Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Ok fellas let's make an assessment of this thread. One GC came in support of Miltiades: Notorious Resident Traitor of the CF Boutaniot. I was proved right once again; just two traitors in here. ...yes almost I forgot several mainland turks and other TC partionist of the likes of brainsnomore, fartaway and wrongviewpoint support you M. Well done!

Hei , koroido , what in your opinion , not that the opinion of a touvlo matters , makes one a traitor. It's a very serious accusation , can you provide a link , let us say a post of mine where treasonous comments were made.
Put up or shut up touvlo .

[Piratis]

Yes Piratis and the Turkish Cypriots would democratically be citizens of another nation today, for one man one vote for you has been reduced to a tool of subversion of the minority to the majority. You have absolutely no idea how this world is run and your infant rantlings that we were dealt a bad hand by the world's powers because they did not giving us the choice to decide on our future shows clearly that you hardly understand the mechanics of world politics. Your naive idea that the world turns around on the axis of the global values of virtue, morality and principles is made worst by our ground record which shows that the majority which we were for 3 years between 1960-1963, saw us taking sick people from hospital beds and execute them. Of course you will tell me that we murdered 100's rather than the 1000's of us murdered by the Turks, Ottomans etc, but this is your predicament.

Perhaps you can now put some names on the murderers, since by now you have come to admit that we soiled our hands with innocent blood. Can you do this for us? Who did the killings and for what reason?

The reason was that in Cyprus a true democracy, and many other freedoms were not allowed and what we had was an anomalous situation, not a normal democratic country. If something similar or even worst is forced again, then the result will be again the same: more bloodshed and problems.

If what you are trying to say is that we are no angels, of course we are not. We are normal people. Turks killed 1000s of us, and we killed some 100s of them. If it was the case that only them were killing us, and we never retaliated, it would mean that we are Angels - each one of us a Jesus Christ - sorry to disappoint you, but we are not.

We know from our history and from the history of other countries what is right and what is wrong, and what works and what doesn't. Many countries passed from civil wars, slavery, segregation and things far worst than what we had in Cyprus, and how they all solved most of their problems (those that solved them) was always in the same way: Democracy, equality of citizens and human rights. This is what works.

People are all the same. Only a racist would claim otherwise. What changes is the situation. Put people in an anomalous, undemocratic, Apartheid kind of situation and big problems and conflicts will arise. Put the people in a democratic environment were human rights are protected, and any problems (which will always exist) will be minimized.

[lovernomore]

Ok fellas let's make an assessment of this thread. One GC came in support of Miltiades: Notorious Resident Traitor of the CF Boutaniot. I was proved right once again; just two traitors in here. ...yes almost I forgot several mainland turks and other TC partionist of the likes of brainsnomore, fartaway and wrongviewpoint support you M. Well done!

Hei , koroido , what in your opinion , not that the opinion of a touvlo matters , makes one a traitor. It's a very serious accusation , can you provide a link , let us say a post of mine where treasonous comments were made.
Put up or shut up touvlo .

Maybe I shuldnt be involved but please let me tell you Mr Miltiades, you are not a traitor. You and Mr Bananiot are decent gentelmen and you respeckt your fellowe man and you get respect back.

With you Sir and same people like you I have only pleausre to be in same neighbour. You have my and my familiy full respect Mr Miltiades.

[Piratis]

Ok fellas let's make an assessment of this thread. One GC came in support of Miltiades: Notorious Resident Traitor of the CF Boutaniot. I was proved right once again; just two traitors in here. ...yes almost I forgot several mainland turks and other TC partionist of the likes of brainsnomore, fartaway and wrongviewpoint support you M. Well done!

Count me in as well..and who do you have on your side ? More than that what kind of producing comment have you made on the thread instead of just crying around like a child!! I guess you did not like TCs helping GCs frineds to sweep out the fasicsts..did you ?

Ierini-Baris, fascists, like the Nazis, are those who divide people into races and invade sovereign countries. If you disagree with somebody this doesn't mean he is "fascist".

