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Treaty of Guarantee Fact Sheet

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:39 pm

Paphitis wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote::lol: ok, lets try again.

with the 2 articles of the treaty I gave you....is Turkey in breach of the treaty at this moment in time or not?

No DT,
If this treaty is no longer valid, why don't the RoC test it. Attack the TCs to see if Turkey responds. You will be safe after all the guarantee is no longer there.

Stop talking bullshit and please concentrate on finding a solution that will be acceptable to both sides.


There is no Treaty to enforce YFred. Its been breached, get it in your head.

If we attack the TC's then Turkey will attack because its currently occupying that piece of land which is foreign to Turkey.


I told you these TCs require a refresher.

They are thick as... :roll:


Sshh Paphiti...he's reading it. Can you hear the penny drop?
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Postby DT. » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:40 pm

YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote::lol: ok, lets try again.

with the 2 articles of the treaty I gave you....is Turkey in breach of the treaty at this moment in time or not?

No DT,
If this treaty is no longer valid, why don't the RoC test it. Attack the TCs to see if Turkey responds. You will be safe after all the guarantee is no longer there.

Stop talking bullshit and please concentrate on finding a solution that will be acceptable to both sides.


There is no Treaty to enforce YFred. Its been breached, get it in your head.

If we attack the TC's then Turkey will attack because its currently occupying that piece of land which is foreign to Turkey.

You are not making sense DT. If there is no treaty or gurantee, why is MRx trying to remove it?


He's not trying to remove it, he's thrying to make sure its not included in the new agreement.

DT, one of us is confused. Is the Treatyof Gurantee one of the chapters?


here you are mate

http://kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/treaty.html#B

I get it now. This must be the androsh that TPapa introduced in one of the 80 extra chapters.
How do you propse to break the treaty without the other members being at the negotiation table.

As you say if it is on the table, it will be a very interesting time when it comes up. I look forward to it.


:roll: oh boy!

YFred...this is the Treaty of Gaurantee attached as an appenidx to the 1960 Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus. The same Treaty Turkey uses as an excuse for invading.

Please tell me you've heard of this before!
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Postby YFred » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:42 pm

DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote::lol: ok, lets try again.

with the 2 articles of the treaty I gave you....is Turkey in breach of the treaty at this moment in time or not?

No DT,
If this treaty is no longer valid, why don't the RoC test it. Attack the TCs to see if Turkey responds. You will be safe after all the guarantee is no longer there.

Stop talking bullshit and please concentrate on finding a solution that will be acceptable to both sides.


There is no Treaty to enforce YFred. Its been breached, get it in your head.

If we attack the TC's then Turkey will attack because its currently occupying that piece of land which is foreign to Turkey.

You are not making sense DT. If there is no treaty or gurantee, why is MRx trying to remove it?


He's not trying to remove it, he's thrying to make sure its not included in the new agreement.

DT, one of us is confused. Is the Treatyof Gurantee one of the chapters?


here you are mate

http://kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/treaty.html#B

I get it now. This must be the androsh that TPapa introduced in one of the 80 extra chapters.
How do you propse to break the treaty without the other members being at the negotiation table.

As you say if it is on the table, it will be a very interesting time when it comes up. I look forward to it.


:roll: oh boy!

YFred...this is the Treaty of Gaurantee attached as an appenidx to the 1960 Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus. The same Treaty Turkey uses as an excuse for invading.

Please tell me you've heard of this before!

I don't understand, does it mean that the constitution of RoC is equally invalid as we speak?
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Postby DT. » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:44 pm

YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote::lol: ok, lets try again.

with the 2 articles of the treaty I gave you....is Turkey in breach of the treaty at this moment in time or not?

No DT,
If this treaty is no longer valid, why don't the RoC test it. Attack the TCs to see if Turkey responds. You will be safe after all the guarantee is no longer there.

Stop talking bullshit and please concentrate on finding a solution that will be acceptable to both sides.


There is no Treaty to enforce YFred. Its been breached, get it in your head.

If we attack the TC's then Turkey will attack because its currently occupying that piece of land which is foreign to Turkey.

You are not making sense DT. If there is no treaty or gurantee, why is MRx trying to remove it?


He's not trying to remove it, he's thrying to make sure its not included in the new agreement.

