Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

I think YFred is speaking in relative terms. Turkish Cypriots in my experience are remarkably non-religious.

Thank you Tim. GR take note.

If and when, Turkish Cypriots officially sign away Islam and Mosques then Tim's casual "remarkably non-religious" description will attain some weight.

Not that I’m sure why you are trying to convince me that TCs are “non-religious” or care!

Now then, Are you actually doubting Tim.

I'll tell you what, I will sign it in blood like the maffia style, you know what I mean.

Does that satisfy your thirst for blood?

What makes you think I care what other people’s religion is?

Religion was never an issue on Cyprus anyway... it is people’s dubious minds and attitudes that concern me.

So what was the effect on the GC voters when you Archbishop declared that anyone who votes yes will go to hell?

I'll be glad to take you on a point by point guide through the Annan plan so that you can understand why the GC's said no. Just ask.

I have no time DT, just answer the question above. Are you saying it had no effect? Only because Bafitis agreed with him. Now How many Bafitises are there in Cyprus?
Now you have to answere two questions.

[DT.]

I think YFred is speaking in relative terms. Turkish Cypriots in my experience are remarkably non-religious.

Thank you Tim. GR take note.

If and when, Turkish Cypriots officially sign away Islam and Mosques then Tim's casual "remarkably non-religious" description will attain some weight.

Not that I’m sure why you are trying to convince me that TCs are “non-religious” or care!

Now then, Are you actually doubting Tim.

I'll tell you what, I will sign it in blood like the maffia style, you know what I mean.

Does that satisfy your thirst for blood?

What makes you think I care what other people’s religion is?

Religion was never an issue on Cyprus anyway... it is people’s dubious minds and attitudes that concern me.

So what was the effect on the GC voters when you Archbishop declared that anyone who votes yes will go to hell?

I'll be glad to take you on a point by point guide through the Annan plan so that you can understand why the GC's said no. Just ask.

I have no time DT, just answer the question above. Are you saying it had no effect? Only because Bafitis agreed with him. Now How many Bafitises are there in Cyprus?
Now you have to answere two questions.

Personally I don't ever recall such a statement coming out from the Archbishop which leads me to believe that neither did many others. You also seem to have no idea on how little credibility this Archbishop has within Cyprus. Where did you hear this?

[Get Real!]

I'll be glad to take you on a point by point guide through the Annan plan so that you can understand why the GC's said no. Just ask.

Oh please! Do we really have to???

[YFred]

I think YFred is speaking in relative terms. Turkish Cypriots in my experience are remarkably non-religious.

Thank you Tim. GR take note.

If and when, Turkish Cypriots officially sign away Islam and Mosques then Tim's casual "remarkably non-religious" description will attain some weight.

Not that I’m sure why you are trying to convince me that TCs are “non-religious” or care!

Now then, Are you actually doubting Tim.

I'll tell you what, I will sign it in blood like the maffia style, you know what I mean.

Does that satisfy your thirst for blood?

What makes you think I care what other people’s religion is?

Religion was never an issue on Cyprus anyway... it is people’s dubious minds and attitudes that concern me.

So what was the effect on the GC voters when you Archbishop declared that anyone who votes yes will go to hell?

I'll be glad to take you on a point by point guide through the Annan plan so that you can understand why the GC's said no. Just ask.

I have no time DT, just answer the question above. Are you saying it had no effect? Only because Bafitis agreed with him. Now How many Bafitises are there in Cyprus?
Now you have to answere two questions.

Personally I don't ever recall such a statement coming out from the Archbishop which leads me to believe that neither did many others. You also seem to have no idea on how little credibility this Archbishop has within Cyprus. Where did you hear this?

I was using the only credible source from cyprus, Cyprus Mail.

[Tim Drayton]

Re: the unreligious nature of Turkish Cypriots.

There is a theory that shortly after the Ottoman conquest of Cyprus the Ottoman rulers banished a large number of Alevis, considered to be heretics by mainstream Sunni Islam, to the island. This, it is argued, explains why Turkish Cypriots are not very religious. I have known a lot of Alevi people in Turkey, and would agree that their way of thinking is remarkably similar to that of Turkish Cypriots.

