Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

insan, if you want the roots, here they are:



And if you want to look even deeper:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

[insan]

insan, if you want the roots, here they are:



And if you want to look even deeper:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

I previously proved u that divide and rule myth died a long ago. Please read the book "Cyprus under British rule", under the thread "knowledge is power". U talk like as if we weren't already divided because of being 2 rival communities since 1821. To the contrary, Brits exerted to integrate us in a consociational, self-government structure.

[Gabira]

Well you did edit your post ....

But your forgot this one:

As far as I am concerned, this whole article could be fabricated.

Pretty accusatory to use such a strong term as fabricated and condemning everyone associated with the article, including the eye-witness!

So as I said, you just keep filling in the gaps with crap ....

Yes, I did edit a couple of my posts to correct some spelling errors and to add a line or two within minutes, and long before your claims of me calling the eye witness a liar. At no time did I remove anything from my original posts

Again, purely your own twisted words and misguided perception of my comments.

Condemning everyone associated with the article, blah, blah. Now you're really clutching at straws

Is there no chance whatsoever that the contents within this article could have been fabricated ?

[DT.]

Well you did edit your post ....

But your forgot this one:

As far as I am concerned, this whole article could be fabricated.

Pretty accusatory to use such a strong term as fabricated and condemning everyone associated with the article, including the eye-witness!

So as I said, you just keep filling in the gaps with crap ....

Yes, I did edit a couple of my posts to correct some spelling errors and to add a line or two within minutes, and long before your claims of me calling the eye witness a liar. At no time did I remove anything from my original posts

Again, purely your own twisted words and misguided perception of my comments.

Condemning everyone associated with the article, blah, blah. Now you're really clutching at straws

Is there no chance whatsoever that the contents within this article could have been fabricated ?

no

[Piratis]

insan, if you want the roots, here they are:



And if you want to look even deeper:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

I previously proved u that divide and rule myth died a long ago. Please read the book "Cyprus under British rule", under the thread "knowledge is power". U talk like as if we weren't already divided because of being 2 rival communities since 1821. To the contrary, Brits exerted to integrate us in a consociational, self-government structure.

My friend, the communities were divided since the day your community was created in Cyprus, and the Muslims were given more rights, and you treated the Christians as second category citizens who had to pay double the taxes.

This is not a question of whether we were united or separated. We were separated, and this separation is something you enforced in order to benefit yourselves on our expense, and this is a separation you want to maintain, again to benefit yourselves on our expense.

This is a question of the root of the problem, and who attacked whom. And this is what I clearly answer with my post above.

[insan]

insan, if you want the roots, here they are:



And if you want to look even deeper:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

I previously proved u that divide and rule myth died a long ago. Please read the book "Cyprus under British rule", under the thread "knowledge is power". U talk like as if we weren't already divided because of being 2 rival communities since 1821. To the contrary, Brits exerted to integrate us in a consociational, self-government structure.

My friend, the communities were divided since the day your community was created in Cyprus, and the Muslims were given more rights, and you treated the Christians as second category citizens who had to pay double the taxes.

This is not a question of whether we were united or separated. We were separated, and this separation is something you enforced in order to benefit yourselves on our expense, and this is a separation you want to maintain, again to benefit yourselves on our expense.

This is a question of the root of the problem, and who attacked whom. And this is what I clearly answer with my post above.

The double taxation system was not something particular to GC community in order to gain their hatred. It was the then Ottoman taxation laws and had some rational basis.

[Piratis]

insan, if you want the roots, here they are:



And if you want to look even deeper:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

I previously proved u that divide and rule myth died a long ago. Please read the book "Cyprus under British rule", under the thread "knowledge is power". U talk like as if we weren't already divided because of being 2 rival communities since 1821. To the contrary, Brits exerted to integrate us in a consociational, self-government structure.

My friend, the communities were divided since the day your community was created in Cyprus, and the Muslims were given more rights, and you treated the Christians as second category citizens who had to pay double the taxes.

This is not a question of whether we were united or separated. We were separated, and this separation is something you enforced in order to benefit yourselves on our expense, and this is a separation you want to maintain, again to benefit yourselves on our expense.

This is a question of the root of the problem, and who attacked whom. And this is what I clearly answer with my post above.

The double taxation system was not something particular to GC community in order to gain their hatred. It was the then Ottoman taxation laws and had some rational basis.