You are being racist by trying to imply that everybody who is Greek and uses the Greek flag must be a "fascist". If it wasn't for the fascists and imperialists in UK and Turkey, and Cypriots were allowed to decide the destiny of their own island in a democratic and peaceful way then Cyprus would be part of the Greek Republic along with the other Greek islands.

But in any case, you are free to think of others in any way you want. And you are free to vote for whomever you want. Personally I am glad that those TCs voted in democratic elections and that with your votes those that you supported won.

In a united Cyprus, and with a real democracy, one person - one vote with no racist discriminations, an AKEL/CTP alliance could win every election (unless the center and right parties of the two communities can cooperate as well, which seems less likely)

So why you want to force in Cyprus fascist racist discriminations and you do not accept equality of citizens and a true democracy?

You keep saying the same thing. One person one vote system could be installed to the federal goverment after 20-25 years when people are more mature do not feel angry to anyone that prevented them from joining to Greece or Turkey...I think the same for the freedom of movement it should be limited for first 15-20 years and free after that... We need some time to adapt to the situation otherwise would cause chaos

I don't have problem with specific and defined transitional periods, as long as the final solution is democracy, human rights, equality of citizens and no kind of racist discriminations. But this is not the aim of the Turkish side. Their aim is to permanently Turkify the north part of Cyprus, and to permanently impose an undemocratic system that would benefit them on the expense of every other Cypriot.

[lovernomore]

Yes Piratis and the Turkish Cypriots would democratically be citizens of another nation today, for one man one vote for you has been reduced to a tool of subversion of the minority to the majority. You have absolutely no idea how this world is run and your infant rantlings that we were dealt a bad hand by the world's powers because they did not giving us the choice to decide on our future shows clearly that you hardly understand the mechanics of world politics. Your naive idea that the world turns around on the axis of the global values of virtue, morality and principles is made worst by our ground record which shows that the majority which we were for 3 years between 1960-1963, saw us taking sick people from hospital beds and execute them. Of course you will tell me that we murdered 100's rather than the 1000's of us murdered by the Turks, Ottomans etc, but this is your predicament.

Perhaps you can now put some names on the murderers, since by now you have come to admit that we soiled our hands with innocent blood. Can you do this for us? Who did the killings and for what reason?

The reason was that in Cyprus a true democracy, and many other freedoms were not allowed and what we had was an anomalous situation, not a normal democratic country. If something similar or even worst is forced again, then the result will be again the same: more bloodshed and problems.

If what you are trying to say is that we are no angels, of course we are not. We are normal people. Turks killed 1000s of us, and we killed some 100s of them. If it was the case that only them were killing us, and we never retaliated, it would mean that we are Angels - each one of us a Jesus Christ - sorry to disappoint you, but we are not.

We know from our history and from the history of other countries what is right and what is wrong, and what works and what doesn't. Many countries passed from civil wars, slavery, segregation and things far worst than what we had in Cyprus, and how they all solved most of their problems (those that solved them) was always in the same way: Democracy, equality of citizens and human rights. This is what works.

People are all the same. Only a racist would claim otherwise. What changes is the situation. Put people in an anomalous, undemocratic, Apartheid kind of situation and big problems and conflicts will arise. Put the people in a democratic environment were human rights are protected, and any problems (which will always exist) will be minimized.

It is peole like you and GR, Kurupetos and Kifeas who are traitors. You are doin everything in you power to not bring a peaceful soution to the island. All you say is "balanse of power" and blah blah blah. This is not in the best interst of Cyprus or Cypriots. For me that make youa traiotor.

