Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

If you believe that if the EU knew Pappas intentions , they would have let in RoC into EU, I suggest you double you medication.

Again, the outcome was determined by a democratic referendum.

Anyone who may have thought otherwise would’ve had A LOT OF EXPLAINING TO DO… Verheugen spat the dummy revealing the Anglo-American scheme but was quickly gotten rid off by the EU!

I enjoyed that immensely!

[bill cobbett]

Worth considering that in large areas of the Anon Scam, where there was no agreement, the gaps were "filled in" by the UN, so it can't be said that the late Tpap (may he rest on peace ) opposed his own settlement in the subsequent referendum.

[Get Real!]

Klerides, the traitor had sold his soul to the devil by reassuring and promising the Anglo-American war criminals that he would convince the GC population to vote in favor of the AP! But the fool, utterly drunk in his self-aggrandizement, also assumed that he would get reelected at the next presidential election and use that authority to manipulate the masses!

However, the treasonous clown failed miserably on both counts thereby sealing his fate and that of his Anglo-American bum chums!

It was an historic day of complete triumph for Cyprus and the total humiliation of her traitors and foreign adversaries…

[insan]

Klerides, the traitor had sold his soul to the devil by reassuring and promising the Anglo-American war criminals that he would convince the GC population to vote in favor of the AP! But the fool, utterly drunk in his self-aggrandizement, also assumed that he would get reelected at the next presidential election and use that authority to manipulate the masses!

However, the treasonous clown failed miserably on both counts thereby sealing his fate and that of his Anglo-American bum chums!

It was an historic day of complete triumph for Cyprus and the total humiliation of her traitors and foreign adversaries…

The combined soul of TPap, Grivas, Makarios and Sampson spoke.

[Bananiot]

The most crucial chapters that are discussed at the talks, as most people know, are governance and property. The rest have been or can easily be agreed upon. YFred said something interesting, that is, when you see the far right worry, something good may be brewing.

The governance issue is debated about the effective participation of the two communities in the central state. The UN resolution seems to be understood differently by the two sides. Of course I completely ignore the far right cry for a unitary state and moving away from the bbf proposal. Talat wants equal representation in all bodies of the central state whereas Christofias seems to want participation which will not be detrimental to decision making. Remember, the UN said, effective participation. How does one translate "effective participation"? In my opinion, equal participation will give the sense of justice to the Turkish Cypriots and we stand to lose nothing by accepting this. It will be a huge step towards enhancing the reconciliation process.

The property issue sees our side wanting to safeguard the right of all refugees to return to their properties while the Turkish Cypriot side has opted for an exchange and compensation policy in order to make sure that there will be a Turkish Cypriot majority in the Turkish Cypriot state. Another issue that seems to be of concern to the TC side is the % of Turkish Cypriot owned land within the TC state.

This is how things stand at the moment. Those of us that seek solution wholeheartedly as the only way to safeguard the existence of our island, can compromise in a spirit of good will for the benefit of our common country. Christofias has been pressed very hard by the deep state in the Greek Cypriot side (oh yes, it exists since day one of the RoC) and he even finds it difficult to reform a stale, anachronistic education system, which has seen our education records plummet to record lows while producing, xenophobic children who are racist and spoilt brats. If Christofias finds the strength to stand up to the reactionaries, you will be surprised how many people will stand by his side.

As I said we should accept the idea that the Turkish Cypriots will participate on an equal basis in all decision making bodies of the Central state. Also, by definition, it is not possible for one community to have a majority of either population or land ownership in both states. The legal owner of every property should have the final say of course and any exchanges or compensations need to be very welcome by all concerned, at the end of the day.

If we cannot agree on the above, partition is the only way left and this will prove detrimental to both Greek and Turkish Cypriots. Thus, eventually what it boils down in the end is what we want, partition or bbf. All other options do not exist and it is a waste of time even arguing about them even as an exercise on paper.

[Piratis]

Serious forumers would be trying to think out the reasons as to why the document was leaked to "Simerini" newspaper, the most nationalist and hard line newspaper which advocates a change of course, other than bizonal, bicommunal, federation. There lies, probably, the secret as to the directions the talks are moving to and those that are beginning to worry in case we agree to a solution. Lyssarides has played this game before. He does not like the talks. He sees nightmares of the Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots living together in peace.

The question is: What kind of peace?

Peace is not the most important thing. There are certain things that worth fighting for, like democracy, freedom and human rights.

One could say we had "peace" during most parts of the Ottoman rule. At that time there were no wars, but Cypriots were divided into Christians and Muslims, with the Muslims having privileges over the second category Christians who had to pay double the taxes and their testimony was not even accepted in courts.

Today you are advocating a similar kind of "peace" where not only we would have to sign the north part of our island to the Turks, but the whole of Cyprus would become the protectorate of Turkey and the Turks would be able to decide what Cyprus can and can't do.

Furthermore a "peace" based on human rights violations, ethnic cleansing and blackmail, is not even going to last. Most people are not masochists like you, and if they are abused and discriminated in that way then sooner than later they will revolt and the bloodshed will resume.

