Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Though u r not a double-faced priest like him.

Prideful Heads. When the constitution was drawn up, Makarios hailed it as a victory. "We have won!" he cried to the delirious crowd massed outside his palace. "Cyprus is free. Celebrate, my brethren, and raise your heads high with pride." He promised that Cyprus would now become a strong link between Greece and Turkey and a factor of stability in the Middle East. It might well have if Makarios had not decided that the constitution was unworkable because it conflicted "with internationally accepted democratic principles and creates sources of friction between Greek and Turkish Cypriots." Most observers agree that the constitution is an unwieldy and difficult document. In an effort to safeguard the interests of the Turkish community, who make up 20% of the population, the constitution requires that 40% of the army, 30% of the civil service, and 30% of the police be drawn from Turkish Cypriots. Both the President and the Vice President have the right of veto over certain laws created by the House of Representatives and certain decisions of the Council of Ministers. The result is a series of deadlocks. For example, no Cypriot army has emerged because Makarios wants the units to be completely integrated while Turkish Cypriot Vice President Dr. Fazil Kuchuk holds out for separate Greek and Turkish Cypriot detachments.

Kuchuk complains that Makarios "never intended or even tried to implement the constitution. I told him it was like rejecting a new car before even trying it out. I urged him every day to press the starter and try it.

He never tried. He killed the constitution as he'd always planned to do. He only signed it to get rid of the British." Makarios smilingly denies Kuchuk's indictment, but does concede that he always had a number of "objections and strong misgivings" about the constitution he signed in 1959. Last November he sent to all interested parties 13 proposals for amending the constitution. Since the amendments would obviously diminish the influence of Turkish Cypriots, the government of Turkey at once rejected them, and both factions on the island took out their guns, oiled and cleaned them, and began the shooting that the U.N. is now trying to stop.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... -2,00.html

If anything, this article proves that Makarios was way ahead of his time and in full support of a democratic one-nation-one-people philosophy… it’s just a shame TCs were unable to grasp democracy back then, and sadly just as incapable to grasp it today 50 years later.

[boulio]

Its just amazing that i believe that if the t/c stayed within the republic and amended to one man one vote that they would be kingmakers in todays cypriot politics.I was looking at whats going on in Israel now with the lieberman group holding the balance of who forms the next govt.the t/c if they voted along ethnic lines would hold a 15-20% voting block.very powerful.

Look in bulgaria were turks make up under 10%:

The Bulgarian Turks take part in the country's political life. Back in the end of 1984 an underground organization called «National Liberation Movement of the Turks in Bulgaria» was formed in Bulgaria which headed the Turkish community's antigovernmental movement. On January 4, 1990 the activists of the movement registered an organization with the legal name «Movement for Rights and Freedom» (MRF) (in Bulgarian: Движение за права и свободи: in Turkish: Hak ve Özgürlükler Hareketi) in the Bulgarian city of Varna. At the moment of registration it had 33 members, at present, according to the organization's website, 68 thousand members plus 24 thousand in the organization's youth wing [36]. As a result of elections held in 2001 and 2005, the MRF was included in the coalition government. At the parliamentary elections held on June 17, 2001, the MRF got 21 deputy mandates by 7.45% of votes. In the parliament, there was also an independent Turkish deputy, Osman Ahmed Oktay. The Turkish party formed a coalition government in a non-Turkic country. Mehmet Dikmen, Minister of Agriculture, Natural Resources and Environment represented the MRF. Filiz Huseynova, presently working at the European Parliament, held the post of the State Minister for minorities. Earlier she was the Deputy Mayor on humanitarian issues in her native town Silistra; she was appointed Minister on July 17, 2003. On June 25, 2005 the parliamentary elections were held. The party's success was very impressive: it won 14.07% of the votes, 34 MRF members entered the parliament; two of them were Bulgarians. A new coalition was formed which at this time consisted of three parties: the Bulgarian Socialist Party, «National Movement of Simeon II» and the MRF. In the budget of 2008, MRF directed a large parts of the subsidies for agriculture to tobacco growers (which are predominantly Turks, Pomaks, and Romani) leaving staple crops, like wheat, without subsidies for buying the seed for sowing. This evoked protests by farmers in the regions of Vratsa, Knezha, and Dobrudzha. During the May 2007 Bulgarian European Parliament elections the Movement for Rights and Freedom (MRF) gained 20,26% of the vote and currently has 3 MEPs in the European Parliament. Another political party founded in 1998 and representing a smaller fraction of the Turkish minority in Bulgaria is the «National Movement for Rights and Freedoms» (NMRF) (offshoot from MRF). The party is headed by Güner Tahir and has on several occasions formed an alliance with the MRF during nationwide local elections.[81] During the 1999 local elections the NMRF gained some 80 000 votes. [82]