[Piratis]

Yes Piratis and the Turkish Cypriots would democratically be citizens of another nation today, for one man one vote for you has been reduced to a tool of subversion of the minority to the majority. You have absolutely no idea how this world is run and your infant rantlings that we were dealt a bad hand by the world's powers because they did not giving us the choice to decide on our future shows clearly that you hardly understand the mechanics of world politics. Your naive idea that the world turns around on the axis of the global values of virtue, morality and principles is made worst by our ground record which shows that the majority which we were for 3 years between 1960-1963, saw us taking sick people from hospital beds and execute them. Of course you will tell me that we murdered 100's rather than the 1000's of us murdered by the Turks, Ottomans etc, but this is your predicament.

Perhaps you can now put some names on the murderers, since by now you have come to admit that we soiled our hands with innocent blood. Can you do this for us? Who did the killings and for what reason?

The reason was that in Cyprus a true democracy, and many other freedoms were not allowed and what we had was an anomalous situation, not a normal democratic country. If something similar or even worst is forced again, then the result will be again the same: more bloodshed and problems.

If what you are trying to say is that we are no angels, of course we are not. We are normal people. Turks killed 1000s of us, and we killed some 100s of them. If it was the case that only them were killing us, and we never retaliated, it would mean that we are Angels - each one of us a Jesus Christ - sorry to disappoint you, but we are not.

We know from our history and from the history of other countries what is right and what is wrong, and what works and what doesn't. Many countries passed from civil wars, slavery, segregation and things far worst than what we had in Cyprus, and how they all solved most of their problems (those that solved them) was always in the same way: Democracy, equality of citizens and human rights. This is what works.

People are all the same. Only a racist would claim otherwise. What changes is the situation. Put people in an anomalous, undemocratic, Apartheid kind of situation and big problems and conflicts will arise. Put the people in a democratic environment were human rights are protected, and any problems (which will always exist) will be minimized.

It is peole like you and GR, Kurupetos and Kifeas who are traitors. You are doin everything in you power to not bring a peaceful soution to the island. All you say is "balanse of power" and blah blah blah. This is not in the best interst of Cyprus or Cypriots. For me that make youa traiotor.

lovernomore, I hope you noticed that I usually ignore your nonsense. What you wrote is not even remotely related with anything that I said above.

In any case, what I will tell you is that peace is not the most important thing. If that was the case then nobody would fight against the Nazis, the fascists, against slavery and against foreign invaders. There are many things that worth fighting for, and this is what we do.

We don't want just a "peaceful solution", we want a just solution that will bring to Cyprus democracy and human rights and equality among people, and these are the things which will also bring a long lasting peace, as opposed to some fragile peace deal that will be based on ethnic cleansing and human rights violations, and which will sooner than later collapse.

[miltiades]

Let us not carried away with generalizations and character assassinations.
Starting with Piratis , a man I have never met but have gotten to know him from his regular postings.
There are some areas that I do not necessarily agree with his stance and I'm sure there are some areas that he also does not agree with my stance. Piratis sustains his belief which many of us share that democracy and one man one vote is what is needed in Cyprus where all citizens are equal under the law and everyone's human rights are sacred.
I would be very naive to consider an alternative form of "democracy" than one man one vote.
My commitment too to one man one vote is strengthened by my unshakable conviction that there are no minorities or majorities in Cyprus but only Cypriots. I understand of course that such a conviction might run contrary to what a respectable percentage of our people's aspirations are.
I agree in the removal of the Turkish occupying troops within the framework of a negotiated settlement , any other option would not be accepted by Turkey or indeed the substantial numbers of T/Cs and suggestions made on this forum by some that war IS the only way are purely inane .
Apportioning of blame as to who did what and who suffered the most only serves to protract the stalemate and the status quo .
Neither have I met Kifeas , we spoke on the phone twice when I was in Cyprus .
I have never been insulted by Kifeas , he has never called me a traitor , he knows of my convictions and I do not recollect him ever challenging my views. All of us have our own views , provided such views are palatable and civilized then such views are essential in debating.
I do not for one second think that either Piratis or Kifeas would consider that the T/Cs do not belong or should not be in Cyprus after all I supported this reality hundreds of times I do nor ever recall a challenge.
Both know my position on the question of recognition of the "trnc" , both also know that I have been involved in activities that are for the benefit of a small section of our T/C compatriots , neither has ever challenged my motives ,both are also aware that I opposed the AP , neither again has challenged my reasons for doing so..
I believe that unless we put the past behind us , Piratis please take note , we shall never reach the promised land , the unification of our island with all foreign troops removed and all citizens equal .

