Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

In Cyprus consociationalism didn't work just because 1 of the players didn't appreciate the mutual benefits of such cooperation. Frankly speaking; I believe that the Enosis aspiration and Turkophobia/historical hatred of GCs+Hellenes caused 1 of the players namely Hellenes not to appreciate the mutual benefits of such cooperation. However I don't blame Hellenes having such a Turcophobia or hatred originating from our common historical background. I blame those Hellenes who exagerrated, distorted the facts to spread Turcophobia and hatred among ordinary Hellenes in order to make Cyprus a Hellen island and score 1 more goal into goal post of "barbarian" Turks.

http://www.coronetbooks.com/books/c/chan4924.htm

Well we all feel strongly about things mate or else we wouldn't be here.

Insan you xerocephalic staphilophage, this last very one sided paragraph of yours, which doesn't bear any resemblance to any reality that I'm aware of. When did all this claimed nbollxxcks of yours happen?

Sorry but end of discussion for me. I was expecting that u would come some counter-arguments. I fed up all the galimatias, staphylinoideas, running around a vicious circle, blah blah blah.

Let me run around this vicious circle one more time. This is the last time. RoC was founded on a consociational government structure. The only reason it didn't work was because it was completely out of the expectations of Hellenes(refers all Greek descendants). Hellenes of Cyprus had struggled for self determination right/Enosis for "Cypriots"(GCs they meant). On the other hand TCs had struggled for political equality/Taksim. The 60s treaties in neither way was satisfactory for Hellenes whereas it was satisfactory for Turks(refers all Turk descendents).

Turks were aware of dissatisfaction of Hellenes. They were decerning that Hellenes was preparing towards their next step for the ultimate goal; Enosis. Turks also began preparing for Taksim.

In my opinion, the main motive behind the dissatisfaction of Hellenes rests with the mentality of Turcophobia/Historical background originated hatred. I say, I don't blame Hellenes because of their rightous and natural attitude towards Turks but 60s agreements was a great opportunity for reconciliation of Turks and Hellenes for a new fresh begining. However they prefered to pursue the pre-60 mentality just not to share the political power(consociationally) with Turks. Because those Turks looted their churches, oppressed them for 300 hundred years, discriminated them in Sheria courts, sided with Brits and prevent them from their self-determination right etc etc. There was nothing wrong with 60s constitution even the 30/70 share of all governmental posts was based on the fact that in the begining of the British rule TCs were constituting 1/3 of total population.

These r all happened under the then circumstances in correlation with the then mentality of rulers and their governance. Was there something called democracy, 300 years ago?

Now u tell us let's forgive each other. Ok. Then? "We" won't forget some events. Ok. Then? There's just one thing that TCs should not forget and that is they r not a politically equal community but a minority of Cyprus. No! U further say us that forget abt the "anti-democratic" struggle u have given to be a politically equal community and the product of ur "pseudo" struggle, "pseudo" state TRNC; let's all go our homes in our unitary state where democracy and human rights of all citizens of Cyprus restored, Turkish army kicked out. No.

Is there something I forgot to mention? Bill C., essentially; there's no difference between ur mentality and mentality of 1800s, 1900s Hellene mentality. I still won't blame u and ur alikes that bear the same mentality. Feel free to pursue the same mentality and maintain ur struggle on the same basis. I am sure we too have the right to pursue our struggle based on our own beliefs.

Surely, u believe that u r rightful and that's why whole "world" recognize "RoC" as the legitimate government but u r in a bloomer. Whole world had to recognize "RoC" just because of the interests of wetern alliance over Balkans.

[Paphitis]

I still strongly believe that GCs have nothing to loose in a united Cyprus which 2 communities have political equality on legislative and judicial bodies.

How can a community comprising only 18% of the population be political equal to the remaining 80%?

And why don't the Armenian, Maronite and Latin communities comprising 2% also deserve political equality? Are the TCs so special, that they wish to be democratically the most powerful citizens of Cyprus, to the detriment of the rest?

[insan]

I still strongly believe that GCs have nothing to loose in a united Cyprus which 2 communities have political equality on legislative and judicial bodies.

How can a community comprising only 18% of the population be political equal to the remaining 80%?

