Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

The other is called give and take.

You mean GCs to give and TCs to take so the TCs will go from 18% of land to 30%?

You either think you are so clever or you think I am stupid.
Let me explain.

Let us assume that I have 1 donum in the south worth 100,000 and you expect me to exchange that with 1 donum in Karpaz worth 1000. Who is stealing who's land?
You thieving sod.

Look fool, you were a MINORITY of 18% and only owned around 12% of land so any notion that you can “exchange” land with the Greek Cypriots is a joke.

To each his own Kochan…

Prove me with a credible evidence that private + state land ownership/share of TCs is 12.3%. According to TC soces it's around 29.2%.

Do the TC's have the DEEDS to prove this claim, or is it only because Annan Plan said so.?

I can see Insane scoring another "own goal" here.!

Pick-a-boo the staphilynoidea ; when Ottomans ceded Cyprus to Brits, the Ottoman muslim population constituted 1/3 of island population. Land belongs to Turkish Cypriots could not be less than %30 but could be more because before Brits take the rule of Cyprus, rulers were Ottoman Turks.

I think with this u scored a few dozens of goal into your own goal post

So, the simple answer to my question without all the other nonsense you wrote, the answer is NO, the TC's do not have DEEDS to prove their claim.!

Insane, if we were to take your silly reasoning, does that not mean then, that since before 1571 there were NO Ottomans in Cyprus, therefore all 100% of the land should go to the GC's.! Why do you arbitrarily only go back only as far as when the Brits came and the Ottos left.? Sorry Insane, but your reasoning is sillier than you I'm afraid. Either put up the proof of ownership or shut it up.!

Just one more point. If the Ottos were the occupiers of the whole island, why would there have been any reason to have direct ownership of any land. They believed they owned the whole island as conquerors, and when they left as losers, they lost the whole island. Perhaps only after the Brits arrived, that the remaining Ottos in Cyprus actually started owning land.....legally, or else the Brits would have given them their 30% from day one as you claimed. Man, which ever propaganda school you went to, must have passed out graduation diplomas like candy to kids. Do you ever stop and think in what you write:? That was a rhetorical question.!

Now, this really is an "OWN GOAL" with EPIC proportions.!:lol:

When did the serfs of Cyprus owned land before Ottomans? Egyptian era? Lusignan? Venetian? Only under Ottoman rule the serfs of Cyprus owned land which the then population of the serfs of Cyprus was around 60.000.

U got 100 more goals into ur own goal post pick-a-boo. On the other hand, u can be sure of that we both have titles and deeds; besides land registry records of 1945 cencus.

The only thing that counts today are the DEEDS of ownership and not the proportion of people in 1945 census or the 2009 census to determine how much land should go to whom. It is all about the ownership deeds. Now, either show them and claim your land or just shut up. No court in the world will accept your silly argument and no GC is going to give their land to you that they have the deeds for. Blame the Ottomans for being kicked out by the Brits if you think that the TC's should get more land than they actually own with deeds in their hands.!

Sounds to me like, it is all the morally corrupt people who bought stolen GC land is making this cockamamie stories about what the Ottos owned in the "Good o'l Days".!

It is Talat who proposed the establishment of a bi-communal property commission just a few days ago. Let's see the deeds then...

It is you who is claiming that the TC's own 29+ %, so go ahead and present the deeds to Talat.!

Just make sure they are RoC issued deeds. No monopoly game type of deeds are acceptable by the RoC, even if Talat accepts them.!

Sure... Sure.. They will all be Roc issued deeds but not "RoC" issued, garbled deeds. All will be revealed. Sure... Sure...

I see.! So all you have is a bunch of Monopoly Game Deeds that you think you can exchange them for RoC Deeds.!

Well actually Insane, what I meant by RoC deeds was, I'm talking about all the deeds since the Brits took over from the Ottos in 1878. It's just that, the RoC was put in charge of all those deeds from the Brit in 1960 when Cyprus became a Republic, therefore bring all your deeds from 1878 and all the deeds issued by the RoC since 1960 and claim all the land that belongs to you.!

