Cyprus-Forum.com

[paliometoxo]

turks doing much worse to kurds and they have done nothign but be kurdish and speak their own language which turks dont like because its not turkish

[insan]

Macedonia: Top Greek bishop calls for war with Macedonia - [ Bu sayfanın çevirisini yap ]... of the genocidal acts and policies – including torture and forced assimilation targeted against Macedonians during the last 100 years -- by which Greece ...
say-macedonia.blogspot.com/2007/11/top-greek-bishop-calls-for-war-with.html

The Greek Method Of Assimilating And Oppressing The Macedonians ... The Macedonians under Greek occupation were subject to the most brutal form of denationalisation and assimilation. ...
www.topix.com/forum/world/macedonia/TDS87FL0J7RPT9VDU

Ancient Macedonia Macedonia has been inhabited since the Palaeolithic period. ... Macedonians came to dominate the whole of northern Greece, assimilating indigenous peoples ...
www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/A1.html

[christos1]

Greek Torture and Expulsion
Friday, 18 November 2005
Niki Lazaro, inspired by our press release UMDiaspora Sends Letter to Greek President, writes to us and describes first hand the hardship of the state sponsored discrimination he experienced under Greek torture. Niki even today can not visit his birthplace in a country that is part of the European Union.

From: Niki Lazaro
Date: Nov 16, 2005 10:59 AM

To Whom It May Concern,

My grandparents, my mother, father spoke only Macedonian. This is the language that was spoken for hundred and hundreds years and will continue to speak the language as we did all this years, with all the surprising from the Greek government. In 1964/65 I went to the Greek Embassy in Bucharest to ask if I can visit my grandparent before their death. As I mention the name and the village (Zelevo today is called Andartico) I was told to walk out and never ever come back. The Greeks " used to call us 'ta makedonopula" looked at me and said you will never go back/ Ironical the Greeks took me from the city in Romania called Onesti and took me in Bucharest where I finish high school. I grew up in a dictatorial government under the Ceausescu era, I had the opportunity to see the Berlin war, I was 17 years old when I did a trip to Italy looking for a refugee camp, I did end up in 1974 in refugee camp in Austria but today are all gone the truth and the good will win no matter if will take a year, 10 or hundreds. I hope our name to stay as it was Macedonia that's the only name I/we know. Forced to leave at the age of 9 months from home I do feel Macedonian, talk Macedonia and no Greeks will tell me otherwise.

I thank you very much,

Niki

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/49/74/

Slavic Fyrom marlarky. Take a hike.

[insan]

UNHCR | Refworld | World Directory of Minorities and Indigenous ...From 1913, the Greek state has attempted to assimilate the ethnic Macedonian minority of northern Greece. During the Greek civil war there was a mass exodus ...
www.unhcr.org/refworld/topic,463af2212, ... 841,0.html

Attempts of Hellenization of Macedonia Greece followed a policy of assimilating the Macedonian minority and Hellenizing the Macedonian region in northern Greece. The government changed place ...
www.mymacedonia.net/aegean/hellenization.htm

[insan]

Macedonian Indigenous Rights: Macedonian Indigenous People's ...Forced assimilation of indigenous Macedonia began in 1912, when Serbian and Greek rulers declared that henceforth there would be "only Serbs to the North ...
aboriginalrights.suite101.com/article.cfm/macedonian_indigenous_rights

Europe require from Greece respect for Bulgarian Macedonians 26 Aug 2004 ... Thus hundreds of thousands of Macedonian patriots were pushed away and a bloody process started of Greek assimilation of the Macedonian ...
www.macedoniainfo.com/macedonia/foreword.htm

[christos1]

UNHCR | Refworld | World Directory of Minorities and Indigenous ...From 1913, the Greek state has attempted to assimilate the ethnic Macedonian minority of northern Greece. During the Greek civil war there was a mass exodus ...
www.unhcr.org/refworld/topic,463af2212, ... 841,0.html

Attempts of Hellenization of Macedonia Greece followed a policy of assimilating the Macedonian minority and Hellenizing the Macedonian region in northern Greece. The government changed place ...
www.mymacedonia.net/aegean/hellenization.htm

Want to know about Macedonia...here you go:
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/macedo ... 5NF3O5/p12

[paliometoxo]

off topic..