DT, one of us is confused. Is the Treatyof Gurantee one of the chapters?


here you are mate

http://kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/treaty.html#B

I get it now. This must be the androsh that TPapa introduced in one of the 80 extra chapters.
How do you propse to break the treaty without the other members being at the negotiation table.

As you say if it is on the table, it will be a very interesting time when it comes up. I look forward to it.


:roll: oh boy!

YFred...this is the Treaty of Gaurantee attached as an appenidx to the 1960 Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus. The same Treaty Turkey uses as an excuse for invading.

Please tell me you've heard of this before!

I don't understand, does it mean that the constitution of RoC is equally invalid as we speak?


No my friend the Treaty of Gaurantee as a separate appendix to the constitution has been breached by Turkey. Therefore the Republic is now skinny dipping in gaurantee free waters.
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Postby YFred » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:45 pm

DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote:
YFred wrote:
DT. wrote::lol: ok, lets try again.

with the 2 articles of the treaty I gave you....is Turkey in breach of the treaty at this moment in time or not?

No DT,
If this treaty is no longer valid, why don't the RoC test it. Attack the TCs to see if Turkey responds. You will be safe after all the guarantee is no longer there.

Stop talking bullshit and please concentrate on finding a solution that will be acceptable to both sides.


There is no Treaty to enforce YFred. Its been breached, get it in your head.

If we attack the TC's then Turkey will attack because its currently occupying that piece of land which is foreign to Turkey.

You are not making sense DT. If there is no treaty or gurantee, why is MRx trying to remove it?


He's not trying to remove it, he's thrying to make sure its not included in the new agreement.

DT, one of us is confused. Is the Treatyof Gurantee one of the chapters?


here you are mate

http://kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/treaty.html#B

I get it now. This must be the androsh that TPapa introduced in one of the 80 extra chapters.
How do you propse to break the treaty without the other members being at the negotiation table.

As you say if it is on the table, it will be a very interesting time when it comes up. I look forward to it.


:roll: oh boy!

YFred...this is the Treaty of Gaurantee attached as an appenidx to the 1960 Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus. The same Treaty Turkey uses as an excuse for invading.

Please tell me you've heard of this before!

I don't understand, does it mean that the constitution of RoC is equally invalid as we speak?


No my friend the Treaty of Gaurantee as a separate appendix to the constitution has been breached by Turkey. Therefore the Republic is now skinny dipping in gaurantee free waters.

Watch out for anything sharp like a turkish shark, if you are skinny dipping my good Cypriot friend.
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Postby YFred » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:48 pm

DT. wrote::lol: ok, lets try again.

with the 2 articles of the treaty I gave you....is Turkey in breach of the treaty at this moment in time or not?

And by the way the ex-president has stated on numerous occassions that the treaty of gaurantee died when Turkey breached it.

Well he would say that, wouldn't he?
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Postby DT. » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:49 pm

to confuse you even further Turkey had no right for millitary intervention under the Treaty. The permanent representative of Cyprus to the UN put it very well when he stated.

The Turkish Forces’ presence on the island does not stem from the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee and that of the Treaty of Alliance. Initially, a contingent of 650 Turkish troops was stationed in Cyprus under the latter Treaty. In April 1964, Turkey was formally notified of her major breach of that Treaty. As to the Treaty of Guarantee, the Republic of Turkey has claimed to rely on its article IV in order to justify its 1974 invasion and continuing occupation of 36.49 per cent of the island’s territory. Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee does not, however, grant any right of armed military intervention to the guaranteeing powers. If we were to assume that by the term “take action” the guarantors had in mind military action, then the treaty they concluded is contrary to Article 2, paragraph 4, of the Charter of the United Nations. Further, Article 103 of the Charter provides that in the event of a conflict between the obligations of the Members of the United Nations under the present Charter and their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligation under the present Charter shall prevail. Hence the guarantors, even if we assume that under the Treaty of Guarantee they had in mind military action, had a duty to refrain from such action since military action is prohibited by Article 2, paragraph 4, of the Charter. The Treaty of Guarantee, in accordance with the second paragraph of its article V, was deposited with the Secretariat of the United Nations by virtue of Article 102 of the Charter and is governed by its provisions. Even if we assume that the Treaty constitutes a regional arrangement within the meaning of Chapter VIII of the Charter, it is impossible for the provisions of Article 53 of the Charter to be overlooked, in accordance with which no enforcement measures can be taken without the authorization of the Security Council. And even if Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee grants to one of the guaranteeing Powers the right of taking military measures, in the present case the prerequisites of its application did not exist. By invading Cyprus on 20 July 1974 and sending further forces thereafter, the Republic of Turkey is also in breach of the Treaty of Guarantee. It cannot lawfully claim to rely on those Treaties for the presence of Turkish Forces in Cyprus. I draw attention, in this respect, to the Security Council’s call in its resolution 367 (1975), paragraph 4, for the urgent and effective implementation of all parts and provisions of General Assembly resolution 3212 (XXIX), in paragraph 2 of which the Assembly urged the speedy withdrawal of all foreign armed forces and foreign military presence and personnel from the Republic of Cyprus and the cessation of all foreign interference in its affairs.
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Postby DT. » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:53 pm