Now, put up or shut up.!

[miltiades]

One important point here is that European as well as International banks will accept RoC issued property deeds as collateral in lending you money .
The same of course can not be said of "deeds" issued by a non recognized " nation " .
The moral here is that for those that persist in their denial of the RoC , PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS !!!

[YFred]

I see this thread reverted to type. Why are we not discussing the options available?

Which approach and why?

Nobody needs to produce any deeds. Mr T and Mr X have all the info in front of them with all the technical expertise.

The actual jurisdictions size cannot be the sum of all the deeds owned by each side. If you applied it then in effect you will force the first option.

Has everyone gone blind on this? I’ve got some of those 3D glasses from that horror movie I once went to. Perhaps we should find some more, I see some people are in need of them.

[YFred]

One important point here is that European as well as International banks will accept RoC issued property deeds as collateral in lending you money .
The same of course can not be said of "deeds" issued by a non recognized " nation " .
The moral here is that for those that persist in their denial of the RoC , PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS !!!

Miltiades,

This is what RoC hid behind all those years, and did their worst onto the TCs quite effectively.

There is a slight problem with your thought. If this begins to effect Turkey's chances of getting into EU, it becomes a different ball game. There are those in Turkey who thought the best solution was to take the whole of Cyprus and Install a puppet government that would do as its told. They may yet come to power.
That then becomes the real danger.

[miltiades]

One important point here is that European as well as International banks will accept RoC issued property deeds as collateral in lending you money .
The same of course can not be said of "deeds" issued by a non recognized " nation " .
The moral here is that for those that persist in their denial of the RoC , PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS !!!

Miltiades,

This is what RoC hid behind all those years, and did their worst onto the TCs quite effectively.

There is a slight problem with your thought. If this begins to effect Turkey's chances of getting into EU, it becomes a different ball game. There are those in Turkey who thought the best solution was to take the whole of Cyprus and Install a puppet government that would do as its told. They may yet come to power.
That then becomes the real danger.

Fred the realities are confronting us just as they have over the last 35 years.Turkey is occupying a large area of Cyprus , seen as an occupation by all nations . Surely no one thought that the RoC ought to have accepted and recognised the legitimacy of such a situation , Turkey put forward the argument that as a guarantor power she had the legal right to intervene . She did , but failed miserably to restore the legitimacy of the RoC AND WITHDRAW ITS OCCUPYING TROOPS .
As for Turkey ever contemplating the occupation of the entire island then I regret to say that only fools would possibly either wish or encourage such a detrimental act against a part of Europe , simply Fred she will not be permitted , this time she has no excuse , no rights of intervention .
Those rights she abused way back in 1974 and she must never again be trusted with such intervention powers , the people of Cyprus will not accept this. A very large number of T/Cs , an increasing number I might add , consider Turkey as an occupying power . What disturbs me is the attitude of some G/Cs who by their views are causing the mistrust amongst our people to remain on focus when efforts should be made to bring our people closer together and away from Turkey .

[YFred]

One important point here is that European as well as International banks will accept RoC issued property deeds as collateral in lending you money .
The same of course can not be said of "deeds" issued by a non recognized " nation " .
The moral here is that for those that persist in their denial of the RoC , PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS !!!

Miltiades,

This is what RoC hid behind all those years, and did their worst onto the TCs quite effectively.

There is a slight problem with your thought. If this begins to effect Turkey's chances of getting into EU, it becomes a different ball game. There are those in Turkey who thought the best solution was to take the whole of Cyprus and Install a puppet government that would do as its told. They may yet come to power.
That then becomes the real danger.

