Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

This is Piratis history, propaganda junk.

Hope will come in time, the above listed people are almost extinct.

Usual tactics. When you can't argue with the facts start the personal attacks.

I cant argue?

All you do is repeat yourself, thats hardly an argument.

[insan]

We hear so many objections about "Majority Rule" because the TCs fear they will not be heard, being only 18%, and so it is seen as a way for the GCs to rule over everyone.

But for most things passing through government legislature, I'll bet the TCs would vote exactly the same way as Mr and Mrs Average Yiannis GCopoulos.

For instance:

Should we spend more on the Health service? Yes or No
Should it be illegal to name a pig Napoleon? Yes or No
Should we improve our Roads? Yes or No
Should we cut Carbon emissions? Yes or No
Should people over 70 be forced to wear false teeth? Yes or No
Should we have heavier fines for animal cruelty? Yes or No
Should we strive to make Cyprus a Global Economy? Yes or No
Should we help the poor and underprivileged? Yes or No
Should we reduce the retirement age to 50? Yes or No

Well I don't know about you, but I voted Yes to 8 out of the 9.

I reckon most people would vote the same as me!

So what's wrong with Majority Rule?

When majority rules in Cyprus; highly probable to occure situations:

1- Objection of anything considered detrimental for the communal interests of TC community would be just a symbolic democracy show. 8 VS 2 = TC loose

2- If TC community wishes comprehensive bi-lateral relations with Turkey as GC community has with Greece; it is obvious that vast majority of GC community would object. Result: 8 VS 2 = TC loose

3- If TC community objects to accept EOKA as a liberation fighters organization... Result: 8 VS 2 = TC loose

I can count many more but even just 3 highly probable to occure situations r sufficient to portray the future of TC community in a united RoC where majority rules.

Countries make Bi-lateral agreements with other countries and not individual states within a country. If that were to be allowed, the next thing you will do, is to give Turkey permission to keep 40,000 troops in the north state. That would be the same thing as having an "Open Marriage". Are you into open marriages, Insan.?

The most important protection for the TC's is to get all their protections into the constitution, where if such bad legistlation is introduced, that it will become unconstitutional, even if it was voted on.

The second protection for the TC's is to maintain 50% power in the upper house with veto power, all democratically, is to adopt my "BBF" plan.!

In a united Cyprus where the legislative and judicial power r distributed 50/50; any irrational and unconstitutional wishes/desires/demands of either communities would be doomed to fail.

I don't believe in any form of a united Cyprus would be viable if vast majority of GC community wouldn't genuinely respect the politically equal status of TC community. In a case where vast majority of GC community respect the politically equal status of TC community; there would be no irrational rivalry between 2 communities and no irrational demands such as asking 40.000 Turkish troops to be stationed in North.

So let alone an "open marriage", I don't want any type of reunification of 2 communities before I am persuaded that vast majority of GC community genuinely considers TC community as a politically equal state partner.

This thread is a very good opportunity to discuss what "majority rule" would case in a united RoC but it seems the thread ruined by going too much off topic.

[miltiades]

As long as morons like Piratis and Sotos who believe that Enosis is their "democratic" right exist, we will never have democracy because we cannot afford to.

This just proves even further that the Turkish Army needs to be here until time washes out these racist cockroaches from the Cypriot population so that we can have peace some day.

I often wonder if there is real hope for us TCs with people like Piratis, Sotos, Kifeas and Oracle around.

Then I read posts from my Dear friends Miltiades and Bananiot who give me hope and encouragement. We'll have to wait and see.

M welcome back where have you been my dear friend !

[Piratis]

Nobody talks about enosis anymore.Why do you keep bringing it up?Do you want partition?

Obviously you have not been around long enough to meet Piratis!

I am talking about the historical facts my friend, not about what I personally want. What I want is a trully independent Cyprus.

But the historical fact is that Cyprus had every right to unite with whomever the Cypriot people democratically choose.

According to the resolution about decolonization "integration into an independent State" is one of the "three legitimate options of full self-government."