Many countries have passed from the stages of slavery, discrimination, segregation, civil wars etc. Those that solved their problems are those who now adopted democracy and human rights with equality among all citizens with no racist discriminations. That is the only solution that will make Cyprus a normal EU country and will bring a long lasting peace to our island.

So what comes first is freedom to Cyprus from foreigners, democracy and human rights. Peace will be the result. If we are not given our freedom and our human rights then we will continue to fight for what is just, and we will not sign any capitulation "peace" deal.

[Piratis]

The most crucial chapters that are discussed at the talks, as most people know, are governance and property. The rest have been or can easily be agreed upon. YFred said something interesting, that is, when you see the far right worry, something good may be brewing.

The governance issue is debated about the effective participation of the two communities in the central state. The UN resolution seems to be understood differently by the two sides. Of course I completely ignore the far right cry for a unitary state and moving away from the bbf proposal. Talat wants equal representation in all bodies of the central state whereas Christofias seems to want participation which will not be detrimental to decision making. Remember, the UN said, effective participation. How does one translate "effective participation"? In my opinion, equal participation will give the sense of justice to the Turkish Cypriots and we stand to lose nothing by accepting this. It will be a huge step towards enhancing the reconciliation process.

The property issue sees our side wanting to safeguard the right of all refugees to return to their properties while the Turkish Cypriot side has opted for an exchange and compensation policy in order to make sure that there will be a Turkish Cypriot majority in the Turkish Cypriot state. Another issue that seems to be of concern to the TC side is the % of Turkish Cypriot owned land within the TC state.

This is how things stand at the moment. Those of us that seek solution wholeheartedly as the only way to safeguard the existence of our island, can compromise in a spirit of good will for the benefit of our common country. Christofias has been pressed very hard by the deep state in the Greek Cypriot side (oh yes, it exists since day one of the RoC) and he even finds it difficult to reform a stale, anachronistic education system, which has seen our education records plummet to record lows while producing, xenophobic children who are racist and spoilt brats. If Christofias finds the strength to stand up to the reactionaries, you will be surprised how many people will stand by his side.

As I said we should accept the idea that the Turkish Cypriots will participate on an equal basis in all decision making bodies of the Central state. Also, by definition, it is not possible for one community to have a majority of either population or land ownership in both states. The legal owner of every property should have the final say of course and any exchanges or compensations need to be very welcome by all concerned, at the end of the day.

If we cannot agree on the above, partition is the only way left and this will prove detrimental to both Greek and Turkish Cypriots. Thus, eventually what it boils down in the end is what we want, partition or bbf. All other options do not exist and it is a waste of time even arguing about them even as an exercise on paper.

As I have shown already the Turks do not accept a federation, since what they demand is a confederation even more loose than the one of the Swiss confederation.

What you accept is partition in all but the name. You are willing to sign to the Turks 1/3rd of our country (= partition), but also to give them the right to control the whole of Cyprus.

This will not happen. If the Turks insist on partition, then the only partition they can have is the illegal one, where they illegally keep the 37% of our land and suffer the consequences of their illegalities, and we legally keep the 100% of recognition and everything else.

[Bananiot]

Christ, you understood nothing of what I wrote! You just repeat your poem, better than a parrot.

[Piratis]

Christ, you understood nothing of what I wrote! You just repeat your poem, better than a parrot.

Translation: "I can't argue with the truths that you are saying".

Why don't you tell me what exactly I supposedly didn't understand?

Solution is actually solving our problems, giving us back our land, giving us our rights and our freedom. Singing some agreement that would officially give to the Turks the north part of our country and give to them the power to control the whole of the island is not a solution, but a a dissolution. So stop confusing the two. What you propose is not solution. It will not give us back what the Turks occupied in 1974, it will not restore our human rights, it will not bring freedom to Cyprus, it is not a solution. It is only a solution for the Turks who will get to keep what they stole without the consequences.

You make childish "arguments" of the kind: "In my opinion, equal participation will give the sense of justice to the Turkish Cypriots and we stand to lose nothing by accepting this" and you don't realize that this gives to Turkey the power to control the whole of Cyprus. Turkey and "Turkish Cypriots" (will we still call them "Turkish Cypriots" when a big part of this community will be new Settlers from Anatolia?) are partners in the same crime. Turkey uses her weapons to get for the TCs more power and land on our expense, and in return the TCs serve the interests of Turkey in Cyprus. This has always been the case since the Turkish Republic and the TCs were created, and it is very childish from you to believe that the TCs will ever do anything against the wishes of Turkey when they will know full well that the disproportionally large amounts of land and power that they got is due to the brute force and blackmail applied by Turkey.

And of course giving to an 18% ethnic minority the 50% of power is clearly undemocratic, but of course you don't see any problem to this either.

[Paphitis]

In my opinion, equal participation will give the sense of justice to the Turkish Cypriots and we stand to lose nothing by accepting this.

Let's us accept our fate and submit to Ottoman, I mean Turkish rule for another 300 years. Bananiot, just like the Greek Orthodox priesthood will lead the Turks to the halls of power once again for a hansom reward I am sure....

Perhaps Bananiot may become the biggest land owner in all of Cyprus and enjoy his career change from pre school teacher to senior tax officer of the newly found Turkish state..