Fred the realities are confronting us just as they have over the last 35 years.Turkey is occupying a large area of Cyprus , seen as an occupation by all nations . Surely no one thought that the RoC ought to have accepted and recognised the legitimacy of such a situation , Turkey put forward the argument that as a guarantor power she had the legal right to intervene . She did , but failed miserably to restore the legitimacy of the RoC AND WITHDRAW ITS OCCUPYING TROOPS .
As for Turkey ever contemplating the occupation of the entire island then I regret to say that only fools would possibly either wish or encourage such a detrimental act against a part of Europe , simply Fred she will not be permitted , this time she has no excuse , no rights of intervention .
Those rights she abused way back in 1974 and she must never again be trusted with such intervention powers , the people of Cyprus will not accept this. A very large number of T/Cs , an increasing number I might add , consider Turkey as an occupying power . What disturbs me is the attitude of some G/Cs who by their views are causing the mistrust amongst our people to remain on focus when efforts should be made to bring our people closer together and away from Turkey .

I agree Miltiades, it is not my wish, but the danger is there. Russians and Amercians have invaded other countries on pretext of defence.

[miltiades]

The spanner in the works of the European mechanism is Brittain. When this nation begins to accept that only two options are available ie stay in Europe and adapt , or get out of Europe go back to bloody inches and feet , pounds and stones .
What is the relevance of my mentioning this ?
The EU would be a much stronger and effective force both commercially and militarily if only this "used"to be Great nation of Brittain makes its mind up as to what direction it wants to go.
As far as Sterling is concerned recent events have shown what a folly it has been not joining the Euro when Stg was at a reasonable exchange rate. Most Brits in Cyprus still support the retention of Stg !!!

Turkey would never in a million years even consider keeping the occupying troops in Cyprus let alone occupy the entire island , simply a strong EU would not permit it , Cyprus is an integral part of the UE and sooner or later militarily Cyprus could be an extension of the military might of all of the EU nations.

The time is fast approaching when the EU will have under its command millions of troops , Cyprus will be a part of this new superpower that just has to develop for the sake of all Europeans.

[Viewpoint]

An independent committee can evaluate and decide claims, but Im pretty certain GCs would be against this?

Do you want a committee to decide if your house legally belongs to you or not.?

I'm sure, as soon as you provide the proof what they need from you, the deeds, it will be determined that that house belongs to you, so let the committee check everyone’s deeds.!

You will agree to this arrangement, right. VP.?

As long as it is independent and examines throughly claims this will be OK by the TCs.

Examine what thoroughly exactly. Don't you not believe that the deeds to your house are real deeds.? All real deeds are RoC issued with registration to prove it. The only time there needs to be any investigation, is when more than one person makes a claim to the same piece of land. At that point, the one with the original and authentic deed gets the land, and the other goes to jail for trying to commit fraud.!

I am willing to have my deeds checked why not everyone? what have people got to hide...the "RoC" only lasted 3 years so all claims should be checked so that no one is left with any suspicians of manipulation or fraud.

Who said that RoC only lasted for 3 years? You?

The UN were RoC is a member, and EU which RoC joined in 2004, don't agree with you.

Republic of Cyprus is the one and only state in Cyprus and the one and only authority to issue title deeds. If you have any complaints against RoC in this respect then feel free to go to the ECHR about it.

The "RoC" is only an interim state until you resolve the division, you have seen what the EU and UN can back the demonized AP. So I would not feel to comfortable as you are clearly one who prefers the current situation and the GC sole domination of our stolen rights. If you have all this recognition and legality why dont you solve your peoblems with those that recognize you?? without us you can do jack shit and not gives a figs arse about you about time you realize this and understood that wihtout our agreement this island will stay divided for a long time to come, ho I forgot thats really what you wanted anyway..all your posts support this fact.

[Viewpoint]

The spanner in the works of the European mechanism is Brittain. When this nation begins to accept that only two options are available ie stay in Europe and adapt , or get out of Europe go back to bloody inches and feet , pounds and stones .
What is the relevance of my mentioning this ?
The EU would be a much stronger and effective force both commercially and militarily if only this "used"to be Great nation of Brittain makes its mind up as to what direction it wants to go.
As far as Sterling is concerned recent events have shown what a folly it has been not joining the Euro when Stg was at a reasonable exchange rate. Most Brits in Cyprus still support the retention of Stg !!!