[bill cobbett]

I don't have problem with specific and defined transitional periods, as long as the final solution is democracy, human rights, equality of citizens and no kind of racist discriminations. But this is not the aim of the Turkish side. Their aim is to permanently Turkify the north part of Cyprus, and to permanently impose an undemocratic system that would benefit them on the expense of every other Cypriot.

May I just insist that the system of equality of the citizenry in the democratic systems enjoyed by the good people of Paris, Berlin, London etc is the only acceptable one in CY.

Why should the majority CY population be treated as Second Class EU Citizens?

Second Class in the EU and second class in their own country is how this Bipedal, Bicycle, Partition in all but name Bxxxcks sees them.

(er... hold the transitional bit please P, democracy from day 0 please)

[lovernomore]

Yes Piratis and the Turkish Cypriots would democratically be citizens of another nation today, for one man one vote for you has been reduced to a tool of subversion of the minority to the majority. You have absolutely no idea how this world is run and your infant rantlings that we were dealt a bad hand by the world's powers because they did not giving us the choice to decide on our future shows clearly that you hardly understand the mechanics of world politics. Your naive idea that the world turns around on the axis of the global values of virtue, morality and principles is made worst by our ground record which shows that the majority which we were for 3 years between 1960-1963, saw us taking sick people from hospital beds and execute them. Of course you will tell me that we murdered 100's rather than the 1000's of us murdered by the Turks, Ottomans etc, but this is your predicament.

Perhaps you can now put some names on the murderers, since by now you have come to admit that we soiled our hands with innocent blood. Can you do this for us? Who did the killings and for what reason?

The reason was that in Cyprus a true democracy, and many other freedoms were not allowed and what we had was an anomalous situation, not a normal democratic country. If something similar or even worst is forced again, then the result will be again the same: more bloodshed and problems.

If what you are trying to say is that we are no angels, of course we are not. We are normal people. Turks killed 1000s of us, and we killed some 100s of them. If it was the case that only them were killing us, and we never retaliated, it would mean that we are Angels - each one of us a Jesus Christ - sorry to disappoint you, but we are not.

We know from our history and from the history of other countries what is right and what is wrong, and what works and what doesn't. Many countries passed from civil wars, slavery, segregation and things far worst than what we had in Cyprus, and how they all solved most of their problems (those that solved them) was always in the same way: Democracy, equality of citizens and human rights. This is what works.

People are all the same. Only a racist would claim otherwise. What changes is the situation. Put people in an anomalous, undemocratic, Apartheid kind of situation and big problems and conflicts will arise. Put the people in a democratic environment were human rights are protected, and any problems (which will always exist) will be minimized.

It is peole like you and GR, Kurupetos and Kifeas who are traitors. You are doin everything in you power to not bring a peaceful soution to the island. All you say is "balanse of power" and blah blah blah. This is not in the best interst of Cyprus or Cypriots. For me that make youa traiotor.

lovernomore, I hope you noticed that I usually ignore your nonsense. What you wrote is not even remotely related with anything that I said above.

In any case, what I will tell you is that peace is not the most important thing. If that was the case then nobody would fight against the Nazis, the fascists, against slavery and against foreign invaders. There are many things that worth fighting for, and this is what we do.

We don't want just a "peaceful solution", we want a just solution that will bring to Cyprus democracy and human rights and equality among people, and these are the things which will also bring a long lasting peace, as opposed to some fragile peace deal that will be based on ethnic cleansing and human rights violations, and which will sooner than later collapse.

Piratis, I ignore your posts also because you see one you see all. Same shit different day.