[insan]

What u were expecting from us? Accepting to be a mere muslim minority in Cyprus and join Enosis struggle of Hellenes?

One thing I NEVER do is allow my opponent to jump to other areas like a rabbit on heat…

The Turkish Cypriots DENOUNCED and RENOUNCED the 1960 constitution by abandoning ALL their posts never to return, waged a war against it alongside Turkey, and subsequently proclaimed a new constitution illegally. In fact, you couldn’t renounce a constitution any more than what the TCs had done, so denying this fact is silly… just as silly as a TC arguing about the numbers of NG troops being “illegal”!

Bro, Makarios proposed 13 amendments with a sole aim to degrade TCs into minority status. TCs and Turkey rejected it and inter-commnal violence broke-out. From that moment, there's no meaning for TCs to stay in parliament anymore. Why should they stay? To discuss the minority rights? It is obvious that the political oppression of Enosists towards TCs caused TCs to abandon all their posts and create enclaves as a defence point for themselves. How much the enosists oppressed TCs that much the TCs advanced their Taksim project. Like it or not, this is the struggle of 2 politically distinct beliefs of 2 politically distinct communities.

When u base something on 60s treaties and constitution to argue whether it is legal or illegal(As how it fits u); I too have the same right to base my arguments on the same constitution and treaties how it fits me. It was part of the Akritas plan to create an international impression that TCs abandoned all their posts in RoC. GC leadership succeeded to create such an impression with help of all anti-Turks. How UN created an Israel state, created a so-called GC state in Cyprus. It's time for UN to accept the creation of a TC state. Afterwards 60s till early 90s it was impossible for US to consent a seperate TC state in North because of the Soviet factor and fragile balance of powers in Nato alliance. Now times has changed.

[insan]

Though u r not a double-faced priest like him.

Prideful Heads. When the constitution was drawn up, Makarios hailed it as a victory. "We have won!" he cried to the delirious crowd massed outside his palace. "Cyprus is free. Celebrate, my brethren, and raise your heads high with pride." He promised that Cyprus would now become a strong link between Greece and Turkey and a factor of stability in the Middle East. It might well have if Makarios had not decided that the constitution was unworkable because it conflicted "with internationally accepted democratic principles and creates sources of friction between Greek and Turkish Cypriots." Most observers agree that the constitution is an unwieldy and difficult document. In an effort to safeguard the interests of the Turkish community, who make up 20% of the population, the constitution requires that 40% of the army, 30% of the civil service, and 30% of the police be drawn from Turkish Cypriots. Both the President and the Vice President have the right of veto over certain laws created by the House of Representatives and certain decisions of the Council of Ministers. The result is a series of deadlocks. For example, no Cypriot army has emerged because Makarios wants the units to be completely integrated while Turkish Cypriot Vice President Dr. Fazil Kuchuk holds out for separate Greek and Turkish Cypriot detachments.

Kuchuk complains that Makarios "never intended or even tried to implement the constitution. I told him it was like rejecting a new car before even trying it out. I urged him every day to press the starter and try it.

He never tried. He killed the constitution as he'd always planned to do. He only signed it to get rid of the British." Makarios smilingly denies Kuchuk's indictment, but does concede that he always had a number of "objections and strong misgivings" about the constitution he signed in 1959. Last November he sent to all interested parties 13 proposals for amending the constitution. Since the amendments would obviously diminish the influence of Turkish Cypriots, the government of Turkey at once rejected them, and both factions on the island took out their guns, oiled and cleaned them, and began the shooting that the U.N. is now trying to stop.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... -2,00.html

If anything, this article proves that Makarios was way ahead of his time and in full support of a democratic one-nation-one-people philosophy… it’s just a shame TCs were unable to grasp democracy back then, and sadly just as incapable to grasp it today 50 years later.