Turkey would never in a million years even consider keeping the occupying troops in Cyprus let alone occupy the entire island , simply a strong EU would not permit it , Cyprus is an integral part of the UE and sooner or later militarily Cyprus could be an extension of the military might of all of the EU nations.

The time is fast approaching when the EU will have under its command millions of troops , Cyprus will be a part of this new superpower that just has to develop for the sake of all Europeans.

Wouldnt put to much faith in the EU, each member state is out for themselves and will only act if the can benefit. Just ask yourselves how much momentum they have given the Cyprus issue since joining the EU? near enough nothing and thats what it looks like for the future. The support for the EU in the TRNC has near enough dissapeared givernment offices have stopped cooperating and if Eroğlus party win will grind to a stop all together, this will include the current talks. With Turkey losing ground in their move towards the EU and what looks like another landslide win for Erdoğan Turkey will move closer and closer to the East and you GCs can kiss any chance of a deal goodbye forever. You have to act clever and allow the north to become financially indepedent of Turkey so that we can say no and yes to your concerns, without this I cannot see anyway out of the current situation the leaders could meet another 1000 times it will not produce the result we are all looking for, this is the reality everyone has to face becuase asyou can all see the current GC policies are not bringing about any form of chnage or advancement, Turkey is and will always be one step ahead becuase she has the TCs on her side, who would never bite off the hand that feeds them, its that hand the GCs have to allow the TCs to turn away but with no other alternative life line the current status quo will be around far after we are all dead and forgotten. So in fact we may all say we are more educated than our forefathers but they had an excuse we do not....yet we are not different from them just as uneducated and ignorant as we do not have the vision or the desire to bring about a structure that would allow us all to live in harmony.

[YFred]

The spanner in the works of the European mechanism is Brittain. When this nation begins to accept that only two options are available ie stay in Europe and adapt , or get out of Europe go back to bloody inches and feet , pounds and stones .
What is the relevance of my mentioning this ?
The EU would be a much stronger and effective force both commercially and militarily if only this "used"to be Great nation of Brittain makes its mind up as to what direction it wants to go.
As far as Sterling is concerned recent events have shown what a folly it has been not joining the Euro when Stg was at a reasonable exchange rate. Most Brits in Cyprus still support the retention of Stg !!!

Turkey would never in a million years even consider keeping the occupying troops in Cyprus let alone occupy the entire island , simply a strong EU would not permit it , Cyprus is an integral part of the UE and sooner or later militarily Cyprus could be an extension of the military might of all of the EU nations.

The time is fast approaching when the EU will have under its command millions of troops , Cyprus will be a part of this new superpower that just has to develop for the sake of all Europeans.

Wouldnt put to much faith in the EU, each member state is out for themselves and will only act if the can benefit. Just ask yourselves how much momentum they have given the Cyprus issue since joining the EU? near enough nothing and thats what it looks like for the future. The support for the EU in the TRNC has near enough dissapeared givernment offices have stopped cooperating and if Eroğlus party win will grind to a stop all together, this will include the current talks. With Turkey losing ground in their move towards the EU and what looks like another landslide win for Erdoğan Turkey will move closer and closer to the East and you GCs can kiss any chance of a deal goodbye forever. You have to act clever and allow the north to become financially indepedent of Turkey so that we can say no and yes to your concerns, without this I cannot see anyway out of the current situation the leaders could meet another 1000 times it will not produce the result we are all looking for, this is the reality everyone has to face becuase asyou can all see the current GC policies are not bringing about any form of chnage or advancement, Turkey is and will always be one step ahead becuase she has the TCs on her side, who would never bite off the hand that feeds them, its that hand the GCs have to allow the TCs to turn away but with no other alternative life line the current status quo will be around far after we are all dead and forgotten. So in fact we may all say we are more educated than our forefathers but they had an excuse we do not....yet we are not different from them just as uneducated and ignorant as we do not have the vision or the desire to bring about a structure that would allow us all to live in harmony.

The difference between us VP is that I believe Talat has that vision where as Mr X has found his hands and feet tied by his political environment.
God help us all.