Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

Maybe in others part of the world, but at this moment in time religion is a non-issue for turkish cypriots. It wouldnt really make a difference if every GC converted to islam tomorrow. If anything that would make 'reunification' less appealing.

Just so that we're clear. No one wishes to make reunification any more appealing to you than it already is. The benefits should be clear, as are the benefits of EU accession to Turkey.

You are a "might-is-right" bully boy living in an open prison which is where you deserve to be.

The strategy is to make the rest of Europe and the world appreciate fully that your "might-is-right" approach is the essence of the Cyprus problem rendering your position untenable; if it isn't already untenable.

The process itself is certainly real, but very few people beleive it will happen after the events of the last few years.

It will never happen while the majority think like you do and Turkey continues to conduct a "might-is-right" policy in Cyprus.

There are those who beleive the admission process itself is beneficial for turkey which is one reason to stick to it, and others who beleive that the only reason the AKP is discussing it at all is a electoral ploy as the whole reason they came to power in the first place was by playing the EU line. Both can be valid. The EU rhetoric in turkey has stopped big time anyhow in view of this.

Maybe they should just come clean like you have and explain that they believe "might-is-right" in Cyprus and bring this whole charade to an end.

Says who, you? Its a retarded comparison.

If you say so. After all "might is right" in your part of the world.

The EU in its current state, although there are those who in the distant future may wish to sculpt it into a massive 'state' , is no way near such a scene and theirs a lot of resistance from a lot of member states towards centralisation. So the comparison does not stand whatsoever.

Turkey aspires to turn its population into European citizens. They will make up 12% of the EU population, rendering them a minority. But Turks don't like being in a minority so they won't ever join the EU. So there's no point even having this discussion.

Look at myself? Only in your little egocentric world would you think that this is about me or you.

This is about your "might-is-right" attitude that make people like me hostile to you.

We have achieved what we have achieved because of might. In what other country would a 20% minority ask for the same rights as a 80% majority? Are we not only doing this through our might?

We are in full agreement. Now go back to your prison. Your parole has been rejected.

[Kifeas]

May be you are right T_C, but the rejectionists on our side are celebrating already.

Talat only has himself to blame for this, Bananiot. Leaders are elected to lead and not follow others. Talat became a follower than a leader. People do not like to see weak leaders and "showboating" stunts, like his trip to Washington this week, for a 30 minutes with Hilary that took him few days away from the election arena.. Lets see if he can redeem himself by next year by wanting a fair settlement and not the stupid AP re-run.!

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

And instead, they went ahead and voted for a nationalist man of Ergenekon and the Turkish deep-state. Very "clever" indeed, on their behalf. They have a very good idea of what is at stake, which is their very existence as a disntict community in Cyprus and which soon will take another downturn since this pantourkist idiot they “elected” will give even more “citizenships” to mainland Turkish settlers and will authorize even more looting of GC properties. Turkish Cypriots are a hopeless lot, even though I do not believe the majority of them voted for Eroglu. I am sure his very high percentage was achieved through a majority of settler "votes."

You make the huge assumption that all of the settlers vote like sheep for one party. Even if this was true at one time, I do not think that this hypothesis holds water any longer.

I didn't say all! I said most! It certainly determined the outcome. Nevertheless, the fact the settlers have "voting rights" is by itself a huge anomaly, as it pushes all TC parties to take into consideration their interests and demands, not only for the internal affairs of the TC community but also in relation to the Cyprus issue. Which TC political leader will accept and agree the settlers rightful repatriation, or at least the post-solution disenfranchising of their political rights, if they will be the determining force in any referendum that will take place for the approval of a solution? Furthermore, how will the GCs accept any power sharing formula with the TC community, if the deciding role in this so-called TC community's will, will be determined in large by a foreign element with alliances in Turkey? Isn't it like we are depositing our political independence and future as a country in the hands and desires of Turkey?

Wouldn't we GCs, in the same way that the TCs are now hostages to the settlers and to Turkey, also become hostages to the settlers and to Turkey in a power sharing formula? How can the stupid Anglo-Americans expect us to agree to a solution which will also open the road to Turkey’s EU accession, if they say nothing to Turkey about this anomalous situation in the occupied areas and rather accept the outcome as the more or less “legitimate will” of the Turkish Cypriots?