Enosists and Hellenists led "democracy" Clap! Clap! Clap! As if TCs weren't aware what's really going on behind the "democracy" mask.

[Get Real!]

What u were expecting from us? Accepting to be a mere muslim minority in Cyprus and join Enosis struggle of Hellenes?

One thing I NEVER do is allow my opponent to jump to other areas like a rabbit on heat…

The Turkish Cypriots DENOUNCED and RENOUNCED the 1960 constitution by abandoning ALL their posts never to return, waged a war against it alongside Turkey, and subsequently proclaimed a new constitution illegally. In fact, you couldn’t renounce a constitution any more than what the TCs had done, so denying this fact is silly… just as silly as a TC arguing about the numbers of NG troops being “illegal”!

Bro, Makarios proposed 13 amendments with a sole aim to degrade TCs into minority status. TCs and Turkey rejected it and inter-commnal violence broke-out. From that moment, there's no meaning for TCs to stay in parliament anymore. Why should they stay? To discuss the minority rights? It is obvious that the political oppression of Enosists towards TCs caused TCs to abandon all their posts and create enclaves as a defence point for themselves. How much the enosists oppressed TCs that much the TCs advanced their Taksim project. Like it or not, this is the struggle of 2 politically distinct beliefs of 2 politically distinct communities.

When u base something on 60s treaties and constitution to argue whether it is legal or illegal(As how it fits u); I too have the same right to base my arguments on the same constitution and treaties how it fits me. It was part of the Akritas plan to create an international impression that TCs abandoned all their posts in RoC. GC leadership succeeded to create such an impression with help of all anti-Turks. How UN created an Israel state, created a so-called GC state in Cyprus. It's time for UN to accept the creation of a TC state. Afterwards 60s till early 90s it was impossible for US to consent a seperate TC state in North because of the Soviet factor and fragile balance of powers in Nato alliance. Now times has changed.

Irrelevant hogwash!

You can jump around like a rabbit on heat with Y-Fronts, G-Strings, Milt-Strings, and similar tossings but not with GR… you have been proven wrong so this discussion is now over.

[insan]

What u were expecting from us? Accepting to be a mere muslim minority in Cyprus and join Enosis struggle of Hellenes?

One thing I NEVER do is allow my opponent to jump to other areas like a rabbit on heat…

The Turkish Cypriots DENOUNCED and RENOUNCED the 1960 constitution by abandoning ALL their posts never to return, waged a war against it alongside Turkey, and subsequently proclaimed a new constitution illegally. In fact, you couldn’t renounce a constitution any more than what the TCs had done, so denying this fact is silly… just as silly as a TC arguing about the numbers of NG troops being “illegal”!

Bro, Makarios proposed 13 amendments with a sole aim to degrade TCs into minority status. TCs and Turkey rejected it and inter-commnal violence broke-out. From that moment, there's no meaning for TCs to stay in parliament anymore. Why should they stay? To discuss the minority rights? It is obvious that the political oppression of Enosists towards TCs caused TCs to abandon all their posts and create enclaves as a defence point for themselves. How much the enosists oppressed TCs that much the TCs advanced their Taksim project. Like it or not, this is the struggle of 2 politically distinct beliefs of 2 politically distinct communities.

When u base something on 60s treaties and constitution to argue whether it is legal or illegal(As how it fits u); I too have the same right to base my arguments on the same constitution and treaties how it fits me. It was part of the Akritas plan to create an international impression that TCs abandoned all their posts in RoC. GC leadership succeeded to create such an impression with help of all anti-Turks. How UN created an Israel state, created a so-called GC state in Cyprus. It's time for UN to accept the creation of a TC state. Afterwards 60s till early 90s it was impossible for US to consent a seperate TC state in North because of the Soviet factor and fragile balance of powers in Nato alliance. Now times has changed.

Irrelevant hogwash!

You can jump around like a rabbit on heat with Y-Fronts, G-Strings, Milt-Strings, and similar tossings but not with GR… you have been proven wrong so this discussion is now over.