What was the "rational basis" for imposing on Christians double the taxes than those the Muslims had to pay? And not accepting the Christian testimony in courts also had some "rational basis"?

What is the "rational"? That Muslims worth more than Christians? This is why even until today you insist in dividing people based on their language and religion and you do not accept democracy where all people will be equal without any racist Ottoman Style discriminations?

[EPSILON]

It was 1978 when 20 G/cs we visited Germany for 2 months trip , speaking in various places and presenting several pictures and actual stories of Turkish invasion.

George Liasis was one of us. I missed him all this time and suddently i saw him in TV last week, when the incident came again in public. I learned that he is now living in Athens . I will contact him very soon.

In Germany Liasis had some symptoms because of the bullets in his head and the German director of the youth hostel ,where we were staying for a while, started to shout him to shat up and to stop to make noise. The German was belong to the GERMAN/TURKS UNION.Fortunately ,in same room was an American to whom Liasis explained before his exprerience. The American took the German and sent him out of the room,asking him to not enter the room again until the G/cs depart from the youth hostel.

A war is creating stories,life experiences, which always are there to remind us the stupiness of humanity to fight each other.

[Viewpoint]

As i told previously, u should have prayed that Turkish army hadn't launched a 3rd phase of intervention in order to ward off all those EOKA-B guerillas.

It's the Turkish Cypriots that had comitted these attrocities and many others in 1974.

And by the same token...YOU should pray that the National Guard doesn't turn Kyrenia into glass in the future with all this incriminating evidence being dug up all the time, and the treasonous games your foolish leaders STILL keep playing despite the fact that they can’t even afford to buy a new pair of knickers, let alone play "power games"!

I'm not trying to justify what some groups of TC extremists or idiots or lunatics did but most probably the 11 years lasted, "RoC" originated physical and psychologic oppression caused them to went berserk. How else could it be explained? Could a mentally healthy person commit such an atrocity?

Then I hope you can understand the psychological condition of the native Cypriot people after being oppressed and murdered by the 10s of thousands by foreign invaders for centuries.

If you think that because you suffered for a decade during a conflict which you started in 1958, that gives you the right to kill 1000s, ethnically cleanse 100s of thousands and steal our lands, then I hope you will give the same excuse, multiplied by 30, to the native Cypriots who suffered under your oppressive rule not for 10 but for 300 years.

So if one action can excuse a reaction, then who is to blame is the one who started it all. And that is the Turks, in 1571, when the attacked and oppressed Cypriots for centuries, without previously the Cypriots harming the Turks in any way.

I acknowledge ur rightousness to a degree. However we had really no other options. Either we would accept minority status and let ourselves into a darksome future in our homeland Cyprus or we would struggle to create ourselves a safe territory to survive by fair means or foul.

What you say does not excuse you initial attack and the first 300 years of oppression against us though. It really was not our fault that your minority was created on our island and that you could not accept that Cyprus could be ruled democratically.

Furthermore your survival was not under threat. I many times gave you the Turkish minority of Rhodes as an example. Rhodes united with Greece in 1947 and the Turkish minority was not annihilated as your imaginary scenarios would have as believe.

Just like Cyprus was under the Ottoman and later British empires, against the will of Cypriots and with Cypriots being the subjects of those empires, instead Cyprus would be part of the Greek Republic, and Cypriots equal citizens of the Greek Republic, something that the vast majority of Cypriots wanted. GCs, TCs and the other minorities would continue to live in Cyprus just like they did under British or Ottoman Empires. (without you having any Ottoman Style privileges on our expense of course)

So don't create baseless unrealistic scenarios in order to excuse your attacks against us.

Could you please supply population figures of Turks in both Rhodes and Crete after the became part of Greece.

The figures for Rhodes are given by your friend Insan. Around 4000 when Rhodes united with Greece in 1947, around 5000 today - a 20% increase in population. And that is without the addition of Turkish Settlers.

Compare that with your population after 1974. Many TCs emigrated abroad and many continue to do so. Today the real TCs in Cyprus are less than what they used to be in the 50s and 60s.

So if instead of war and conflict you had accepted that Cypriots could decide the destiny of their own island in a democratic and peaceful way, and Cyprus united with Greece just as Rhodes did, then not only you would not have been annihilated, but your population would be higher.