And why don't the Armenian, Maronite and Latin communities comprising 2% also deserve political equality? Are the TCs so special, that they wish to be democratically the most powerful citizens of Cyprus, to the detriment of the rest?

Paphitis, in the begining of the British rule we were 1/3 of the total population and Cyprus was still an Ottoman territory. During those years, we the TCs asked form Brits for the establishment of a legislative assemebly on the basis of equality. Otherwise we would have always outvoted by GCs. Can u tell me what was wrong with it? It has always obviously seen that there has been 2 main communities in Cyprus. Now why u intentionaly compare us with the minorities of Cyprus? Count me 5 probable to occure detrimental cases in a united Cyprus that 2 main communities of Cyprus have political equality. If u can count me 5 cases I will believe u that political equality of TC community would be detrimental for the rest.

[Paphitis]

Insan Wrote:

Can u tell me what was wrong with it?

A community of 18% is not proportionally equal to 82%.

The thing wrong with what you say is that the 82% do not have their fair share as far as democratic representation is concerned. This can only lead to major resentment as once again the TCs are advocating an Apartheid structure to the detriment of the majority.

If you want safeguards, then this can easily be provided by an Upper House Legislative Council or Senate. You may also end up with a TC administered area if there is a solution, but Federally citizens must be equal on an individual basis. The fact that a Bi-zonal, Bicommunal Solution is being discussed, is a major compromise made by Makarios himself, but you want more than this in order to turn Cyprus into a Turkish State.

The RoC Government's demonisation of the Cypriot Ethnos is cataclysmic!

[insan]

Insan Wrote:

Can u tell me what was wrong with it?

A community of 18% is not proportionally equal to 82%.

The thing wrong with what you say is that the 82% do not have their fair share as far as democratic representation is concerned. This can only lead to major resentment as once again the TCs are advocating an Apartheid structure to the detriment of the majority.

If you want safeguards, then this can easily be provided by an Upper House Legislative Council or Senate. You may also end up with a TC administered area if there is a solution, but Federally citizens must be equal on an individual basis. The fact that a Bi-zonal, Bicommunal Solution is being discussed, is a major compromise made by Makarios himself, but you want more than this in order to turn Cyprus into a Turkish State.

The RoC Government's demonisation of the Cypriot Ethnos is cataclysmic!

Paphitis sorry but ur argument sounds a lot galimatias to me. Now... You claim when I have half of the legislative and judicial power i would become able to turn Cyprus into a Turkish state. How?

You have the other half of the legislative and judicial power but u claim u would not be able to turn Cyprus into a Hellene state or stop TCs turning Cyprus into a Turkish state? Why?

[Piratis]

Paphitis, in the begining of the British rule we were 1/3 of the total population and Cyprus was still an Ottoman territory.

And before the Ottoman rule you were 0%.

During those years, we the TCs asked form Brits for the establishment of a legislative assemebly on the basis of equality. Otherwise we would have always outvoted by GCs.

While before were happy to forcibly rule Cyprus by yourselves, without giving to GCs even a single vote.

Can u tell me what was wrong with it?

It is undemocratic and violates our rights.

It has always obviously seen that there has been 2 main communities in Cyprus.

What always? The first time that such thing as a "TC community" was mentioned was much less than 100 years ago.

Now why u intentionaly compare us with the minorities of Cyprus?

Because you are a minority.

Count me 5 probable to occure detrimental cases in a united Cyprus that 2 main communities of Cyprus have political equality. If u can count me 5 cases I will believe u that political equality of TC community would be detrimental for the rest.

There are not just 5 but tons of them. The reasons are:
1) The TCs have shown that they are greedy and do not accept to have their fair share. Today they demand 30% of land and 50% of power. Nothing will stop them to demand similar disproportionally large shares from everything, e.g. EU funds, profits from any oil we might find etc.

2) The TCs will always be indebted to Turkey because it will be with the brute force applied by Turkey that they would have gained all these unfair and disproportionally large gains on our expense. They will know that if they lose the support of Turkey they will risk to lose the unfair gains as well. Therefore the TCs will always follow the instructions of Turkey and will serve the Turkish instead of the Cypriot interests.