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

I remember when Turkey was threatening Cyprus with another invasion if we dared to unite with EU. Unfortunately for them this time they could not use their Turkish minority on the island to create trouble and deny to Cypriots the right to unite their island with whomever they democratically choose to.

When did Turkey threaten u with invasion in order to prevent ur one sided EU accession? Do u have some credible evidence regarding Turkish threats?

The threatened with "reprisals" they didn't say anything about invasion directly. Even what they did in 1974 they still don't want to call it an invasion

The same with the S300 missiles case. Cyprus wanted to import a defensive missile system and the Turks were threatening us again. The same recently with the oil exploration.

So stop hiding behind your finger. Turkey is using threats and brute force in order to deny from Cypriots what they have every right to do. They did this in the past and they continue doing it today.

Union with Greece, union with EU, bringing the S300, oil exploration in our economic zone etc, are all examples of things that Cypriots had the right to do, and Turks used threads and in some occasions brute force in order to prevent us from exercising our rights.

[Piratis]

This is Piratis history, propaganda junk.

Hope will come in time, the above listed people are almost extinct.

Usual tactics. When you can't argue with the facts start the personal attacks.

I cant argue?

All you do is repeat yourself, thats hardly an argument.

You want me to change my arguments to something that will be easier for you to defeat?

[shahmaran]

This is Piratis history, propaganda junk.

Hope will come in time, the above listed people are almost extinct.

Usual tactics. When you can't argue with the facts start the personal attacks.

I cant argue?

All you do is repeat yourself, thats hardly an argument.

You want me to change my arguments to something that will be easier for you to defeat?

There is nothing left to defeat from your so called arguments.

You put forward wrong historical facts, hardly facts actually, simply your interpretation of history, which concludes that this is not our country.

Well obviously you are full of it, how can you expect to be taken seriously?

Even GC's see you as an extremists joke, what more do you want?

[insan]

We hear so many objections about "Majority Rule" because the TCs fear they will not be heard, being only 18%, and so it is seen as a way for the GCs to rule over everyone.

But for most things passing through government legislature, I'll bet the TCs would vote exactly the same way as Mr and Mrs Average Yiannis GCopoulos.

For instance:

Should we spend more on the Health service? Yes or No
Should it be illegal to name a pig Napoleon? Yes or No
Should we improve our Roads? Yes or No
Should we cut Carbon emissions? Yes or No
Should people over 70 be forced to wear false teeth? Yes or No
Should we have heavier fines for animal cruelty? Yes or No
Should we strive to make Cyprus a Global Economy? Yes or No
Should we help the poor and underprivileged? Yes or No
Should we reduce the retirement age to 50? Yes or No

Well I don't know about you, but I voted Yes to 8 out of the 9.

I reckon most people would vote the same as me!

So what's wrong with Majority Rule?

When majority rules in Cyprus; highly probable to occure situations:

1- Objection of anything considered detrimental for the communal interests of TC community would be just a symbolic democracy show. 8 VS 2 = TC loose

2- If TC community wishes comprehensive bi-lateral relations with Turkey as GC community has with Greece; it is obvious that vast majority of GC community would object. Result: 8 VS 2 = TC loose

3- If TC community objects to accept EOKA as a liberation fighters organization... Result: 8 VS 2 = TC loose

I can count many more but even just 3 highly probable to occure situations r sufficient to portray the future of TC community in a united RoC where majority rules.

Countries make Bi-lateral agreements with other countries and not individual states within a country. If that were to be allowed, the next thing you will do, is to give Turkey permission to keep 40,000 troops in the north state. That would be the same thing as having an "Open Marriage". Are you into open marriages, Insan.?

The most important protection for the TC's is to get all their protections into the constitution, where if such bad legistlation is introduced, that it will become unconstitutional, even if it was voted on.

The second protection for the TC's is to maintain 50% power in the upper house with veto power, all democratically, is to adopt my "BBF" plan.!

In a united Cyprus where the legislative and judicial power r distributed 50/50; any irrational and unconstitutional wishes/desires/demands of either communities would be doomed to fail.