Crete was part of Greece during the 1923 Exchange of Populations Agreement between Greece and Turkey. During the exchange 500.000 Turks moved from Greece (including Crete) to Turkey, and three times more, 1.500.000 Greeks moved from Turkey to Greece.

Since then, the minority of Turks that remained in Greece kept increasing, while the minority of Greeks that remained in Turkey is almost totally annihilated.

The Turks and other Muslims of Western Thrace were exempted from this transfer as well as the Greeks of Istanbul and the Aegean Islands of Imbros (Gökçeada) and Tenedos (Bozcaada). Due to punitive measures carried out by the Republic of Turkey, such as the 1932 parliamentary law which barred Greek citizens in Turkey from a series of 30 trades and professions from tailor and carpenter to medicine, law, and real estate,[8] the Greek population of Istanbul began to decline, as evidenced by demographic statistics. The Varlık Vergisi capital gains tax imposed in 1942 on wealthy non-Muslims in Turkey also served to reduce the economic potential of ethnic Greek businesspeople in Turkey. Furthermore, violent incidents as the Istanbul Pogrom (1955) directed against the ethnic Greek community greatly accelerated emigration of Greeks, reducing the 200,000-strong Greek minority in 1924 to just over 5,000 in 2005.[9] By contrast the Muslim community of Greece has increased in size to over 100,000 since the signing of the Lausane Treaty, while Greece is also host to tens of thousands of Muslim immigrants.

Here is the ethnic distribution in 1911, before the exchange:

http://www.emersonkent.com/images/balka ... r_1911.jpg

Kindly provide independent data to prove your claims, otherwise you are guesstimating everything.

[insan]

insan, if you want the roots, here they are:



And if you want to look even deeper:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

I previously proved u that divide and rule myth died a long ago. Please read the book "Cyprus under British rule", under the thread "knowledge is power". U talk like as if we weren't already divided because of being 2 rival communities since 1821. To the contrary, Brits exerted to integrate us in a consociational, self-government structure.

My friend, the communities were divided since the day your community was created in Cyprus, and the Muslims were given more rights, and you treated the Christians as second category citizens who had to pay double the taxes.

This is not a question of whether we were united or separated. We were separated, and this separation is something you enforced in order to benefit yourselves on our expense, and this is a separation you want to maintain, again to benefit yourselves on our expense.

This is a question of the root of the problem, and who attacked whom. And this is what I clearly answer with my post above.

The double taxation system was not something particular to GC community in order to gain their hatred. It was the then Ottoman taxation laws and had some rational basis.

What was the "rational basis" for imposing on Christians double the taxes than those the Muslims had to pay? And not accepting the Christian testimony in courts also had some "rational basis"?

What is the "rational"? That Muslims worth more than Christians? This is why even until today you insist in dividing people based on their language and religion and you do not accept democracy where all people will be equal without any racist Ottoman Style discriminations?

Turks were Muslims and were tolerant of other religions because of that. From its beginnings Islam had accepted the existence of other monotheistic religions. Jews and Christians had lived in -lands ruled by Islam since the time of the prophet Muhammad. Certain rules had evolved to order the relations between Muslim and non-Muslim: Islam was to be dominant; rulers were to be Muslim. Muslims were not allowed to convert to other religions, nor could non-Muslims attempt to convert Muslims. Non-Muslims were to wear distinctive clothing. In various places at various times non-Muslims were also restricted in certain ways. Perhaps the most important of the special regulations was the demand that Christians and Jews pay a special tax, the jizya, that was not paid by Muslims. This tax was paid by adult Christians and Jews who lived in Islamic states. By common belief, it was based on -an agreement forged between Christians and Muslims in the first days of Muslim conquest. In return for tolerance of religious practice and the protection of the Islamic state, the non-muslims agreed to pay the tax and to accept the restrictions on their clothing, etc.
In practical terms, the extra tax paid by non-Muslims can be viewed as a military exemption tax. Non Muslim males did not pay an extra tax, but they also remained on their farms or at businesses when the Muslims went off to war. For many, this would not have been a disadvantage.

http://www.globaled.org/nyworld/materia ... rkish.html

As for the inequal treatment towards Christians in Ottoman courts ; it was a type of dogmatic, religious discrimination that was fixed with a reform in 1854.