Anyway, how old are you? You talk Cyprus democracy, human rights add equality, can I please ask you if you are old enougf do you remeber if these was practiced on the TC comminity back in 1960?

[Piratis]

Yes Piratis and the Turkish Cypriots would democratically be citizens of another nation today, for one man one vote for you has been reduced to a tool of subversion of the minority to the majority. You have absolutely no idea how this world is run and your infant rantlings that we were dealt a bad hand by the world's powers because they did not giving us the choice to decide on our future shows clearly that you hardly understand the mechanics of world politics. Your naive idea that the world turns around on the axis of the global values of virtue, morality and principles is made worst by our ground record which shows that the majority which we were for 3 years between 1960-1963, saw us taking sick people from hospital beds and execute them. Of course you will tell me that we murdered 100's rather than the 1000's of us murdered by the Turks, Ottomans etc, but this is your predicament.

Perhaps you can now put some names on the murderers, since by now you have come to admit that we soiled our hands with innocent blood. Can you do this for us? Who did the killings and for what reason?

The reason was that in Cyprus a true democracy, and many other freedoms were not allowed and what we had was an anomalous situation, not a normal democratic country. If something similar or even worst is forced again, then the result will be again the same: more bloodshed and problems.

If what you are trying to say is that we are no angels, of course we are not. We are normal people. Turks killed 1000s of us, and we killed some 100s of them. If it was the case that only them were killing us, and we never retaliated, it would mean that we are Angels - each one of us a Jesus Christ - sorry to disappoint you, but we are not.

We know from our history and from the history of other countries what is right and what is wrong, and what works and what doesn't. Many countries passed from civil wars, slavery, segregation and things far worst than what we had in Cyprus, and how they all solved most of their problems (those that solved them) was always in the same way: Democracy, equality of citizens and human rights. This is what works.

People are all the same. Only a racist would claim otherwise. What changes is the situation. Put people in an anomalous, undemocratic, Apartheid kind of situation and big problems and conflicts will arise. Put the people in a democratic environment were human rights are protected, and any problems (which will always exist) will be minimized.

It is peole like you and GR, Kurupetos and Kifeas who are traitors. You are doin everything in you power to not bring a peaceful soution to the island. All you say is "balanse of power" and blah blah blah. This is not in the best interst of Cyprus or Cypriots. For me that make youa traiotor.

lovernomore, I hope you noticed that I usually ignore your nonsense. What you wrote is not even remotely related with anything that I said above.

In any case, what I will tell you is that peace is not the most important thing. If that was the case then nobody would fight against the Nazis, the fascists, against slavery and against foreign invaders. There are many things that worth fighting for, and this is what we do.

We don't want just a "peaceful solution", we want a just solution that will bring to Cyprus democracy and human rights and equality among people, and these are the things which will also bring a long lasting peace, as opposed to some fragile peace deal that will be based on ethnic cleansing and human rights violations, and which will sooner than later collapse.

Piratis, I ignore your posts also because you see one you see all. Same shit different day.

Anyway, how old are you? You talk Cyprus democracy, human rights add equality, can I please ask you if you are old enougf do you remeber if these was practiced on the TC comminity back in 1960?

I was born long after 1960, but all we have to do is to read the 1960 constitution to realize that a true democracy, one person one vote, was not allowed in Cyprus. Not even that, but the people were divided based on their ethnic background. GCs voted for president, TCs for vice president. This way the president was the leader of GCs and the vice president the leader of TCs, and we didn't have any leaders of Cypriots as a whole.

In fact even the "independence" given to Cyprus was crippled, and every serious analyst that refers to what was given to Cyprus back then calls it as "partial" or "semi" independence.

As I said earlier, in 1960 we were given something which was anomalous, undemocratic, and abnormal, and the problems that came out of that were inevitable.

What Cyprus needed then, and what needs now, since we all agreed that Cyprus will be an independent country, is a true independence and a true democracy, just like in every other normal democratic country.