Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

During my recent trip to the UK, I was made aware, that many TC's were taking "sudden" trips to the "trnc", in believing that the Oram's legal ruling by the ECHR was to become EU Law today, March 19th.....................or soon after.! I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law very soon which will turn the north upside-down on it's head, which will throw a "monkey wrench" in Talat's attempt to resolve the GC owned property issue by using compensation as a formula to make the north "Turkish Land". When this legal ruling becomes law, not even Christofias will be able to give Talat what he wants, because each individual GC owner of land in the north will also have a say so what goes on in the property negotiations. It will be as if Talat will be negotiating with Christifias as well as 200,000 GC refugees from then on.! But of course, that will come after the property market of GC land in the north is destroyed by this ruling that is.! At that point, all GC property in the north will become "Radioactive" to others, other than to it's rightful legal owners.!

Good luck, Mr. Talat.!

I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law ....

1. A ruling doesn't become law. A ruling or adjudication is the interpretation of law. ECHR or any other court is not a legislature, it is a judicial chamber interpreting laws. So when ECHR comes to a judgement it is clarifying and therefore interpreting the law.

2. Your reliable source evidently doesn't know the difference between the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe institution) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, which is the court of the European Union). The Oram's case is before the ECJ not the ECHR.

3. Therefore it cannot be the case that a decision on the Oram's was to become EU law as a result of an ECHR judgement. Wrong court, wrong understanding of the relationship between adjudication and law.

4. It was always going to be the case that whatever the terms of a political settlement between Talat and Christofias (or whoever) that individuals could still pursue human rights (or other cases) through national, EU, and international courts. Any result of the Oram's case - whichever way it goes (though more than likely to go 'against' the Orams) - will simply confirm this.

The Orams/Apostolides matter has been referred to the ECJ for a definitive judgement on the matter of enforcing a member state's court judgement in areas where the member state has effectively no practical recourse and some other related matters to do with service of documents and whether the Orams had due notice and due representation.

In interpreting existing legislation by making the judgement and by way of its definitive opinion the ECJ will be making a new EU-wide law by way of new "case law" in this area. A new case law which national courts will be able to refer to in future.

Not unusual for supreme courts to make new case laws, to fill in gaps in existing laws and give definitive interpretations.

Fair points Bill Cobbett maybe this isn't the place to debate the relative influence of case law and precedent in the English tradition of law on continental law. There is, in fact, a big debate in EU law and courts about the status of 'case law' in the development of law. You'll excuse me if I don't get into a debate about whether constitutional/supreme courts make 'new case law' or not

[bill cobbett]

During my recent trip to the UK, I was made aware, that many TC's were taking "sudden" trips to the "trnc", in believing that the Oram's legal ruling by the ECHR was to become EU Law today, March 19th.....................or soon after.! I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law very soon which will turn the north upside-down on it's head, which will throw a "monkey wrench" in Talat's attempt to resolve the GC owned property issue by using compensation as a formula to make the north "Turkish Land". When this legal ruling becomes law, not even Christofias will be able to give Talat what he wants, because each individual GC owner of land in the north will also have a say so what goes on in the property negotiations. It will be as if Talat will be negotiating with Christifias as well as 200,000 GC refugees from then on.! But of course, that will come after the property market of GC land in the north is destroyed by this ruling that is.! At that point, all GC property in the north will become "Radioactive" to others, other than to it's rightful legal owners.!

Good luck, Mr. Talat.!

I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law ....

1. A ruling doesn't become law. A ruling or adjudication is the interpretation of law. ECHR or any other court is not a legislature, it is a judicial chamber interpreting laws. So when ECHR comes to a judgement it is clarifying and therefore interpreting the law.

2. Your reliable source evidently doesn't know the difference between the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe institution) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, which is the court of the European Union). The Oram's case is before the ECJ not the ECHR.

3. Therefore it cannot be the case that a decision on the Oram's was to become EU law as a result of an ECHR judgement. Wrong court, wrong understanding of the relationship between adjudication and law.