I don't believe in any form of a united Cyprus would be viable if vast majority of GC community wouldn't genuinely respect the politically equal status of TC community. In a case where vast majority of GC community respect the politically equal status of TC community; there would be no irrational rivalry between 2 communities and no irrational demands such as asking 40.000 Turkish troops to be stationed in North.

So let alone an "open marriage", I don't want any type of reunification of 2 communities before I am persuaded that vast majority of GC community genuinely considers TC community as a politically equal state partner.

This thread is a very good opportunity to discuss what "majority rule" would case in a united RoC but it seems the thread ruined by going too much off topic.

This thread is a very good opportunity to discuss what "majority rule" would case in a united RoC but it seems the thread ruined by going too much off topic. and it seems no one can stop going off topic

[Piratis]

We hear so many objections about "Majority Rule" because the TCs fear they will not be heard, being only 18%, and so it is seen as a way for the GCs to rule over everyone.

But for most things passing through government legislature, I'll bet the TCs would vote exactly the same way as Mr and Mrs Average Yiannis GCopoulos.

For instance:

Should we spend more on the Health service? Yes or No
Should it be illegal to name a pig Napoleon? Yes or No
Should we improve our Roads? Yes or No
Should we cut Carbon emissions? Yes or No
Should people over 70 be forced to wear false teeth? Yes or No
Should we have heavier fines for animal cruelty? Yes or No
Should we strive to make Cyprus a Global Economy? Yes or No
Should we help the poor and underprivileged? Yes or No
Should we reduce the retirement age to 50? Yes or No

Well I don't know about you, but I voted Yes to 8 out of the 9.

I reckon most people would vote the same as me!

So what's wrong with Majority Rule?

When majority rules in Cyprus; highly probable to occure situations:

1- Objection of anything considered detrimental for the communal interests of TC community would be just a symbolic democracy show. 8 VS 2 = TC loose

2- If TC community wishes comprehensive bi-lateral relations with Turkey as GC community has with Greece; it is obvious that vast majority of GC community would object. Result: 8 VS 2 = TC loose

3- If TC community objects to accept EOKA as a liberation fighters organization... Result: 8 VS 2 = TC loose

I can count many more but even just 3 highly probable to occure situations r sufficient to portray the future of TC community in a united RoC where majority rules.

Countries make Bi-lateral agreements with other countries and not individual states within a country. If that were to be allowed, the next thing you will do, is to give Turkey permission to keep 40,000 troops in the north state. That would be the same thing as having an "Open Marriage". Are you into open marriages, Insan.?

The most important protection for the TC's is to get all their protections into the constitution, where if such bad legistlation is introduced, that it will become unconstitutional, even if it was voted on.

The second protection for the TC's is to maintain 50% power in the upper house with veto power, all democratically, is to adopt my "BBF" plan.!

In a united Cyprus where the legislative and judicial power r distributed 50/50; any irrational and unconstitutional wishes/desires/demands of either communities would be doomed to fail.

I don't believe in any form of a united Cyprus would be viable if vast majority of GC community wouldn't genuinely respect the politically equal status of TC community. In a case where vast majority of GC community respect the politically equal status of TC community; there would be no irrational rivalry between 2 communities and no irrational demands such as asking 40.000 Turkish troops to be stationed in North.

So let alone an "open marriage", I don't want any type of reunification of 2 communities before I am persuaded that vast majority of GC community genuinely considers TC community as a politically equal state partner.

This thread is a very good opportunity to discuss what "majority rule" would case in a united RoC but it seems the thread ruined by going too much off topic.

Insan, majority rule is an integral part of a democratic state. Majority rule is a way to come to some decision.

It would be nice if we could all agree all the time, but that never happens. this is why we need systems that would allow a state to take some decision.

One system is monarchy, where one individual who does not necessarily have the popular support, takes all the decisions. He might take advices from others, but he is the one who decides in the end.

The way that democracy works, is that you have certain rules which are laid down by the constitution, international law, human rights, EU laws in the case of EU members like Cyprus, and a government which is elected by the majority of people takes the decisions within the limits of this framework. The government on most issues tries to keep most people satisfied, so they will have the chance to be elected again.

In the system you support there is no mechanism of taking decisions. You split Cyprus into two groups. When there is some disagreement, then everything brakes down since there is no way to take a decision.

