly not want to reunite with the UK, that I can assure you!

[Oracle]

Oracle,

You are still making the mistake of accepting the view of some noted in this article as established fact. It clearly isn't yet. Many do not agree with its findings. The article itself states that there are evidential problems. I said you were scouring the net because this article even contradicted your previously held views, and I had already posted a link about Oppenheimer's work. This work is basically saying the Irish are not Celts, when there is a wealth of evidence suggesting that they are. The Wikipedia link is not outdated; historically, what I posted from Wikipedia is still the accepted view.

The Republic of Ireland will certainly not want to reunite with the UK, that I can assure you!

It didn't contradict what I said just because it mentioned the older research of Oppenheimer as being superseded by the new findings. The genetic data would be beyond the scope of this thread, so make do with accepting that there will be simplified information to dispel your myths in due course ....

[Simon]

It did contradict what you said. You said in this thread that the English and Irish derived from Celts. You then posted Oppenheimer's work which directly contradicts this. It states that Celts were a later, minor addition.

When there is sufficient information, with little scope for doubt, is when I will accept it as genuine. At the moment, the article states that some only find it "plausible", where others "disagree".

[Oracle]

It did contradict what you said. You said in this thread that the English and Irish derived from Celts. You then posted Oppenheimer's work which directly contradicts this. It states that Celts were a later, minor addition.

When there is sufficient information, with little scope for doubt, is when I will accept it as genuine.

I didn't post his "work". He was in the article because it was showing how simplistic and outdated were his views!

[Simon]

Oracle,

Have you even read what you posted? I suggest you re-read it properly. It IS about Oppenheimer and his investigations! It says nothing about his work being outdated. The article you posted contradicted your views in the same thread.

[Oracle]

No it didn't .. go back and see the extract I re-posted in blue ...

Here's some more to add to the emerging theory that the people of Ireland and GB are more similar than previously thought (i.e by you).

Colin Burgess in his book the Age of Stonehenge theorized that Celtic culture in Britain 'emerged' rather than resulted from invasion and that the Celts were not invading aliens but the descendants of the people of Stonehenge. Support for this idea comes from the study by Cristian Capelli, David Goldstein and others at University College, London which shows that genes typical of Ireland are common in Great Britain and these genes are similar to the genes of the Basque people, who speak a non-Indo-European language. This similarity, they argue, shows that the non-Indo-European native inhabitants of Britain were not wiped out by invasions of either Indo-Europeans bringing farming or Celts in 600BC. They suggest that 'Celtic' culture and the Celtic language were imported to Britain by cultural contact not mass invasion. The genetic similarity is less marked in women in Britain who have a genetic makeup closer to that of Northern Europe —possibly because women tended to move to their husbands' homes.

http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Celts

[Simon]

The extract in blue has nothing to do with showing Oppenheimer's work as outdated either. I think we can safely say you cocked up there.

I'm glad you now regard it as an emerging theory. And not just thought by me, but by the vast majority of historians.