Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

judging by the general reactions of certain TC here - there are no myths.

Oh there are myths

The last Labour government told Turkey to invade...

or

Lord Callaghan blatently had no problem with Turkey invading and did nothing to stop this.

or how about this myth

Makarios was against Enosis after Cyprus' independance, thats why EOKA B came after him to kill him. We have said this a million times...but you pettyness of always wanting a GC leader to be a bad guy wont allow you to take it in.

here

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 507&#20507

were once again the myth is spread and on refutation - a total absense of any more input from the myth spreader.


Oh yes there certainly are myths and as a TC I more than happy to identify them as myths, even if the myth propagator seems reluctant to admit what myths they are, either the first time they spread them or in this thread, re Britain telling Turkey or doing absolutely nothing to stop Turkey in 74, where they denied having spread them in the first place

[Main_Source]

Where is the myth in Britain allowing Turkey to invade? Turkey abused their guarantor status...and although Britain was also a guarantor, they did nothing to stop the invasion.

and Makarios WAS against Enosis after the independance of Cyprus..and EOKA B DID come after him.

How is this false?

Erolz, its blatent to see that although you like to dress up your posts with a decorative use of literature, as well as being trigger happy with the quoting facility...your blatent disregard of any TC wrong doing make you still full of shit.

You have the same tunnel vision and selective views of history as arses such as VP.

Anyway, do you still fail to admit that TC have been fed flase propaganda by their leaders?

[insan]

Brief summary:

1- Some groups of GCs togteher with some groups of Greeks did everything to achieve ENOSIS.

2- Some groups of TCs togteher with some groups of Turks did everything to achieve Taksim.

3- Some groups of GCs did everything to achieve majority rule.

4- Some groups of TCs did everything to achieve political equality of two communities.

5- Neither Enosists(Grivasites) nor majority rulists accepted political equality of two communities.

6- US as an ally of Turkey and Greece; did its best to reach a joint acceptable solution between two of its important allies. Cyprus was not and has never been the only international issue for US. Most probably Cyprus problem has never been the first priority for US.



The rest of the story is about the consequences of "struggle" for the "cause" between "two tribes". It was not only an inter-communal strife for the "cause" but the strife of left-wing, right-wing as well.

[erolz]

Where is the myth in Britain allowing Turkey to invade? Turkey abused their guarantor status...and although Britain was also a guarantor, they did nothing to stop the invasion.

The myth is in your first claim - Britain told Turkey to invade and in your second claim that Britain did absolutely nothing to try and stop the Turkish action. Even in this third version there is the myth that Britain did nothing to try and stop the invasion. That is just not true. Certainly the did not manage to stop it but to claim they did nothing is just to believe the untrue. Of course this insistance on something that is not true could not be tunnel vision.

and Makarios WAS against Enosis after the independance of Cyprus..and EOKA B DID come after him.

It is a myth to say Makarios was aginst Enosis after independance (1960). It is clearly so, by his _repeated_ words and his actions.

How is this false?

It is false because it is false.

Erolz, its blatent to see that although you like to dress up your posts with a decorative use of literature, as well as being trigger happy with the quoting facility...

You claim Makarios was against enosis from 1960 - I show quote after quote from the man himself that totaly contradict this myth of yours and then you 'accuse me' of being 'trigger happy' with the quote facility!

your blatent disregard of any TC wrong doing make you still full of shit.

I could show quote after quote after quote of mine from this forum where I have done exactly what you claim I 'blantanly disregard' doing. Of course evidence is imaterial and if I were to present it i the form of quotes of my previous posts no doubt you will slate me for this as well.

Can you show me even the merest fraction of posts of yours where you have admited any wrongdoing on the part of GC comparted with where I have done so for TC?

You have the same tunnel vision and selective views of history as arses such as VP.

I have reapeatedly admited wrongdoning on the part of TC / T yet you claim I show "blatent disregard of any TC wrong doing " - and I have tunnel vision? You continue to insit on the ridiculous assertion that Makarios was against Enosis after 1960 and I have tunnel vision?

Anyway, do you still fail to admit that TC have been fed flase propaganda by their leaders?

Yes I admit this. In fact not only to admit it now but once again I could show you countless historic posts where I talk about the relentless propaganda war from BOTH sides. Can you show me any posts of your where you accept anything similar in regard of GC? Yet I am the one with 'tunnel vision'?

Really Main I think I should leave you alone for a while. Shooting fish in a barrel is only enjoyable for so long and then it becomes boring and tedious. I suggest you take your best option and simply 'disapear' from this thread. Do not force me to do a detailed analysis of my posts and in what % I admit wrongdoing on the part of TC and then compare it with your posts and in what % of these you admit GC wrongdoing and then ask the question who has shown more signs of tunnel vision based on their own posts. It would not be pretty believe me.

[Main_Source]

what, you have taken a log of everytime I have posted about the history of the Cyprus issue? You are sad as well as being full of shit? lol

anyway, go on...i'm forcing you to do it.

[erolz]

what, you have taken a log of everytime I have posted about the history of the Cyprus issue?

There is a total history of all of my posts and all of yours as part of the forum.

You are sad as well as being full of shit? lol

Isnt this it just childish name calling? From the forum rules

Personal attacks are not allowed - Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully without insult and personal attack.

