Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Ataturk spoke of independence, modernisation and democracy.

And here are the TCs, laying siege in an unrecognised territory belonging to others, lagging behind. Dependent on Turkey. As undemocratic as could be.

Have the TC's lived up to Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's legacy, or are they a let down, dependent and helpless? Hopeless Turks, yet traitorous Cypriots.

Certainly Turkey has lived up to Ataturk's ideals:

We shall make the expansion and rise of Turkish culture in every era, the mainstay of the Republic.

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

But what of the TCs?

Which of his aspirations have they lived up to? Where have they let him down?

Oracle, u have already known some 70% of our history on this Island. The essentials of the problem between TC and GCs have nothing directly to do with Ataturk and his principles. As I numerous times emphisized, when the very first signs of conflict verbally unfolded between TCs and GCs the date was 1889. Ataturk was 8 years old yet. Kutchuk and Denktash weren't born yet.

Hellenes struggled for their own cause, Turks struggled for their own cause. Hellene's cause was either Enosis or majority rule; Turk's cause was either political equality of 2 communities or Taksim.

The current situation is the consequence of this struggle between Hellene's and Turks. Had TC demand political equality of 2 communities been accepted by Hellenes; the conflict would have been resolved long ago and Cyprus would have been 1; ruled by 2 communities.

As it is clearly seen only one option was left us to choose and that is Taksim. Our priority has always been the political equality of 2 communities however Hellenes pushed us to Taksim and it happened. How much Hellenes pressurized TCs for Taksim that much TCs got closer to permenant Taksim. Keep pressurizing TCs with the "forces and weapons" of ur national cause and watch how Taksim will become permenant.

Oh so you resort to "Taksim", the heritage of Turkey, hence Ataturk, when all else fails!

I wonder what he would have made of the TCs using him in this way?

I wonder how the Turks financing this venture, feel about this?

[insan]

Ataturk spoke of independence, modernisation and democracy.

And here are the TCs, laying siege in an unrecognised territory belonging to others, lagging behind. Dependent on Turkey. As undemocratic as could be.

Have the TC's lived up to Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's legacy, or are they a let down, dependent and helpless? Hopeless Turks, yet traitorous Cypriots.

Certainly Turkey has lived up to Ataturk's ideals:

We shall make the expansion and rise of Turkish culture in every era, the mainstay of the Republic.

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

But what of the TCs?

Which of his aspirations have they lived up to? Where have they let him down?

Oracle, u have already known some 70% of our history on this Island. The essentials of the problem between TC and GCs have nothing directly to do with Ataturk and his principles. As I numerous times emphisized, when the very first signs of conflict verbally unfolded between TCs and GCs the date was 1889. Ataturk was 8 years old yet. Kutchuk and Denktash weren't born yet.

Hellenes struggled for their own cause, Turks struggled for their own cause. Hellene's cause was either Enosis or majority rule; Turk's cause was either political equality of 2 communities or Taksim.

The current situation is the consequence of this struggle between Hellene's and Turks. Had TC demand political equality of 2 communities been accepted by Hellenes; the conflict would have been resolved long ago and Cyprus would have been 1; ruled by 2 communities.

As it is clearly seen only one option was left us to choose and that is Taksim. Our priority has always been the political equality of 2 communities however Hellenes pushed us to Taksim and it happened. How much Hellenes pressurized TCs for Taksim that much TCs got closer to permenant Taksim. Keep pressurizing TCs with the "forces and weapons" of ur national cause and watch how Taksim will become permenant.

Oh so you resort to "Taksim", the heritage of Turkey, hence Ataturk, when all else fails!

I wonder what he would have made of the TCs using him in this way?

I wonder how the Turks financing this venture, feel about this?

What?

[shahmaran]

Oh so you resort to "Taksim", the heritage of Turkey, hence Ataturk, when all else fails!

I wonder what he would have made of the TCs using him in this way?

I wonder how the Turks financing this venture, feel about this?

Well if Turkey hadn't come in we would be officially called Greece by now, how the hell can you argue such a hypocritical argument with no shame, when you have THAT written on your forehead?

[insan]

Oh so you resort to "Taksim", the heritage of Turkey, hence Ataturk, when all else fails!

I wonder what he would have made of the TCs using him in this way?

I wonder how the Turks financing this venture, feel about this?

Well if Turkey hadn't come in we would be officially called Greece by now, how the hell can you argue such a hypocritical argument with no shame, when you have THAT written on your forehead?

Actually, shahmaran; had Turkey not intervened, there was a high probability of an USSR led eastern block intervention. Just a few months before the coup Makarios set off to buy weapons and ammunition by visiting some eastern block countries. Had some eatern block countries together with USSR attempted to intervene the coupists in Cyprus; most probably we would have faced a World War over Cyprus and I guess none of the Cypriots survived.

Most probably Cyprus would have been partitioned between Eastern Block and Western Block.

[shahmaran]

Certainly Turkey has lived up to Ataturk's ideals:

We shall make the expansion and rise of Turkish culture in every era, the mainstay of the Republic.

I very much doubt Turkey has actually managed to lived up to Atatürks ideas, yet.