The following is said to be a decree issued by the Ottoman Sultan on 9 May 1577 ordering the expulsion to Cyprus of all people with unorthodox religious views (taken to be a reference to Alevi people) from the "Province of the Greeks", referring to the Eastern Black Sea region that was mainly populated by Pontian Greeks at the time.



You can find the text of this decree transliterated into the Roman script here.

http://www.habercem.com/haberdetay.asp? ... tegoryid=4

I am grateful to one of our regular posters here for first suggesting this idea to me when I met him last year. It struck a chord with me at the time. However, I have one problem with this theory. In Anatoila the Alevis have suffered centuries of oppression but have always doggedly clung on to their beliefs and have managed to keep their faith alive. On the other hand, Turkish Cypriots, however nominally, profess to be mainstream Sunni Moslems. Surely if it were true that most Turkish Cypriots do trace their origins back to Alevis, they would also have kept their faith going on the island.

[YFred]

Re: the unreligious nature of Turkish Cypriots.

There is a theory that shortly after the Ottoman conquest of Cyprus the Ottoman rulers banished a large number of Alevis, considered to be heretics by mainstream Sunni Islam, to the island. This, it is argued, explains why Turkish Cypriots are not very religious. I have known a lot of Alevi people in Turkey, and would agree that their way of thinking is remarkably similar to that of Turkish Cypriots.

The following is said to be a decree issued by the Ottoman Sultan on 9 May 1577 ordering the expulsion to Cyprus of all people with unorthodox religious views (taken to be a reference to Alevi people) from the "Province of the Greeks", referring to the Eastern Black Sea region that was mainly populated by Pontian Greeks at the time.



You can find the text of this decree transliterated into the Roman script here.

http://www.habercem.com/haberdetay.asp? ... tegoryid=4

I am grateful to one of our regular posters here for first suggesting this idea to me when I met him last year. It struck a chord with me at the time. However, I have one problem with this theory. In Anatoila the Alevis have suffered centuries of oppression but have always doggedly clung on to their beliefs and have managed to keep their faith alive. On the other hand, Turkish Cypriots, however nominally, profess to be mainstream Sunni Moslems. Surely if it were true that most Turkish Cypriots do trace their origins back to Alevis, they would also have kept their faith going on the island.

Tim, you are talking to the religously un-initated here. We may have similarities but I don't think we have any connections. The Biological life is full of living things being evolved to look similar without being the same family.

[Oracle]

The TCs discarded their religion and replaced it with the worship of Mammon!

[turkkan]

I have known a lot of Alevi people in Turkey, and would agree that their way of thinking is remarkably similar to that of Turkish Cypriots.

I assume by similar you mean that they dont practise islam as a religious sunni would. TC's are sunni muslims but most have no clue about the basics of their religion and are happy that way even though a lot would say they beleived in god if you asked them. Alevis being alevis are obviously not sunni and their religous obligations are very different and thus seem more in tune with the TC's general lifestyle. They do however have a very different culture to ours, their food, the way they pray and many do pray, their weddings, they dont observe the same religious holidays and most in london are from adana or kahramanmaras. They tend not to get married outside their sect which is also not true for TC's. They also tend not to be very nationalistic. Their a very interesting group and it would be quite wrong to portray them as culturally close to TC's as they have a very distinct culture they derive from their religion. This is a quick excerpt from wiki.

'The Alevi (Turkish: Aleviler; Zazaki and Kurdish: Elewî) are a religious, sub-ethnic and cultural community in Turkey, numbering in the tens of millions. Alevism is generally considered an Islamic religion. However, Alevi worship takes place in assembly houses (cemevi) rather than mosques. The ceremony, âyîn-i cem or simply cem, features music and dance (semah) which symbolize the main planets around the Sun (by man and woman turning in circles) and the putting off of one’s self and uniting with God. In Alevism, men and women are regarded as equals, and pray side by side. Unlike most other Muslim practices, Alevi rituals are conducted mostly in Turkish, and some in Kurdish.