Still don't worry I will not 'report' you - it's not my style.

anyway, go on...i'm forcing you to do it.

Nahh - I think I'll decline for now thanks.

[gabaston]

the biggest load of shit i have encountered since joining this forum has come from paps

number of tcs killed 63-74 none.

would it not be better to acknowledge the biggest cypriot shit monger of all
time before accusing others?

[Main_Source]

oh you've decided to decline now?

Why dont you do it? Because you really haven't proved your point. Im not the only person that can see how biased you are and can never admit to anything bad by any TC ot Turk. For you, there is always a Greek behind the problems caused by any Turks.

[brother]

the biggest load of shit i have encountered since joining this forum has come from paps

number of tcs killed 63-74 none.

would it not be better to acknowledge the biggest cypriot shit monger of all
time before accusing others?

My favourite was when the SG confirmed his lies, normal politicians would not recover from that but not "Teflon Tassos" where nothing sticks.

[erolz]

oh you've decided to decline now?

Why dont you do it? Because you really haven't proved your point. Im not the only person that can see how biased you are and can never admit to anything bad by any TC ot Turk. For you, there is always a Greek behind the problems caused by any Turks.

Just a small selection of quotes of mine from pervious posts that proove your assertion wrong.

I believe both sides have _some_ responsibility for the breakdown but not equal responsibility.

The people that have the primary responsibilty for the divisions in Cyprus are the Cypriots.

[note the use of Cypriots - not GC or TC but just cypriots]


I am deeply sorry for the loss of so many GC (and other) lives in Cyprus in 74 and all others times. I have the deepest sympathy for those that suffered loss and pain. What I do not accept is that TC are solely to blame for the regrettable events of 74 or that these events happened because TC are thieves.

Too many murders have literaly got away with murder in Cyprus and that is true. It is true of GC murderers as well as TC ones.

The political situation in Cyprus dominates everything else and we should all be ashamed by this. Even 'justice' is to be persued only within the limits and bickerings of the 'political situation' and as a 'tool' to political aims and not as a guiding principal for a humane and just society. Both sides are guilty of this and we all suffer as a consequence.

I am in general trying to avoid laying one sided blame. I do not always sucseed in doing this. I do not deny what has happened in Cyprus and the part played in this by TC and Turkey - along with GC, Greece the UK the US and others. No side is totaly innocent and no side is totaly guilty. I have my own views about what proportion of blame attributes to whom in the various periods - as no doubt you do.

However that primary responsibility and blame for what happened in Cyprus and the state it is in today lays with Cypriots - not the British - and it is this that people are saying. It was Cypriots who sought divisive and 'racist' objectives with little or no regard for other Cypriots wishes. It was Cypriots who decided to use systematic violence to achieve political aims. It was Cypriots who killed Cypriots in the name of their motherlands and exclusive desires for Cyprus. It is Cypriots that have failed since 1960 to today to find peaceful ways of resolving their differences and living togeahter in harmony in Cyprus. Yes others have contributed to the problems, unwittingly and with intent. Yes at times other have sought to exploit divisions in Cyprus for their own objectives but the primary responsibility for the state of Cyprus today and the horrors it experienced in the past lays with Cypriots and no one else.

[note the use of Cypriots - not GC or TC but just cypriots]

I have never tried to throw the entire blame on GC.

I talk of the blame of each community in this failure.

I will accept the blame for the TC community for the part they played in events of 74 that caused and continue to cause much pain and suffering to GC. I do not accept that the TC community is to blame for what the ottomans did to GC from 1451-1900.

I am not trying to claim GC are responsible for the greater part of the Cyprus problem as it is today. I am trying to refute your thesis that TC are equaly or more responsible for the mess upto 74.

Undoubtedly both sides have distorted the truth in the propaganda war.

We (TC) certainly have much of the blame in this period

I am saying that the proper perspective is one of blame accruing to both sides but not equally.

I do believe that both sides have been waging a propaganda war aginst each other for as long as there has been two sides.

I think that both sides 'offical' versions of history are little more than propaganda.

Both sides have been waging a relentless propganda war since the very exisstance of Cyprus as an indpendent country. That is a fact.

Now this is just a subset of times I have admitted that TC have some blame and have admitted to TC 'doing something bad' and using propaganda.

I tried a quick search to find quotes of YOURS where you admit GC wrongdoing or use of propaganda. Unfortunatley I could not find a single instance of this in my quick search! Not one! Of course maybe I missed these examples of your own 'non bias' and 'open mindedness' and ability to admit GC wrongdoing - so please feel free to present any such examples. Of course another possibility is that such examples do not exist? I can find times where you accuse me and other TC of bias (quite a few). I can find times where you talk of TC propaganda (quite a few). I can find nothing from you to 'balance' this. No admission of GC wrongdoing. No posts accepting GC propaganda.

So please do continue to try and convince me and others of my 'bias' and inability to accept any TC worngdoing - despite the evidence in my own posts and despite your own clear bias and inability to admit GC wrongdoing based on your OWN posts. We have a phrase in the UK 'look at the kettle calling the pot black'. We also have a word (derived from Greek I believe) - Hyprocrite.