[CopperLine]

This is typical of the mendacious and vexatious postings that Oracle makes on this forum. The title she give the thread is "Turkey torturing and executing civilians .... again' by way of introducing an article which actually reports the investigations of Turkey into abuses from the 1980s and 1990s. So it is NOT a story about torturing and executing civilians again; it is about abuses which had happened before. Then Oracle, by using the generalisation 'Turkey', can't see that it is in fact Turks who are investigating the abuses of other Turks - quite the opposite of Turks torturing and executing civilians.

But to give an accurate title to a thread based on this BBC article would mean that Oracle would have to recognise the complexity and diversity of Turkey and Turkish politics and abandon her racist and fundamentalist charactarisation of Turkey.

This follows the pattern of virtually every contribution by Oracle to this forum : hate-filled, ignorant, self-serving and bilious distortions.

CopperLine can't attack the message so he attacks the messenger .... Again!

The title was a direct quote form the article ... the "Again" signified that here was Turkey in the news again with such atrocities. But don't worry your little head, you have your own interpretations which must be heard!

So who are these people leading this exposure? ... The article is not too clear ... but you seem to have made your mind up. References are made to the ECHR, Activists, and people facing trials, the families of the missing and Kurds themselves ... but no, you have decided it is just "Turks" that are leading this investigation.

Way to go Copper ... you never change!

I've posted many times in this forum on the rights of Kurds and others in Turkey; on the need for democratic politics in Turkey; on the diversity of views in Turkey; on the need for justice in Turkey, and so on. So fuck off Oracle I don't need any lessons from you.

You say that your thread title is a direct quote from the article : it isn't. It is your manipulation.

The article is clear about who is taking up these prosecutions and investigations. It says so in the very first sentence : "A Turkish prosecutor has ordered the digging up of several sites where it is believed the bodies of Kurds killed in the 1990s may have been dumped." Then in the third sentence it refers to human rights lawyers : since only lawyers registered in Turkey can take up cases in Turkey it is reasonable to assume that these are .... Turkish lawyers. And the 70 families who applied to the prosecutor in Silopi - who were they ? Yes, Turkish citizens, applying to a Turkish court, under Turkish law. And what is this about 'ECHR activists' ? It doesn't say or even imply that at all. More invention.

Far from me having made my mind up ... I actually bothered to read the article as posted ... and didn't invent or imagine as is your want.

I didn't shoot the messenger, I criticised the poster for the idiocy of their post.

[insan]

The Paranoia in Greece Has Become Strong

With great dismay I have read the story in your respected publication found at Response to "More Talks on Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia Name Issue".

Greece has been misusing its standing and membership in international bodies to illegally block the inclusion of Macedonia and thus slowing its political and economic progress, which will have long standing negative consequences for the stability of the volatile Balkan region. However Greece has chosen to ignore the consequences of its actions, and even completely economically embargoed Macedonia in 1994-1995 causing huge economic damage, for which it still has paid no reparations.

The paranoia in Greece has become so strong, that in the early 1990s it renamed the University of Thessaloníki to University of Macedonia, then renamed the Thessaloníki Airport "Micra" to "Macedonia Airport" (and has the audacity to object to the renaming of the Skopje Airport), then put Alexander the Great on the 100 drachma coins, the star of Vergina on all the city buses in Thessaloníki, and a big sign above the entrance to the central train station in Thessaloníki saying "Macedonia is Greek". This all happened since 1990. Why the Greek government was not so proud of its 'Macedonian' heritage before is anyone's guess, and the question begs to be asked how come the Greek Province of 'Macedonia' was called 'Province of Northern Greece' until it was renamed in 1988. The most ridiculous thing would probably be that Greece adopted the exact same flag (only with blue background) that it forced Republic of Macedonia to abandon in 1994, as the official flag of the province of Greek Macedonia. So far, the province of Macedonia is the only Greek province with its own separate flag.