4. It was always going to be the case that whatever the terms of a political settlement between Talat and Christofias (or whoever) that individuals could still pursue human rights (or other cases) through national, EU, and international courts. Any result of the Oram's case - whichever way it goes (though more than likely to go 'against' the Orams) - will simply confirm this.

The Orams/Apostolides matter has been referred to the ECJ for a definitive judgement on the matter of enforcing a member state's court judgement in areas where the member state has effectively no practical recourse and some other related matters to do with service of documents and whether the Orams had due notice and due representation.

In interpreting existing legislation by making the judgement and by way of its definitive opinion the ECJ will be making a new EU-wide law by way of new "case law" in this area. A new case law which national courts will be able to refer to in future.

Not unusual for supreme courts to make new case laws, to fill in gaps in existing laws and give definitive interpretations.

Fair points Bill Cobbett maybe this isn't the place to debate the relative influence of case law and precedent in the English tradition of law on continental law. There is, in fact, a big debate in EU law and courts about the status of 'case law' in the development of law. You'll excuse me if I don't get into a debate about whether constitutional/supreme courts make 'new case law' or not

Fair enough CL mate. I thought I'd use the term "case law" as it's pretty easy to understand and yes I do refer in the main to GB situation.

[bill cobbett]

We will see. After we will win the Orams case then expect the Cypriot courts to start convicting one thief after another. They will order them to demolish the houses they build illegally and pay the rent. If they don't then warrants for their arrest will be made enforceable in all EU. If those people want to continue the illegalities then they should better sell everything they have in any EU country and lock themselves in the pseudo state.

Sotos,
The point remains that cases have to be brought by plaintiffs (complainants) i.e, by wronged parties. The state can't/doesn't automatically do this for people. One can't take a civil action 'by proxy'.

If you think that other EU states and courts are going to be enthusiastically prosecuting, enforcing and processing Cyprus property cases through their legal systems you'll be sorely disappointed.

What will be interesting to see is quite how many GCs with illegally occupied property in the north actually do make claims through the courts ? To estimate the scale of possible cases let's take the oft-quoted figure of c.200,000 GC refugees and, for argument's sake propose that there are five people per family and one property per family. That's 40,000 potential cases. After 35 years do people think we'll have tens of thousands of cases actually pursued ? Or thousands of cases ? Or perhaps just a few hundreds of cases ?

In other cases across Europe and elsewhere, refugees have tended not to (a) return en masse or (b) not laid claims, with the rate declining steeply after a few years of exile and dropping acutely within a generation. This is not an absolute but a tendency. I wonder what will happen in the peculiar circumstances of Cyprus ?

The only figure I can think of are the 1,500 cases before the ECHR.

[CopperLine]

During my recent trip to the UK, I was made aware, that many TC's were taking "sudden" trips to the "trnc", in believing that the Oram's legal ruling by the ECHR was to become EU Law today, March 19th.....................or soon after.! I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law very soon which will turn the north upside-down on it's head, which will throw a "monkey wrench" in Talat's attempt to resolve the GC owned property issue by using compensation as a formula to make the north "Turkish Land". When this legal ruling becomes law, not even Christofias will be able to give Talat what he wants, because each individual GC owner of land in the north will also have a say so what goes on in the property negotiations. It will be as if Talat will be negotiating with Christifias as well as 200,000 GC refugees from then on.! But of course, that will come after the property market of GC land in the north is destroyed by this ruling that is.! At that point, all GC property in the north will become "Radioactive" to others, other than to it's rightful legal owners.!

Good luck, Mr. Talat.!

I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law ....

1. A ruling doesn't become law. A ruling or adjudication is the interpretation of law. ECHR or any other court is not a legislature, it is a judicial chamber interpreting laws. So when ECHR comes to a judgement it is clarifying and therefore interpreting the law.

2. Your reliable source evidently doesn't know the difference between the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe institution) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, which is the court of the European Union). The Oram's case is before the ECJ not the ECHR.