YFred wrote:
DT. wrote::lol: ok, lets try again.

with the 2 articles of the treaty I gave you....is Turkey in breach of the treaty at this moment in time or not?

And by the way the ex-president has stated on numerous occassions that the treaty of gaurantee died when Turkey breached it.

Well he would say that, wouldn't he?


you just asked why the President never declared the treaty dead and I answered.

I don't mean to be rude or anything but...are we a little slow today?
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Re: Treaty of Guarantee Fact Sheet

Postby Get Real! » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:53 pm

Paphitis wrote:Treaty of Guarantee Fact Sheet

Again? :lol:
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Postby YFred » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:54 pm

DT. wrote:to confuse you even further Turkey had no right for millitary intervention under the Treaty. The permanent representative of Cyprus to the UN put it very well when he stated.

The Turkish Forces’ presence on the island does not stem from the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee and that of the Treaty of Alliance. Initially, a contingent of 650 Turkish troops was stationed in Cyprus under the latter Treaty. In April 1964, Turkey was formally notified of her major breach of that Treaty. As to the Treaty of Guarantee, the Republic of Turkey has claimed to rely on its article IV in order to justify its 1974 invasion and continuing occupation of 36.49 per cent of the island’s territory. Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee does not, however, grant any right of armed military intervention to the guaranteeing powers. If we were to assume that by the term “take action” the guarantors had in mind military action, then the treaty they concluded is contrary to Article 2, paragraph 4, of the Charter of the United Nations. Further, Article 103 of the Charter provides that in the event of a conflict between the obligations of the Members of the United Nations under the present Charter and their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligation under the present Charter shall prevail. Hence the guarantors, even if we assume that under the Treaty of Guarantee they had in mind military action, had a duty to refrain from such action since military action is prohibited by Article 2, paragraph 4, of the Charter. The Treaty of Guarantee, in accordance with the second paragraph of its article V, was deposited with the Secretariat of the United Nations by virtue of Article 102 of the Charter and is governed by its provisions. Even if we assume that the Treaty constitutes a regional arrangement within the meaning of Chapter VIII of the Charter, it is impossible for the provisions of Article 53 of the Charter to be overlooked, in accordance with which no enforcement measures can be taken without the authorization of the Security Council. And even if Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee grants to one of the guaranteeing Powers the right of taking military measures, in the present case the prerequisites of its application did not exist. By invading Cyprus on 20 July 1974 and sending further forces thereafter, the Republic of Turkey is also in breach of the Treaty of Guarantee. It cannot lawfully claim to rely on those Treaties for the presence of Turkish Forces in Cyprus. I draw attention, in this respect, to the Security Council’s call in its resolution 367 (1975), paragraph 4, for the urgent and effective implementation of all parts and provisions of General Assembly resolution 3212 (XXIX), in paragraph 2 of which the Assembly urged the speedy withdrawal of all foreign armed forces and foreign military presence and personnel from the Republic of Cyprus and the cessation of all foreign interference in its affairs.

Oh well that does it. The Turks must be bloody good at this sort of thing as they got away with it for so long.

However there is a little clause hidden in there somewhere that says that Turkey has the right to protect the TCs, or was that in our imagenation.

But more seriously, I really think that people are barking up the wrong tree. Cyprus problem has been and is a bit of a pain for turkey and can't wait to get rid of it without losing face at home.

So stop being suspiceous and concentrate on the future please.
Last edited by YFred on Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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