One may wonder: why are the Greeks so afraid of their much smaller and poorer neighbor to the north? Is it because Republic of Macedonia might act on the alleged territorial aspirations towards northern Greece? Even the most misinformed military expert would have a good laugh at that comparing the 200,000 strong Greek army to the 8,000-men Macedonian one. Is it because of the identity of Alexander the Great and his compatriots 2,000 years ago? The greatest world historians still cannot agree on this, not to even mention that our modern concepts of nation and nationality not only were non existent 2,000 years ago, but would be completely foreign to the people of that era. Is it that by calling itself Macedonia, the republic somehow 'appropriates' the name of a wider geographic region exclusively for itself? But we have plenty of similar cases, not only in the world, but right in the midst of Europe, like the Republic of Moldova, and the Province of Moldova in Romania, the country of Luxembourg, and the province of Luxembourg in Belgium, and yet this has not been a great concern to these countries. These three reasons are touted by Greek nationalists as the main points for their opposition to the name of the Republic of Macedonia, but they do not ring true even after a superficial examination. Then what is the real reason for the Greek paranoia towards anything (non-Greek) Macedonian?

One doesn't need to venture far into ancient history or scholarly books and discourses to discover the reason. It is enough to look at the Human Rights Watch (HRW - http://www.hrw.org/) publications about Greece, especially the works titled "Denying Ethnic Identity: The Macedonians of Greece" and "Free Speech on Trial: Government Stifles Dissent on Macedonia" both of which can be found at HRW's publications page at http://hrw.org/doc/?t=europe_pub&c=greece . Ever since Greece received the southern portion of Macedonia in 1913 as war spoils after the Balkan Wars, it has waged a consistent policy of forced assimilation, molestation, and exile of the ethnic Macedonians in Greek Macedonia, sometimes masked as 'population exchanges', but most of the time just plain ethnic harassment, bordering on ethnic cleansing. After the 1949 Greek Civil War, even more ethnic Macedonians were exiled because they were fighting on the wrong side of the conflict. In 1982, a discriminatory reconciliation law was passed in Greece, which allowed the return only of communist fighters who were Greeks 'by origin', and effectively disallowed the return of ethnic Macedonians to Greece and reinstatement of their properties, confiscated by the Greek government in 1949.

It is this that the Hellenic Republic sees as the greatest danger from recognition of the Republic of Macedonia. It is the fact that Greece is the only European country that does not recognize any ethnic minorities within its borders, but claims that everybody is Greek, thus depriving the hundreds of thousands ethnic Macedonians (and other minorities) of education in their own language, preserving their national culture, customs and language under the threat of beatings, imprisonment, and other harassments by Greek officials. Numerous recent cases have been documented in detail by the organization of the ethnic Macedonians in Greece at their website http://florina.org/ including their own very thorny way to legal existence, after beatings, false trials and property destructions, which at the end, required a judgment from the European Court of Justice against the Greek government to allow the organization to exist.

Republic of Macedonia is recognized by its constitutional name by 120 countries so far, and the number is constantly growing. This is a clear signal to all nationalists, inside and outside of governments that it is not for the politicians to decide whose history is more right, and what happened 2000 years ago, but that they should concentrate on the present, and protect the basic human rights of self-determination and pursuit of happiness of all people living today.

Borce Georgevski,
Seattle, WA

[christos1]

The Paranoia in Greece Has Become Strong

You feel the need to post this Slavic Fyrom rubbish do you? Well here are some University links for you to get a real education on who Macedonians really were and are. And btw, thanks for keeping the thread up you simpleton.


http://fathom.lib.uchicago.edu/1/777777122300/

http://www.personal.psu.edu/ldl137/web_ ... eople.html

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook07.html

http://www.usask.ca/antiquities/coins/macedonia.html

http://www.britac.ac.uk/pubs/cat/pba104.cfm

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/aegean/


And while your at it. Why dont you visit a museum near you. perhaps you may want to take a look at one of these:

http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/art ... tobj=15267

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/angk/hd_angk.htm

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/haht/ho_2002.66.htm

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/on ... stone.aspx

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/activite/detai ... mLocale=en

http://hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_7_1_1b.html