3. Therefore it cannot be the case that a decision on the Oram's was to become EU law as a result of an ECHR judgement. Wrong court, wrong understanding of the relationship between adjudication and law.

4. It was always going to be the case that whatever the terms of a political settlement between Talat and Christofias (or whoever) that individuals could still pursue human rights (or other cases) through national, EU, and international courts. Any result of the Oram's case - whichever way it goes (though more than likely to go 'against' the Orams) - will simply confirm this.

Thanks for your post CopperLine for clearing up few things. Actually, it was me who made the mistake between the ECHR and the ECJ and not the "reliable source", who happens to "own" some stolen GC land by the way. What it all boils down to, is that there are a lot of people out there who are in a "panic mode" regarding the "interpretation of the legal ECJ ruling", which will make many think twice about ever wanting the north to be part of the EU now or in the future, specially all those who live in other EU member states, mainly in the UK. One would then say, "in that case, there will not be a settlement if it means losing out on "their" stolen GC land", but all this is a mute point really, because what Turkey wants is the EU, and when she is ready to become a EU member, all those who may oppose a settlement now, will be pushed aside without a second thought in the future. In the meantime, the south will continue to prosper and the north will just about stay the same, if not go into reverse gear.! Basically, it means bad news for the TC’s all around, because the EU’s “legalities noose” already around their necks, will get just a little tighter.!

How will it change our daily lives?

Viewpoint
As Bill Cobbett noted, even with the Orams losing their claim at ECJ about enforceability of the RoC court judgment (which I think they will), the legal battles will go on for years and years. As I mentioned to Sotos in an earlier post no-one should be under the illusion that there'll be a sudden rush in EU member state courts to sort out GC property claims - it ain't gonna happen.

Although the effect on daily lives of people in the north will not be dramatic, those who have illegally occupied GC property will be, ultimately, held to account (if and only if individual GC complainants register claims against them). In my view there is a 'hierarchy of vulnerability' for those illegally occupying GC property - ironically the ones who have to worry most are ex-patria EU citizens who have bought property from the legions of cheating and frankly fraudulent estate agents. Next would be those TCs who had illegally occupied those properties, especially those TCs with RoC or other EU passports and holding assets in other EU states. Next would be ex-patria non-EU citizens, closely followed by the least vulnerable being Turkish occupiers of illegally acquired properties. This is such an irony that TCs are rendered more vulnerable to remedial action on GC property than Turkish occupiers. [The above assumes that Turkey is does not become an EU member any time soon (earliest 2015 anyway) and that there isn't any political settlement].

[Kikapu]

During my recent trip to the UK, I was made aware, that many TC's were taking "sudden" trips to the "trnc", in believing that the Oram's legal ruling by the ECHR was to become EU Law today, March 19th.....................or soon after.! I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law very soon which will turn the north upside-down on it's head, which will throw a "monkey wrench" in Talat's attempt to resolve the GC owned property issue by using compensation as a formula to make the north "Turkish Land". When this legal ruling becomes law, not even Christofias will be able to give Talat what he wants, because each individual GC owner of land in the north will also have a say so what goes on in the property negotiations. It will be as if Talat will be negotiating with Christifias as well as 200,000 GC refugees from then on.! But of course, that will come after the property market of GC land in the north is destroyed by this ruling that is.! At that point, all GC property in the north will become "Radioactive" to others, other than to it's rightful legal owners.!

Good luck, Mr. Talat.!

I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law ....

1. A ruling doesn't become law. A ruling or adjudication is the interpretation of law. ECHR or any other court is not a legislature, it is a judicial chamber interpreting laws. So when ECHR comes to a judgement it is clarifying and therefore interpreting the law.

2. Your reliable source evidently doesn't know the difference between the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe institution) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, which is the court of the European Union). The Oram's case is before the ECJ not the ECHR.

3. Therefore it cannot be the case that a decision on the Oram's was to become EU law as a result of an ECHR judgement. Wrong court, wrong understanding of the relationship between adjudication and law.