[The Cypriot]

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

I've been told that KADEM polster Muharrem Faiz – who conducts the Kibris polls – said in an interview on BRT television last night that this was not a referendum on the Cyprus solution (which didn't surface as an election issue, although CTP tried to make the link) but on the state of the economy; on jobs, prospects, financial worries about paying taxes, family budgets etc. (which are made all the more acute due to a lack of a solution).

[Tim Drayton]

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

I've been told that KADEM polster Muharrem Faiz – who conducts the Kibris polls – said in an interview on BRT television last night that this was not a referendum on the Cyprus solution (which didn't surface as an election issue, although CTP tried to make the link) but on the state of the economy; on jobs, prospects, financial worries about paying taxes, family budgets etc. (which are made all the more acute due to a lack of a solution).

Agreed, but I can't help wondering at the same time why more of the protest vote did not swing in the direction of the pro-reunification Jasmine Alliance/United Cyprus Party, who were fielding candidates like Arif Hasan Tahsin, İzzet İzcan, Şener Levent and Zeki Beşiktepeli, and who were very critical of the CTP's performance in their campaign. They managed to get a paltry 2.42% of the vote.

[Tim Drayton]

May be you are right T_C, but the rejectionists on our side are celebrating already.

Talat only has himself to blame for this, Bananiot. Leaders are elected to lead and not follow others. Talat became a follower than a leader. People do not like to see weak leaders and "showboating" stunts, like his trip to Washington this week, for a 30 minutes with Hilary that took him few days away from the election arena.. Lets see if he can redeem himself by next year by wanting a fair settlement and not the stupid AP re-run.!

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

And instead, they went ahead and voted for a nationalist man of Ergenekon and the Turkish deep-state. Very "clever" indeed, on their behalf. They have a very good idea of what is at stake, which is their very existence as a disntict community in Cyprus and which soon will take another downturn since this pantourkist idiot they “elected” will give even more “citizenships” to mainland Turkish settlers and will authorize even more looting of GC properties. Turkish Cypriots are a hopeless lot, even though I do not believe the majority of them voted for Eroglu. I am sure his very high percentage was achieved through a majority of settler "votes."

You make the huge assumption that all of the settlers vote like sheep for one party. Even if this was true at one time, I do not think that this hypothesis holds water any longer.

I didn't say all! I said most! It certainly determined the outcome. Nevertheless, the fact the settlers have "voting rights" is by itself a huge anomaly, as it pushes all TC parties to take into consideration their interests and demands, not only for the internal affairs of the TC community but also in relation to the Cyprus issue. Which TC political leader will accept and agree the settlers rightful repatriation, or at least the post-solution disenfranchising of their political rights, if they will be the determining force in any referendum that will take place for the approval of a solution? Furthermore, how will the GCs accept any power sharing formula with the TC community, if the deciding role in this so-called TC community's will, will be determined in large by a foreign element with alliances in Turkey? Isn't it like we are depositing our political independence and future as a country in the hands and desires of Turkey?

Wouldn't we GCs, in the same way that the TCs are now hostages to the settlers and to Turkey, also become hostages to the settlers and to Turkey in a power sharing formula? How can the stupid Anglo-Americans expect us to agree to a solution which will also open the road to Turkey’s EU accession, if they say nothing to Turkey about this anomalous situation in the occupied areas and rather accept the outcome as the more or less “legitimate will” of the Turkish Cypriots?

You are right. On the other hand a new generation is coming along within the Turkish-speaking community of Cyprus in which the children of Turkish Cypriots and Anatolian migrants have grown up and gone to school together. They are developing a hybrid Cypriot-Anatolian culture and do not make the kind of distinctions that their parents did. As the years pass and this generation moves into middle age and thus dominates political and economic life, the kind of arguments you are making above will lose all of their relevance. I say this with a heavy heart, but in the belief that with the passage of another decade or so the status quo will become irreversible.