Key Alevi characteristics include:

* Love and respect for all people (“The important thing is not religion, but being a human being”)
* Tolerance towards other religions and ethnic groups (“If you hurt another person, the ritual prayers you have done are counted as worthless”)
* Respect for working people ("The greatest act of worship is to work”)

Some consider Alevism a sect of Twelver Shi‘a Islam, since Alevis accept Twelver Shi‘i beliefs about Ali and the Twelve Imams. Some Alevis; however, are uncomfortable describing themselves as Shi‘i, since there are major differences in philosophy, customs, and rituals from the prevailing form of Shi‘ism in modern Iran.

Alevism is also closely related to the Bektashi Sufi lineage, in the sense that both venerate Hajji Bektash Wali (Turkish: Hacibektaş Veli), a saint of the 13th century. Many Alevis refer to an "Alevi-Bektashi" tradition, but this identity is not universally accepted, nor is the combined name used by non-Turkish Bektashis (e.g., in the Balkans).'

[insan]

Re: the unreligious nature of Turkish Cypriots.

There is a theory that shortly after the Ottoman conquest of Cyprus the Ottoman rulers banished a large number of Alevis, considered to be heretics by mainstream Sunni Islam, to the island. This, it is argued, explains why Turkish Cypriots are not very religious. I have known a lot of Alevi people in Turkey, and would agree that their way of thinking is remarkably similar to that of Turkish Cypriots.

The following is said to be a decree issued by the Ottoman Sultan on 9 May 1577 ordering the expulsion to Cyprus of all people with unorthodox religious views (taken to be a reference to Alevi people) from the "Province of the Greeks", referring to the Eastern Black Sea region that was mainly populated by Pontian Greeks at the time.



You can find the text of this decree transliterated into the Roman script here.

http://www.habercem.com/haberdetay.asp? ... tegoryid=4

I am grateful to one of our regular posters here for first suggesting this idea to me when I met him last year. It struck a chord with me at the time. However, I have one problem with this theory. In Anatoila the Alevis have suffered centuries of oppression but have always doggedly clung on to their beliefs and have managed to keep their faith alive. On the other hand, Turkish Cypriots, however nominally, profess to be mainstream Sunni Moslems. Surely if it were true that most Turkish Cypriots do trace their origins back to Alevis, they would also have kept their faith going on the island.

Tim, you are talking to the religously un-initated here. We may have similarities but I don't think we have any connections. The Biological life is full of living things being evolved to look similar without being the same family.

Tim, TCs belonged to Hanefi branch of Sunni. Mostly the Central Asia origin Turks followed this branch of Islam. According to my observations; in TC community, usually the village origin adult females fulfilled some of their basic religous obligations; such as fasting, pray at home...

[Oracle]

Re: the unreligious nature of Turkish Cypriots.

There is a theory that shortly after the Ottoman conquest of Cyprus the Ottoman rulers banished a large number of Alevis, considered to be heretics by mainstream Sunni Islam, to the island. This, it is argued, explains why Turkish Cypriots are not very religious. I have known a lot of Alevi people in Turkey, and would agree that their way of thinking is remarkably similar to that of Turkish Cypriots.

The following is said to be a decree issued by the Ottoman Sultan on 9 May 1577 ordering the expulsion to Cyprus of all people with unorthodox religious views (taken to be a reference to Alevi people) from the "Province of the Greeks", referring to the Eastern Black Sea region that was mainly populated by Pontian Greeks at the time.



You can find the text of this decree transliterated into the Roman script here.

http://www.habercem.com/haberdetay.asp? ... tegoryid=4

I am grateful to one of our regular posters here for first suggesting this idea to me when I met him last year. It struck a chord with me at the time. However, I have one problem with this theory. In Anatoila the Alevis have suffered centuries of oppression but have always doggedly clung on to their beliefs and have managed to keep their faith alive. On the other hand, Turkish Cypriots, however nominally, profess to be mainstream Sunni Moslems. Surely if it were true that most Turkish Cypriots do trace their origins back to Alevis, they would also have kept their faith going on the island.

Tim, you are talking to the religously un-initated here. We may have similarities but I don't think we have any connections. The Biological life is full of living things being evolved to look similar without being the same family.

When will you shut up with your stupidities ....