4. It was always going to be the case that whatever the terms of a political settlement between Talat and Christofias (or whoever) that individuals could still pursue human rights (or other cases) through national, EU, and international courts. Any result of the Oram's case - whichever way it goes (though more than likely to go 'against' the Orams) - will simply confirm this.

Thanks for your post CopperLine for clearing up few things. Actually, it was me who made the mistake between the ECHR and the ECJ and not the "reliable source", who happens to "own" some stolen GC land by the way. What it all boils down to, is that there are a lot of people out there who are in a "panic mode" regarding the "interpretation of the legal ECJ ruling", which will make many think twice about ever wanting the north to be part of the EU now or in the future, specially all those who live in other EU member states, mainly in the UK. One would then say, "in that case, there will not be a settlement if it means losing out on "their" stolen GC land", but all this is a mute point really, because what Turkey wants is the EU, and when she is ready to become a EU member, all those who may oppose a settlement now, will be pushed aside without a second thought in the future. In the meantime, the south will continue to prosper and the north will just about stay the same, if not go into reverse gear.! Basically, it means bad news for the TC’s all around, because the EU’s “legalities noose” already around their necks, will get just a little tighter.!

How will it change our daily lives?

Well, it will not get better for you, if that's what you mean, VP.!

One can only run the illegalities gauntlet so long before you need to live by the Rule of Law if you ever want to improve the lives of the TC's and their future.!

So all that drival you have spouted out is hot air.

Really.!

Why don't you read one more time what CopperLine wrote to you and then come back here and say it's all drivel.!

[Viewpoint]

During my recent trip to the UK, I was made aware, that many TC's were taking "sudden" trips to the "trnc", in believing that the Oram's legal ruling by the ECHR was to become EU Law today, March 19th.....................or soon after.! I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law very soon which will turn the north upside-down on it's head, which will throw a "monkey wrench" in Talat's attempt to resolve the GC owned property issue by using compensation as a formula to make the north "Turkish Land". When this legal ruling becomes law, not even Christofias will be able to give Talat what he wants, because each individual GC owner of land in the north will also have a say so what goes on in the property negotiations. It will be as if Talat will be negotiating with Christifias as well as 200,000 GC refugees from then on.! But of course, that will come after the property market of GC land in the north is destroyed by this ruling that is.! At that point, all GC property in the north will become "Radioactive" to others, other than to it's rightful legal owners.!

Good luck, Mr. Talat.!

I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law ....

1. A ruling doesn't become law. A ruling or adjudication is the interpretation of law. ECHR or any other court is not a legislature, it is a judicial chamber interpreting laws. So when ECHR comes to a judgement it is clarifying and therefore interpreting the law.

2. Your reliable source evidently doesn't know the difference between the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe institution) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, which is the court of the European Union). The Oram's case is before the ECJ not the ECHR.

3. Therefore it cannot be the case that a decision on the Oram's was to become EU law as a result of an ECHR judgement. Wrong court, wrong understanding of the relationship between adjudication and law.

4. It was always going to be the case that whatever the terms of a political settlement between Talat and Christofias (or whoever) that individuals could still pursue human rights (or other cases) through national, EU, and international courts. Any result of the Oram's case - whichever way it goes (though more than likely to go 'against' the Orams) - will simply confirm this.

Thanks for your post CopperLine for clearing up few things. Actually, it was me who made the mistake between the ECHR and the ECJ and not the "reliable source", who happens to "own" some stolen GC land by the way. What it all boils down to, is that there are a lot of people out there who are in a "panic mode" regarding the "interpretation of the legal ECJ ruling", which will make many think twice about ever wanting the north to be part of the EU now or in the future, specially all those who live in other EU member states, mainly in the UK. One would then say, "in that case, there will not be a settlement if it means losing out on "their" stolen GC land", but all this is a mute point really, because what Turkey wants is the EU, and when she is ready to become a EU member, all those who may oppose a settlement now, will be pushed aside without a second thought in the future. In the meantime, the south will continue to prosper and the north will just about stay the same, if not go into reverse gear.! Basically, it means bad news for the TC’s all around, because the EU’s “legalities noose” already around their necks, will get just a little tighter.!

