Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

No, not at all.

If you understood the situation in Northern Ireland, you would understand why. It bears little comparison to Cyprus.

By the way, you are wrong about another thing; the English and Irish are not one branch of the same people.

They are originally, most recently, Celts. Although the English were injected with some Viking (also went to Ireland) and Anglo-Saxon lately ... those Germanic groups are also from the same migratory group which split northwards and westwards over the channel several thousands of years ago. Their common original language links them strongly.

[Simon]

The Irish are mainly Celts.

The English are mainly anglo-saxons, Norse Vikings and Normans; who pushed the Celts out of England, hence Scotland and Wales (although this has been doubted recently by Oppenheimer).

The Irish adopted English due to English dominance in the region.

http://www.stedmundsbury.gov.uk/sebc/vi ... -865ad.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people

Even if you believe Oppenheimer's controversial views, the English and Irish are still from different branches:

"Stephen Oppenheimer shows us, in his meticulous analysis, that there is in truth a deep genetic line dividing the English from the rest of the British people but that, fascinatingly, the roots of that separate identity go back not 1500 years but 6,000.The real story of the British peoples is one of extraordinary continuity and enduring lineage that has survived all onslaughts".

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/steph ... itish.html


In fact, many Irish people would find your views offensive.

[Oracle]

The Irish are mainly Celts.

The English are mainly anglo-saxons, Norse Vikings and Normans (although this has been doubted recently by Oppenheimer).

The Irish adopted English due to English dominance in the region.

http://www.stedmundsbury.gov.uk/sebc/vi ... -865ad.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people

Even if you believe Oppenheimer's controversial views, the English and Irish are still from different branches:

"Stephen Oppenheimer shows us, in his meticulous analysis, that there is in truth a deep genetic line dividing the English from the rest of the British people but that, fascinatingly, the roots of that separate identity go back not 1500 years but 6,000.The real story of the British peoples is one of extraordinary continuity and enduring lineage that has survived all onslaughts".

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/steph ... itish.html


In fact, many Irish people would find your views offensive.

I don't care who finds my views offensive, I only care if they stand up to research.

I haven't time to do this justice but there is much more recent data than the Y-chromosome for migrationary tracking which complement those findings, but go a few steps further.

Maybe later.

[denizaksulu]

The Irish are mainly Celts.

The English are mainly anglo-saxons, Norse Vikings and Normans; who pushed the Celts out of England, hence Scotland and Wales (although this has been doubted recently by Oppenheimer).

The Irish adopted English due to English dominance in the region.

http://www.stedmundsbury.gov.uk/sebc/vi ... -865ad.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people

Even if you believe Oppenheimer's controversial views, the English and Irish are still from different branches:

"Stephen Oppenheimer shows us, in his meticulous analysis, that there is in truth a deep genetic line dividing the English from the rest of the British people but that, fascinatingly, the roots of that separate identity go back not 1500 years but 6,000.The real story of the British peoples is one of extraordinary continuity and enduring lineage that has survived all onslaughts".

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/steph ... itish.html


In fact, many Irish people would find your views offensive.

Simon says:Even if you believe Oppenheimer's controversial views, the English and Irish are still from different branches:

The Oracle is right as all branches have a point of convergence. (branches off a tree?).

[Simon]

Oracle,

There has been plenty of research. It is widely accepted that the English and Irish are not from the same branch (Celts). Of course, if you go back far enough, you will find common ancestry for every group of people.

[Simon]

But the Tree itself isn't the branch. A Tree has different branches.

Anyway, Oracle meant that the English and Irish are the same ethnic group, i.e. derived from Celts (I think), which is wrong. The English and Irish are not from ONE branch of the SAME people as she said. However, as I said earlier, if you go back far enough, every group has a common ancestor.

[Oracle]

But the Tree itself isn't the branch. A Tree has different branches.

Anyway, Oracle meant that the English and Irish are the same ethnic group, i.e. derived from Celts (I think), which is wrong. The English and Irish are not from ONE branch of the SAME people as she said. However, as I said earlier, if you go back far enough, every group has a common ancestor.

All Humans are derived from one mother (lived 150-200,000 years ago) ... then her descendants formed the first branch going east and west. All other sub-branches are from those two main branches of east and west. Here is the flow of the western branch through Europe ....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/scien ... .html?_r=1

[Simon]

That is not what you meant. You were talking about the English being from the Celtic branch, along with the Irish. This is why you said one branch of the SAME people. You are now playing games with words to try and wiggle your way out of your argument Indeed, you said it yourself:

[quote]Oracle wrote:
They are originally, most recently, Celts.[/quote]

Although, I'm not sure that even makes sense.


[quote]All Humans are derived from one mother (lived 150-200,000 years ago) ... then her descendants formed the first branch going east and west. All other sub-branches are from those two main branches of east and west. Here is the flow of the western branch through Europe .... [/quote]:


In which case the whole of the west is one branch; which in turn means that your argument about English and Irish doesn't actually mean anything.

[yialousa1971]

Why don't you all shut up, your all talking nonsense!

[purdey]

I was not in that area DT. I can only judge on what I saw, it has been the only place I have visited that still gives me nightmares.
From what I have heard there were many cases of brutalty in that conflict and the suffering was on a huge scale. The vast majority of the brutality was never reported and more than likely will never be.