So not only what you are asking is undemocratic and unfair by itself, but will lead to even more unfair situations.

[growuptcs]

Paphitis sorry but ur argument sounds a lot galimatias to me. Now... You claim when I have half of the legislative and judicial power i become able to turn Cyprus into a Turkish state. How?

You have the other half of the legislative and judicial power but u claim u r not able to turn Cyprus into a Hellene state or stop TCs truning Cyprus into a Turkish state? Why?

1. extortion
2.they have leaders that rely ONLY on violence which is completely unethical

[insan]

Paphitis, in the begining of the British rule we were 1/3 of the total population and Cyprus was still an Ottoman territory.

And before the Ottoman rule you were 0%.

During those years, we the TCs asked form Brits for the establishment of a legislative assemebly on the basis of equality. Otherwise we would have always outvoted by GCs.

While before were happy to forcibly rule Cyprus by yourselves, without giving to GCs even a single vote.

Can u tell me what was wrong with it?

It is undemocratic and violates our rights.

It has always obviously seen that there has been 2 main communities in Cyprus.

What always? The first time that such thing as a "TC community" was mentioned was much less than 100 years ago.

Now why u intentionaly compare us with the minorities of Cyprus?

Because you are a minority.

Count me 5 probable to occure detrimental cases in a united Cyprus that 2 main communities of Cyprus have political equality. If u can count me 5 cases I will believe u that political equality of TC community would be detrimental for the rest.

There are not just 5 but tons of them. The reasons are:
1) The TCs have shown that they are greedy and do not accept to have their fair share. Today they demand 30% of land and 50% of power. Nothing will stop them to demand similar disproportionally large shares from everything, e.g. EU funds, profits from any oil we might find etc.

2) The TCs will always be indebted to Turkey because it will be with the brute force applied by Turkey that they would have gained all these unfair and disproportionally large gains on our expense. They will know that if they lose the support of Turkey they will risk to lose the unfair gains as well. Therefore the TCs will always follow the instructions of Turkey and will serve the Turkish instead of the Cypriot interests.

So not only what you are asking is undemocratic and unfair by itself, but will lead to even more unfair situations.

Don't worry Piratis, in this rapidly globalizing world, sooner or later u will become a minority in this region where Turks r majority. Until then bye.

[growuptcs]

insan:
Don't worry Piratis, in this rapidly globalizing world, sooner or later u will become a minority in this region where Turks r majority. Until then bye.

insan take off your Turkish military clothing. Put your army figures away that are on top of your "attila map" of Cyprus and be smart, don't fart.

[Paphitis]

Insan Wrote:

Can u tell me what was wrong with it?

A community of 18% is not proportionally equal to 82%.

The thing wrong with what you say is that the 82% do not have their fair share as far as democratic representation is concerned. This can only lead to major resentment as once again the TCs are advocating an Apartheid structure to the detriment of the majority.

If you want safeguards, then this can easily be provided by an Upper House Legislative Council or Senate. You may also end up with a TC administered area if there is a solution, but Federally citizens must be equal on an individual basis. The fact that a Bi-zonal, Bicommunal Solution is being discussed, is a major compromise made by Makarios himself, but you want more than this in order to turn Cyprus into a Turkish State.

The RoC Government's demonisation of the Cypriot Ethnos is cataclysmic!

Paphitis sorry but ur argument sounds a lot galimatias to me. Now... You claim when I have half of the legislative and judicial power i would become able to turn Cyprus into a Turkish state. How?

You have the other half of the legislative and judicial power but u claim u would not be able to turn Cyprus into a Hellene state or stop TCs turning Cyprus into a Turkish state? Why?

18% can not be politically equal to the 82%.

Any solution must respect the democratic rights of all citizens on an individual basis and with the EU Acquis implemented over the whole island.

Cyprus is now a member of the EU, and that should be adequate safeguards for everyone in this day and age.

It is absurd to think that RoC citizens have EU Acquis rights in all other EU states, where they are free to reside, work and purchase property, whereas they are excluded from returning to their homes in occupied Cyprus just a few kms away.

Cypriots must demand their EU rights on their own island, and ethnic segregation must end.