How will it change our daily lives?

Viewpoint
As Bill Cobbett noted, even with the Orams losing their claim at ECJ about enforceability of the RoC court judgment (which I think they will), the legal battles will go on for years and years. As I mentioned to Sotos in an earlier post no-one should be under the illusion that there'll be a sudden rush in EU member state courts to sort out GC property claims - it ain't gonna happen.

Although the effect on daily lives of people in the north will not be dramatic, those who have illegally occupied GC property will be, ultimately, held to account (if and only if individual GC complainants register claims against them). In my view there is a 'hierarchy of vulnerability' for those illegally occupying GC property - ironically the ones who have to worry most are ex-patria EU citizens who have bought property from the legions of cheating and frankly fraudulent estate agents. Next would be those TCs who had illegally occupied those properties, especially those TCs with RoC or other EU passports and holding assets in other EU states. Next would be ex-patria non-EU citizens, closely followed by the least vulnerable being Turkish occupiers of illegally acquired properties. This is such an irony that TCs are rendered more vulnerable to remedial action on GC property than Turkish occupiers. [The above assumes that Turkey is does not become an EU member any time soon (earliest 2015 anyway) and that there isn't any political settlement].

What difference will it make on our daily lives?

[Viewpoint]

During my recent trip to the UK, I was made aware, that many TC's were taking "sudden" trips to the "trnc", in believing that the Oram's legal ruling by the ECHR was to become EU Law today, March 19th.....................or soon after.! I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law very soon which will turn the north upside-down on it's head, which will throw a "monkey wrench" in Talat's attempt to resolve the GC owned property issue by using compensation as a formula to make the north "Turkish Land". When this legal ruling becomes law, not even Christofias will be able to give Talat what he wants, because each individual GC owner of land in the north will also have a say so what goes on in the property negotiations. It will be as if Talat will be negotiating with Christifias as well as 200,000 GC refugees from then on.! But of course, that will come after the property market of GC land in the north is destroyed by this ruling that is.! At that point, all GC property in the north will become "Radioactive" to others, other than to it's rightful legal owners.!

Good luck, Mr. Talat.!

I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law ....

1. A ruling doesn't become law. A ruling or adjudication is the interpretation of law. ECHR or any other court is not a legislature, it is a judicial chamber interpreting laws. So when ECHR comes to a judgement it is clarifying and therefore interpreting the law.

2. Your reliable source evidently doesn't know the difference between the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe institution) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, which is the court of the European Union). The Oram's case is before the ECJ not the ECHR.

3. Therefore it cannot be the case that a decision on the Oram's was to become EU law as a result of an ECHR judgement. Wrong court, wrong understanding of the relationship between adjudication and law.

4. It was always going to be the case that whatever the terms of a political settlement between Talat and Christofias (or whoever) that individuals could still pursue human rights (or other cases) through national, EU, and international courts. Any result of the Oram's case - whichever way it goes (though more than likely to go 'against' the Orams) - will simply confirm this.

Thanks for your post CopperLine for clearing up few things. Actually, it was me who made the mistake between the ECHR and the ECJ and not the "reliable source", who happens to "own" some stolen GC land by the way. What it all boils down to, is that there are a lot of people out there who are in a "panic mode" regarding the "interpretation of the legal ECJ ruling", which will make many think twice about ever wanting the north to be part of the EU now or in the future, specially all those who live in other EU member states, mainly in the UK. One would then say, "in that case, there will not be a settlement if it means losing out on "their" stolen GC land", but all this is a mute point really, because what Turkey wants is the EU, and when she is ready to become a EU member, all those who may oppose a settlement now, will be pushed aside without a second thought in the future. In the meantime, the south will continue to prosper and the north will just about stay the same, if not go into reverse gear.! Basically, it means bad news for the TC’s all around, because the EU’s “legalities noose” already around their necks, will get just a little tighter.!

How will it change our daily lives?

Well, it will not get better for you, if that's what you mean, VP.!

