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Darwin was banned on new issue: Bilim ve Teknik in Turkey

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Postby Oracle » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:14 pm

CopperLine wrote:A dilemma in UK universities because medical students refuse to attend lectures on evolution ? You're an idiot Oracackle.



And what are you CoproLie?


Academics fight rise of creationism at universities· More students believe Darwin got it wrong

· Royal Society challenges 'insidious problem'

Duncan Campbell
The Guardian, Tuesday 21 February 2006

Article history
A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.

Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

"There is an insidious and growing problem," said Professor Jones, of University College London. "It's a step back from rationality. They (the creationists) don't have a problem with science, they have a problem with argument. And irrationality is a very infectious disease as we see from the United States."

Professor David Read, vice-president and biological sciences secretary of the Royal Society, said that they felt it was essential to address the issue now: "We have asked Steve Jones to deliver his lecture on creationism and evolution because there continues to be controversy over how evolution and other aspects of science are taught in some UK schools, colleges and universities. Our education system should provide access to the knowledge and understanding gained through the scientific method of experiment and observation, such as the theory of evolution through natural selection, and should withstand attempts to withhold or misrepresent this knowledge in order to promote particular beliefs, religious or otherwise."

Leaflets questioning Darwinism were circulated among students at the Guys Hospital site of King's College London this month as part of the Islam Awareness Week, organised by the college's Islamic Society. One member of staff at Guys said that he found it deeply worrying that Darwin was being dismissed by people who would soon be practising as doctors.

The leaflets are produced by the Al-Nasr Trust, a Slough-based charity set up in 1992 with the aim of improving the understanding of Islam. The passage quoted from the Qur'an states: "And God has created every animal from water. Of them there are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs and some that walk on four. God creates what he wills for verily God has power over all things."

A 21-year-old medical student and member of the Islamic Society, who did not want to be named, said that the Qur'an was clear that man had been created and had not evolved as Darwin suggests. "There is no scientific evidence for it [Darwin's Origin of Species]. It's only a theory. Man is the wonder of God's creation."

He did not feel that a belief in evolution was necessary to study medicine although he added that, if writing about it was necessary for passing an exam, he would do so. "We want to become doctors and dentists, we want to pass our exams." He added that God had not created mankind literally in six days. "It's not six earth days," he said, it could refer to several thousands of years but it had been an act of creation and not evolution.

At another London campus some students have been failed because they have presented creationism as fact. They have been told by their examiners that, while they are entitled to explain both sides of the debate, they cannot present the Bible or Qur'an as scientifically factual if they want to pass exams.

David Rosevear of the Portsmouth-based Creation Science Movement, which supports the idea of creationism, said that there was an increasing interest in the subject among students. "I've got no problem with an all-powerful God producing everything in six days," he said. He said it was an early example of the six-day week. Students taking exams on the subject should not be dogmatic one way or the other. "I tell them - answer the question, it's no good saying it [creationism] is a fact any more than saying evolution is a fact."

A former lecturer in organic chemistry at Portsmouth polytechnic (now university) and ICI research scientist, Dr Rosevear said he had been invited to expound his theories at many colleges and had addressed the Cafe Scientifique, a student science society, at St Andrews university, Fife. "The students clearly came expecting to have a laugh but they found there was much more to it. Our attitude is - teach evolution but mention creationism and let students decide for themselves."

Most of the next generation of medical and science students could well be creationists, according to a biology teacher at a leading London sixth-form college. "The vast majority of my students now believe in creationism," she said, "and these are thinking young people who are able and articulate and not at the dim end at all. They have extensive booklets on creationism which they put in my pigeon-hole ... it's a bit like the southern states of America." Many of them came from Muslim, Pentecostal or Baptist family backgrounds, she said, and were intending to become pharmacists, doctors, geneticists and neuro-scientists.
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Postby CopperLine » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:33 pm

Read the bloody article Oracle !!!

"A form of argument involving an adversary in the choice of two (or, loosely, more) alternatives, either of which is (or appears) equally unfavourable to him. (The alternatives are commonly spoken of as the ‘horns’ of the dilemma.)" OED

The article does not say that it is a dilemma for UK universities as you asserted. What's the dilemma ? Is Steve Jones, for example, saying 'I don't know whether to teach creationism or evolution ? Oooh what a dilemma I'm in' No. He and other serious scientists are not in a dilemma; they are quite clear that evolution must continue to be taught and researched and that further effort must be made to combat the anti-scientific obscurantism of creationists and 'intelligent design'. There is no dilemma.

The article does not say the problem is one of medical students from Islamic countries as you asserted.

The article does not say that students refused to go to lectures on evolution as you asserted.

Yet again Oracackle fundamentally misreports and misleads : sheer dishonesty from her again.
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Postby Cem » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:38 pm

bill cobbett wrote:LIKE WITH LIKE ?

The charges are that a science funding agency of the RoT banned the publication of the Darwin Dossier so that there is the double charge of suppressing the theory and also of political interference with the journal.


Everything in this world is relative ! Some governments like the one in Turkey may openly attempt to ban Darwin while some others may simply "Keep Up Appearances" in the foreground.

So perhaps Cem could click his fingers and search out some recent example s where governments in RoG and USA have banned darwinism in the press?


I don't intend to compare RoG and RoT using the above article as a pretext. Simply as an EU member, RoG can not even think of fantasizing about it even if she wanted to ! Still, the article above shows that RoG has got a long way to go as well. As for RoT, at the moment government is getting its ass being whipped by the concerned parties ! They will reap what they sow. I will come up with further links about that.

As for the good ol' USA, I would be a bit more cautious in your place. Granted that in none of US states Evolution theory has ever been explicitly banned. However, considering some midwest and southern states where once KKK roamed free, Darwinists fared no better than "niggers".