Unilateral self-decisions r not binding for opposing persons and parties as it has been proven in Cyprus, Palestinia, East Timor, Macedonia, Kosova and all other places of planet earth.

[Kikapu]

What u were expecting from us? Accepting to be a mere muslim minority in Cyprus and join Enosis struggle of Hellenes?

One thing I NEVER do is allow my opponent to jump to other areas like a rabbit on heat…

The Turkish Cypriots DENOUNCED and RENOUNCED the 1960 constitution by abandoning ALL their posts never to return, waged a war against it alongside Turkey, and subsequently proclaimed a new constitution illegally. In fact, you couldn’t renounce a constitution any more than what the TCs had done, so denying this fact is silly… just as silly as a TC arguing about the numbers of NG troops being “illegal”!

Bro, Makarios proposed 13 amendments with a sole aim to degrade TCs into minority status. TCs and Turkey rejected it and inter-commnal violence broke-out. From that moment, there's no meaning for TCs to stay in parliament anymore. Why should they stay? To discuss the minority rights? It is obvious that the political oppression of Enosists towards TCs caused TCs to abandon all their posts and create enclaves as a defence point for themselves. How much the enosists oppressed TCs that much the TCs advanced their Taksim project. Like it or not, this is the struggle of 2 politically distinct beliefs of 2 politically distinct communities.

When u base something on 60s treaties and constitution to argue whether it is legal or illegal(As how it fits u); I too have the same right to base my arguments on the same constitution and treaties how it fits me. It was part of the Akritas plan to create an international impression that TCs abandoned all their posts in RoC. GC leadership succeeded to create such an impression with help of all anti-Turks. How UN created an Israel state, created a so-called GC state in Cyprus. It's time for UN to accept the creation of a TC state. Afterwards 60s till early 90s it was impossible for US to consent a seperate TC state in North because of the Soviet factor and fragile balance of powers in Nato alliance. Now times has changed.

Well, it's 2009, so what are the Americans waiting for and have not consented to a independent TC state in the north.? Bush was the best chance the TC's had, but he never came through. The UN, well, you need to get pass the 5 permanent members and Russia is one of them. Then as of 2004, you now also have the EU factor. Besides, there is no Greek state in Cyprus. As far as the world is concerned, the Republic of Cyprus lives on with or without the TC's who refuse to become part of it up to this point since 1963. Once again, since 2004, things have changed a great deal which leaves the TC's with very few options of ever getting a independent state of their own in Cyprus without the GC's consent. That's the reality of today or you can wait for another Right wing US president to take office after 16 years to try to get a recognition, which will do very little to the TC's by the way, if the EU will not go along, and they will not since Cyprus is already a member. 2004 AP was your best chance to turn the tide into the TC's favour, but that "coup" was averted by the 76% GC's. What chances do you have now for a independent TC state.? I would say ZERO to NONE. The best option for the TC's would be a Federal state within the "new" RoC. Anything else, is purely whistling Dixie in the wind.!

[insan]

What u were expecting from us? Accepting to be a mere muslim minority in Cyprus and join Enosis struggle of Hellenes?

One thing I NEVER do is allow my opponent to jump to other areas like a rabbit on heat…

The Turkish Cypriots DENOUNCED and RENOUNCED the 1960 constitution by abandoning ALL their posts never to return, waged a war against it alongside Turkey, and subsequently proclaimed a new constitution illegally. In fact, you couldn’t renounce a constitution any more than what the TCs had done, so denying this fact is silly… just as silly as a TC arguing about the numbers of NG troops being “illegal”!

Bro, Makarios proposed 13 amendments with a sole aim to degrade TCs into minority status. TCs and Turkey rejected it and inter-commnal violence broke-out. From that moment, there's no meaning for TCs to stay in parliament anymore. Why should they stay? To discuss the minority rights? It is obvious that the political oppression of Enosists towards TCs caused TCs to abandon all their posts and create enclaves as a defence point for themselves. How much the enosists oppressed TCs that much the TCs advanced their Taksim project. Like it or not, this is the struggle of 2 politically distinct beliefs of 2 politically distinct communities.