One can only run the illegalities gauntlet so long before you need to live by the Rule of Law if you ever want to improve the lives of the TC's and their future.!

So all that drival you have spouted out is hot air.

Really.!

Why don't you read one more time what CopperLine wrote to you and then come back here and say it's all drivel.!

I have asked the same question of CP as you appear to have no real answer just lots of hot air.

[Kikapu]

During my recent trip to the UK, I was made aware, that many TC's were taking "sudden" trips to the "trnc", in believing that the Oram's legal ruling by the ECHR was to become EU Law today, March 19th.....................or soon after.! I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law very soon which will turn the north upside-down on it's head, which will throw a "monkey wrench" in Talat's attempt to resolve the GC owned property issue by using compensation as a formula to make the north "Turkish Land". When this legal ruling becomes law, not even Christofias will be able to give Talat what he wants, because each individual GC owner of land in the north will also have a say so what goes on in the property negotiations. It will be as if Talat will be negotiating with Christifias as well as 200,000 GC refugees from then on.! But of course, that will come after the property market of GC land in the north is destroyed by this ruling that is.! At that point, all GC property in the north will become "Radioactive" to others, other than to it's rightful legal owners.!

Good luck, Mr. Talat.!

I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law ....

1. A ruling doesn't become law. A ruling or adjudication is the interpretation of law. ECHR or any other court is not a legislature, it is a judicial chamber interpreting laws. So when ECHR comes to a judgement it is clarifying and therefore interpreting the law.

2. Your reliable source evidently doesn't know the difference between the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe institution) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, which is the court of the European Union). The Oram's case is before the ECJ not the ECHR.

3. Therefore it cannot be the case that a decision on the Oram's was to become EU law as a result of an ECHR judgement. Wrong court, wrong understanding of the relationship between adjudication and law.

4. It was always going to be the case that whatever the terms of a political settlement between Talat and Christofias (or whoever) that individuals could still pursue human rights (or other cases) through national, EU, and international courts. Any result of the Oram's case - whichever way it goes (though more than likely to go 'against' the Orams) - will simply confirm this.

Thanks for your post CopperLine for clearing up few things. Actually, it was me who made the mistake between the ECHR and the ECJ and not the "reliable source", who happens to "own" some stolen GC land by the way. What it all boils down to, is that there are a lot of people out there who are in a "panic mode" regarding the "interpretation of the legal ECJ ruling", which will make many think twice about ever wanting the north to be part of the EU now or in the future, specially all those who live in other EU member states, mainly in the UK. One would then say, "in that case, there will not be a settlement if it means losing out on "their" stolen GC land", but all this is a mute point really, because what Turkey wants is the EU, and when she is ready to become a EU member, all those who may oppose a settlement now, will be pushed aside without a second thought in the future. In the meantime, the south will continue to prosper and the north will just about stay the same, if not go into reverse gear.! Basically, it means bad news for the TC’s all around, because the EU’s “legalities noose” already around their necks, will get just a little tighter.!

How will it change our daily lives?

Well, it will not get better for you, if that's what you mean, VP.!

One can only run the illegalities gauntlet so long before you need to live by the Rule of Law if you ever want to improve the lives of the TC's and their future.!

So all that drival you have spouted out is hot air.

Really.!

Why don't you read one more time what CopperLine wrote to you and then come back here and say it's all drivel.!

I have asked the same question of CP as you appear to have no real answer just lots of hot air.

CopperLine gave you this answer that I gave you, but in his own detailed way.

Well, it will not get better for you, if that's what you mean, VP.!

One can only run the illegalities gauntlet so long before you need to live by the Rule of Law if you ever want to improve the lives of the TC's and their future.!

I just gave you the "short hand" version above, that's all.!