Democracy might not be perfect, but it is the best system that exists, and it is tested in many other countries, including many other multi-ethnic countries.

[insan]

We hear so many objections about "Majority Rule" because the TCs fear they will not be heard, being only 18%, and so it is seen as a way for the GCs to rule over everyone.

But for most things passing through government legislature, I'll bet the TCs would vote exactly the same way as Mr and Mrs Average Yiannis GCopoulos.

For instance:

Should we spend more on the Health service? Yes or No
Should it be illegal to name a pig Napoleon? Yes or No
Should we improve our Roads? Yes or No
Should we cut Carbon emissions? Yes or No
Should people over 70 be forced to wear false teeth? Yes or No
Should we have heavier fines for animal cruelty? Yes or No
Should we strive to make Cyprus a Global Economy? Yes or No
Should we help the poor and underprivileged? Yes or No
Should we reduce the retirement age to 50? Yes or No

Well I don't know about you, but I voted Yes to 8 out of the 9.

I reckon most people would vote the same as me!

So what's wrong with Majority Rule?

When majority rules in Cyprus; highly probable to occure situations:

1- Objection of anything considered detrimental for the communal interests of TC community would be just a symbolic democracy show. 8 VS 2 = TC loose

2- If TC community wishes comprehensive bi-lateral relations with Turkey as GC community has with Greece; it is obvious that vast majority of GC community would object. Result: 8 VS 2 = TC loose

3- If TC community objects to accept EOKA as a liberation fighters organization... Result: 8 VS 2 = TC loose

I can count many more but even just 3 highly probable to occure situations r sufficient to portray the future of TC community in a united RoC where majority rules.

Countries make Bi-lateral agreements with other countries and not individual states within a country. If that were to be allowed, the next thing you will do, is to give Turkey permission to keep 40,000 troops in the north state. That would be the same thing as having an "Open Marriage". Are you into open marriages, Insan.?

The most important protection for the TC's is to get all their protections into the constitution, where if such bad legistlation is introduced, that it will become unconstitutional, even if it was voted on.

The second protection for the TC's is to maintain 50% power in the upper house with veto power, all democratically, is to adopt my "BBF" plan.!

In a united Cyprus where the legislative and judicial power r distributed 50/50; any irrational and unconstitutional wishes/desires/demands of either communities would be doomed to fail.

I don't believe in any form of a united Cyprus would be viable if vast majority of GC community wouldn't genuinely respect the politically equal status of TC community. In a case where vast majority of GC community respect the politically equal status of TC community; there would be no irrational rivalry between 2 communities and no irrational demands such as asking 40.000 Turkish troops to be stationed in North.

So let alone an "open marriage", I don't want any type of reunification of 2 communities before I am persuaded that vast majority of GC community genuinely considers TC community as a politically equal state partner.

This thread is a very good opportunity to discuss what "majority rule" would case in a united RoC but it seems the thread ruined by going too much off topic.

Insan, majority rule is an integral part of a democratic state. Majority rule is a way to come to some decision.

It would be nice if we could all agree all the time, but that never happens. this is why we need systems that would allow a state to take some decision.

One system is monarchy, where one individual who does not necessarily have the popular support, takes all the decisions. He might take advices from others, but he is the one who decides in the end.

The way that democracy works, is that you have certain rules which are laid down by the constitution, international law, human rights, EU laws in the case of EU members like Cyprus, and a government which is elected by the majority of people takes the decisions within the limits of this framework. The government on most issues tries to keep most people satisfied, so they will have the chance to be elected again.

In the system you support there is no mechanism of taking decisions. You split Cyprus into two groups. When there is some disagreement, then everything brakes down since there is no way to take a decision.

Democracy might not be perfect, but it is the best system that exists, and it is tested in many other countries, including many other multi-ethnic countries.

So what if the current population ratio of GC/TC was 50/50; unification would be impossible because it would be impossible to take any decisions? U make galimatias Piratis. Total nonsense!

[shahmaran]

I dont think I want people like Piratis or Oracle taking decisions for me, Im just fine as I am.