When u base something on 60s treaties and constitution to argue whether it is legal or illegal(As how it fits u); I too have the same right to base my arguments on the same constitution and treaties how it fits me. It was part of the Akritas plan to create an international impression that TCs abandoned all their posts in RoC. GC leadership succeeded to create such an impression with help of all anti-Turks. How UN created an Israel state, created a so-called GC state in Cyprus. It's time for UN to accept the creation of a TC state. Afterwards 60s till early 90s it was impossible for US to consent a seperate TC state in North because of the Soviet factor and fragile balance of powers in Nato alliance. Now times has changed.

Well, it's 2009, so what are the Americans waiting for and have not consented to a independent TC state in the north.? Bush was the best chance the TC's had, but he never came through. The UN, well, you need to get pass the 5 permanent members and Russia is one of them. Then as of 2004, you now also have the EU factor. Besides, there is no Greek state in Cyprus. As far as the world is concerned, the Republic of Cyprus lives on with or without the TC's who refuse to become part of it up to this point since 1963. Once again, since 2004, things have changed a great deal which leaves the TC's with very few options of ever getting a independent state of their own in Cyprus without the GC's consent. That's the reality of today or you can wait for another Right wing US president to take office after 16 years to try to get a recognition, which will do very little to the TC's by the way, if the EU will not go along, and they will not since Cyprus is already a member. 2004 AP was your best chance to turn the tide into the TC's favour, but that "coup" was averted by the 76% GC's. What chances do you have now for a independent TC state.? I would say ZERO to NONE. The best option for the TC's would be a Federal state within the "new" RoC. Anything else, is purely whistling Dixie in the wind.!

They began with some Balkan countries... One by one... Siga siga.. it runs smothly in...

[christos1]

We can do a double act together! Forget about Oracle.

I’m getting pretty sick and tired of your recurring sexual insinuations to female forum members in the CyProb. If you can’t counter their posts then simply GET OFF and let someone else have a go.

I usually don't agree with your postings GR but i respect your views and you are spot on with your comment above.

Let me just make this quick cause i just ate some Heinz red beans and it didn't go down to well. So, let me just apologize for anyspelling/grammatical errors below as will be writing this quite quickly.

From reading the comments in this forum, the Turks as well as Banionet and Milti all appear to be sexist. What is with this know your role, woman. attitude? ..its like the female contributors of this forum have insulted the great Sultan or something.

But how do you explain Milti and Banionet's backward behavior? Well, those two old timers recall how it was in the Ottoman Empire, not realizing that times have changed, they still behave in the same manner. Ohh, please Mr. Sultan, i beg for your friendship and your approval, may i not be taxed so high? I will have my wife cook you some pilav. why I will call my self a Turk and do your bidding.

Guys, times have changed and people should not have to experience the sexist behavior that is clearly evident in this forum. So, let me just....hold on to that thought and i will get back ito this forum in... ohh frk this.

[miltiades]

We can do a double act together! Forget about Oracle.

I’m getting pretty sick and tired of your recurring sexual insinuations to female forum members in the CyProb. If you can’t counter their posts then simply GET OFF and let someone else have a go.

I usually don't agree with your postings GR but i respect your views and you are spot on with your comment above.

Let me just make this quick cause i just ate some Heinz red beans and it didn't go down to well. So, let me just apologize for anyspelling/grammatical errors below as will be writing this quite quickly.

From reading the comments in this forum, the Turks as well as Banionet and Milti all appear to be sexist. What is with this know your role, woman. attitude? ..its like the female contributors of this forum have insulted the great Sultan or something.

But how do you explain Milti and Banionet's backward behavior? Well, those two old timers recall how it was in the Ottoman Empire, not realizing that times have changed, they still behave in the same manner. Ohh, please Mr. Sultan, i beg for your friendship and your approval, may i not be taxed so high? I will have my wife cook you some pilav. why I will call my self a Turk and do your bidding.

Guys, times have changed and people should not have to experience the sexist behavior that is clearly evident in this forum. So, let me just....hold on to that thought and i will get back ito this forum in... ohh frk this.

What a load of absolute crap from a little boy , get back to your baked beans boy , quick , come back when you have cleansed your self from all the farts in your body !!