[Viewpoint]

During my recent trip to the UK, I was made aware, that many TC's were taking "sudden" trips to the "trnc", in believing that the Oram's legal ruling by the ECHR was to become EU Law today, March 19th.....................or soon after.! I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law very soon which will turn the north upside-down on it's head, which will throw a "monkey wrench" in Talat's attempt to resolve the GC owned property issue by using compensation as a formula to make the north "Turkish Land". When this legal ruling becomes law, not even Christofias will be able to give Talat what he wants, because each individual GC owner of land in the north will also have a say so what goes on in the property negotiations. It will be as if Talat will be negotiating with Christifias as well as 200,000 GC refugees from then on.! But of course, that will come after the property market of GC land in the north is destroyed by this ruling that is.! At that point, all GC property in the north will become "Radioactive" to others, other than to it's rightful legal owners.!

Good luck, Mr. Talat.!

I was told by a reliable source, that this ruling is about to become law ....

1. A ruling doesn't become law. A ruling or adjudication is the interpretation of law. ECHR or any other court is not a legislature, it is a judicial chamber interpreting laws. So when ECHR comes to a judgement it is clarifying and therefore interpreting the law.

2. Your reliable source evidently doesn't know the difference between the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe institution) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, which is the court of the European Union). The Oram's case is before the ECJ not the ECHR.

3. Therefore it cannot be the case that a decision on the Oram's was to become EU law as a result of an ECHR judgement. Wrong court, wrong understanding of the relationship between adjudication and law.

4. It was always going to be the case that whatever the terms of a political settlement between Talat and Christofias (or whoever) that individuals could still pursue human rights (or other cases) through national, EU, and international courts. Any result of the Oram's case - whichever way it goes (though more than likely to go 'against' the Orams) - will simply confirm this.

Thanks for your post CopperLine for clearing up few things. Actually, it was me who made the mistake between the ECHR and the ECJ and not the "reliable source", who happens to "own" some stolen GC land by the way. What it all boils down to, is that there are a lot of people out there who are in a "panic mode" regarding the "interpretation of the legal ECJ ruling", which will make many think twice about ever wanting the north to be part of the EU now or in the future, specially all those who live in other EU member states, mainly in the UK. One would then say, "in that case, there will not be a settlement if it means losing out on "their" stolen GC land", but all this is a mute point really, because what Turkey wants is the EU, and when she is ready to become a EU member, all those who may oppose a settlement now, will be pushed aside without a second thought in the future. In the meantime, the south will continue to prosper and the north will just about stay the same, if not go into reverse gear.! Basically, it means bad news for the TC’s all around, because the EU’s “legalities noose” already around their necks, will get just a little tighter.!

How will it change our daily lives?

Well, it will not get better for you, if that's what you mean, VP.!

One can only run the illegalities gauntlet so long before you need to live by the Rule of Law if you ever want to improve the lives of the TC's and their future.!

So all that drival you have spouted out is hot air.

Really.!

Why don't you read one more time what CopperLine wrote to you and then come back here and say it's all drivel.!

I have asked the same question of CP as you appear to have no real answer just lots of hot air.

CopperLine gave you this answer that I gave you, but in his own detailed way.

Well, it will not get better for you, if that's what you mean, VP.!

One can only run the illegalities gauntlet so long before you need to live by the Rule of Law if you ever want to improve the lives of the TC's and their future.!

I just gave you the "short hand" version above, that's all.!

These general sweeping answers are the hot I am referring to and mean nothing, get to the point give us all specifics..how will it change our daily lives?

[CopperLine]

Viewpoint
Following from what I said earlier, the daily lives of some TCs will be changed because they'll be out of house and home or, potentially, other assets claimed. Even if there are amicable settlements one might expect other TCs to give over parts of property or be required to vacate property.

Or, if one makes a less emphatic assumption TCs in contested properties may find it increasingly difficult to raise funds on now-dodgy collateral.

Or if GCs return to their properties in any numbers then the local economy, society, education might change the daily lives of TCs.

One may be reluctant to imagine these possibilities but they're nevertheless imaginable and plausible.

Moreover the Oram's ECJ case is not really about property it is primarily about the enforcement of judgements in other jurisidictions and therefore this has ramifications for TCs (and all other EU citizens) in all aspects of their lives which are based on the illegal appropriation of GC properties.