Ever seen the movie "Inherit The Wind" starring Spencer Tracy ?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053946/

Teacher B.T. Cates is arrested for teaching Darwin's theories. Famous lawyer Henry Drummond defends him; fundamentalist politician Matthew Brady prosecutes. This is a very thinly disguised rendition of the 1925 "Scopes monkey trial" with debates between Clarence Darrow and William Jennings Bryan taken largely from the transcripts.

Like with like please otherwise we may as well compare the press in Iran or teaching of evolution in Mecca. Lower ourselves to the lowest level to justify a position


I am not trying to justify anything. It was I who opened this thread, remember ? Just wanted to remind that there are two sides of a coin to some people here who are too quick to jump on my thread to vomit their usual crap
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Postby Oracle » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:49 pm

CopperLine wrote:Read the bloody article Oracle !!!

"A form of argument involving an adversary in the choice of two (or, loosely, more) alternatives, either of which is (or appears) equally unfavourable to him. (The alternatives are commonly spoken of as the ‘horns’ of the dilemma.)" OED

The article does not say that it is a dilemma for UK universities as you asserted. What's the dilemma ? Is Steve Jones, for example, saying 'I don't know whether to teach creationism or evolution ? Oooh what a dilemma I'm in' No. He and other serious scientists are not in a dilemma; they are quite clear that evolution must continue to be taught and researched and that further effort must be made to combat the anti-scientific obscurantism of creationists and 'intelligent design'. There is no dilemma.

The article does not say the problem is one of medical students from Islamic countries as you asserted.

The article does not say that students refused to go to lectures on evolution as you asserted.

Yet again Oracackle fundamentally misreports and misleads : sheer dishonesty from her again.


Another generalised statement geered for attention from a lonely Coproliar.

First of all, read your post since it is only fit for the coprophagous, and digest that! .... Once again you have zero to add to the discussion.

If you think I am going to post an article for each and every one of your points, moulded to suit yourself, then you are seriously misguided.
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Postby CopperLine » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:03 am

Oracle you posted a claim which was basically untrue. You made it up. All I did was to point out that you made it up.

This was the latest in a long series of pure inventions and fantasies that you produce, all driven, it seems, by a hatred and a wish to demonise anything and everything Turkish or connected with Turkey. Of course I don't expect you to provide evidence for everything that I express a doubt about, but on this occasion you volunteered to produce evidence of your claim and even your own article contained no evidence of what you'd claimed. I simply pointed that out.

You don't like that your regular distortions and dishonesties are pointed out ?
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Postby Oracle » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:30 am

CopperLine wrote:Oracle you posted a claim which was basically untrue. You made it up. All I did was to point out that you made it up.

This was the latest in a long series of pure inventions and fantasies that you produce, all driven, it seems, by a hatred and a wish to demonise anything and everything Turkish or connected with Turkey. Of course I don't expect you to provide evidence for everything that I express a doubt about, but on this occasion you volunteered to produce evidence of your claim and even your own article contained no evidence of what you'd claimed. I simply pointed that out.

You don't like that your regular distortions and dishonesties are pointed out ?


No Copperline, on the contrary it is you who makes regular distortions and generalising remarks, taken out of context and disrupting other people's debates with your favourite word "bigot".

This (reply to Bananiot) is what you sabotaged::

oracle wrote:Are you one of these "smart" Biology teachers who would like to teach Evolution but is prevented merely because the Church has banned it? What nonsense. I seem to recall you had trouble with "imprinting" last time we had an in-depth discussion.

Of course I was not encouraging filling in with Googling, but not preventing Cem from doing so, since that is his wish.

I was actually reminding him that scientific articles can be published without such banning in Greece, where the information would be available for those wishing to extend themselves ... such as does not happen in Turkey.

Furthermore, there is a real dilemma at some Universities in the UK, where medical students from islamic countries refuse to attend lectures on Evolution.


And this is your zero contribution to the debate, over-generalised self-opinionated crap, which does not fit in with any of my above post ... yet I stupidly got drawn in, again, to provide some evidence, for comments worded by you! ... given limitless time, I could keep feeding your ever changing linguistics ... to make you feel important, you sad fool!

CopperLine wrote: Bananiot,
Oracackle is, as usual, just talking rubbish. She speaks out of sheer ignorance and bigotry.

Scientific articles can't be published in Turkey ? You're an idiot Oracle
A dilemma in UK universities because medical students refuse to attend lectures on evolution ? You're an idiot Oracackle

The ones you have to worry about when it comes to evolution are (a) the churches/religion (in Cyprus, in Greece, in UK, in Turkey, in Pakistan, in USA ....) and (b) the evangelical christians in UK education.


The article I pasted was completely satisfactory for what I said, and this thread of Cem's fills in the rest.

Now I could ask you to qualify your statements, but you never do ... because you never can. You just post generalised crap!
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Postby christos1 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:40 am

bill cobbett wrote:
paliometoxo wrote:my domain is .cy and in the north its .tr how can it think i am in the north.. paliometoxo is about 20-25 minutes to the trnc boarders depending on traffic


Oh dear, this is not good....Palio, go to your window and look outside. The Jurkish Army may have broken the cease-fire. If they have, pm GR and DT and they'll be around with the reservists and the BBQ. :D


Paliometoxo is right. I cant view the video either and i don't reside anywhere near the buffer zone. I seen this as well with Ataturk videos and music videos that may contain sexual content. I think that youtube applies a broad brush so to speak when it bows to pressure and decides to censure certain content. Perhaps youtube thinks because Cypriots live in a backward neighborhood we must be backward as well. Well some of us are but i wont be naming names, Bana.
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