"Turkey is now beyond being a stage for religious plays and for religious laws. If there still such players they should find a stage elsewhere."

I like this one

"This nation has never lived without independence. We cannot and shall not live without it. Either independence or death."

...and this one

"Mankind is a single body and each nation a part of that body. We must never say 'What does it matter to me if some part of the world is ailing?' If there is such an illness, we must concern ourselves with it as though we were having that illness."

obviously that one didn't go too well

[shahmaran]

Oh so you resort to "Taksim", the heritage of Turkey, hence Ataturk, when all else fails!

I wonder what he would have made of the TCs using him in this way?

I wonder how the Turks financing this venture, feel about this?

Well if Turkey hadn't come in we would be officially called Greece by now, how the hell can you argue such a hypocritical argument with no shame, when you have THAT written on your forehead?

Actually, shahmaran; had Turkey not intervened, there was a high probability of an USSR led eastern block intervention. Just a few months before the coup Makarios set off to buy weapons and ammunition by visiting some eastern block countries. Had some eatern block countries together with USSR attempted to intervene the coupists in Cyprus; most probably we would have faced a World War over Cyprus and I guess none of the Cypriots survived.

Most probably Cyprus would have been partitioned between Eastern Block and Western Block.

Well thank god for that!

Just when you think things could not possibly get worse

[insan]

Oh so you resort to "Taksim", the heritage of Turkey, hence Ataturk, when all else fails!

I wonder what he would have made of the TCs using him in this way?

I wonder how the Turks financing this venture, feel about this?

Well if Turkey hadn't come in we would be officially called Greece by now, how the hell can you argue such a hypocritical argument with no shame, when you have THAT written on your forehead?

Actually, shahmaran; had Turkey not intervened, there was a high probability of an USSR led eastern block intervention. Just a few months before the coup Makarios set off to buy weapons and ammunition by visiting some eastern block countries. Had some eatern block countries together with USSR attempted to intervene the coupists in Cyprus; most probably we would have faced a World War over Cyprus and I guess none of the Cypriots survived.

Most probably Cyprus would have been partitioned between Eastern Block and Western Block.

Well thank god for that!

Just when you think things could not possibly get worse

Yeah, thx God it didn't happen.

Comrade Zhivkov,

Tonight, at his request, I received comrade E. Papaioanu [Ezekias Papaioannou]. Regarding the issue, he raised (laid out in the memo), I suggest:

1. That we summon the Czechoslovak ambassador and inform him about Papaioannou’s opinion regarding the question of receiving weapons.
2. That we contact the CPSU CC [Central Committee of Communist Party of the Soviet Union] on Wednesday, in order to find out their opinion on the matter.
3. After that, instructions should be given to the press to carefully unmask the attempts at a coup d’état in Cyprus. If the Soviet comrades propose other measures (military, diplomatic), we will inform you in a timely manner.
19.III.1974
[19 March 1974]
Signature:
[K. Tellalov]

Makarios has promised to travel to Romania, but is asking for weapons from Czechoslovakia. Katsuridis has tried to explain to the Czechoslovak comrade that, most likely, Makarios will visit not only Romania, but also Czechoslovakia, and Hungary, and other socialist countries, and that it should not be required of him that he adhere to an entirely communist line. But the Czechoslovak comrades asked for a written request from Makarios, and [demanded] that the weaponry be formally sent.

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?t ... Cold%20War

[repulsewarrior]

I think Ataturk would be ashamed of the Kemalist who let their Turkishness get ahead of their identity as Turks.

Ataturk, if he lived on this island today, would not let either the "Greeks" or the "Turks" of Cyprus forget their identity as Cypriots either.

[insan]

In 1969, Rauf Denktash, then leader of the Turkish Cypriot community, proposed to Archbishop Makarios, then the President of Cyprus, that the Turkish Cypriots who had left their homes in 1963 be allowed to return to their original villages. The United Nations (UN) began devising phased-in arrangements to carry out the return to homes, but the proposal was allowed to wither. A more striking proposal in 1972 would have the Turkish Cypriots accept the thirteen amendments proposed by President Makarios in 1963 in exchange for legal guarantees of considerable Turkish Cypriot autonomy within a quasi-unitary Cypriot nation-state. The proposal was rejected, and war occurred two years later.

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?f ... _id=167782

[Get Real!]

Actually, shahmaran; had Turkey not intervened, there was a high probability of an USSR led eastern block intervention. Just a few months before the coup Makarios set off to buy weapons and ammunition by visiting some eastern block countries. Had some eatern block countries together with USSR attempted to intervene the coupists in Cyprus; most probably we would have faced a World War over Cyprus and I guess none of the Cypriots survived.

Most probably Cyprus would have been partitioned between Eastern Block and Western Block.

That's the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard...

The USSR did not invade anyone to spread communism, but it was decided between them and the US just after WWII that Korea, Vietnam, Europe, and some other places, would be carved up since their ideologies did not agree. There was never an issue of the USSR invading Cyprus.

As for the weapons purchased, they were from Czechoslovakia alone.