[Jerry]

The current talks are now doomed to failure, so where do we go from here? The GCs will never agree to power sharing with, in effect, Turkey so I see partition (unfortunately) as the only solution. The GCs have said they don't want partition but with a sufficiently large bribe from Turkey I think it would be accepted. Turkey wants a foothold in Cyprus so as to defend its southern flank (I'm not sure what from especially if it joins the EU), it does not care about the Turkish Cypriots or settlers dumped on the island, a viable base in Cyprus is its main priority, membership of the EU comes second. I believe that Turkey will be tempted to return half the occupied territory for, in effect, annexation of the north and membership of the EU. The Turkish Cypriots will be the main losers in such an outcome. The ROC would have negotiate permanent derogations with the EU regarding the free movement of TCs, settlers and mainland Turks into the south of the island to avoid further "Turkification" of the island.

[The Cypriot]

Agreed, but I can't help wondering at the same time why more of the protest vote did not swing in the direction of the pro-reunification Jasmine Alliance/United Cyprus Party, who were fielding candidates like Arif Hasan Tahsin, İzzet İzcan, Şener Levent and Zeki Beşiktepeli, and who were very critical of the CTP's performance in their campaign. They managed to get a paltry 2.42% of the vote.

I cannot even begin to speculate on this Tim. Perhaps Omer will enlighten us.

What is interesting is that UBP's sister party in the south is DISY and contact between the two could help create a better understanding of the EU (which is clearly needed) as well as a dialogue with (non-left wing) Greek Cypriots.

But I am delving into the murky world of Cypriot party politics, in which I am far from comfortable.

[Murataga]

May be you are right T_C, but the rejectionists on our side are celebrating already.

Talat only has himself to blame for this, Bananiot. Leaders are elected to lead and not follow others. Talat became a follower than a leader. People do not like to see weak leaders and "showboating" stunts, like his trip to Washington this week, for a 30 minutes with Hilary that took him few days away from the election arena.. Lets see if he can redeem himself by next year by wanting a fair settlement and not the stupid AP re-run.!

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

And instead, they went ahead and voted for a nationalist man of Ergenekon and the Turkish deep-state. Very "clever" indeed, on their behalf. They have a very good idea of what is at stake, which is their very existence as a disntict community in Cyprus and which soon will take another downturn since this pantourkist idiot they “elected” will give even more “citizenships” to mainland Turkish settlers and will authorize even more looting of GC properties. Turkish Cypriots are a hopeless lot, even though I do not believe the majority of them voted for Eroglu. I am sure his very high percentage was achieved through a majority of settler "votes."

The CTP government has practically terminated giving out citizenships in the past 5 years. What we have today is more or less the same electoral pool that actually voted CTP to the government five years ago.

CTP lost votes for two reasons:

(1) Failed economic policies and the increase in corruption;

(2) CTP came to power by essentially exploiting hope via the AP to begin with. They told the people to vote "yes", and that if they do, things will be better - at least the embargoes will be removed. Well... we all know how that went

[Tim Drayton]

Agreed, but I can't help wondering at the same time why more of the protest vote did not swing in the direction of the pro-reunification Jasmine Alliance/United Cyprus Party, who were fielding candidates like Arif Hasan Tahsin, İzzet İzcan, Şener Levent and Zeki Beşiktepeli, and who were very critical of the CTP's performance in their campaign. They managed to get a paltry 2.42% of the vote.

I cannot even begin to speculate on this Tim. Perhaps Omer will enlighten us.

What is interesting is that UBP's sister party in the south is DISY and contact between the two could help create a better understanding of the EU (which is clearly needed) as well as a dialogue with (non-left wing) Greek Cypriots.

But I am delving into the murky world of Cypriot party politics, in which I am far from comfortable.

I would be very interested to know Iceman's thoughts on that, too, if he is around.

[Kikapu]

May be you are right T_C, but the rejectionists on our side are celebrating already.

Talat only has himself to blame for this, Bananiot. Leaders are elected to lead and not follow others. Talat became a follower than a leader. People do not like to see weak leaders and "showboating" stunts, like his trip to Washington this week, for a 30 minutes with Hilary that took him few days away from the election arena.. Lets see if he can redeem himself by next year by wanting a fair settlement and not the stupid AP re-run.!

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

And instead, they went ahead and voted for a nationalist man of Ergenekon and the Turkish deep-state. Very "clever" indeed, on their behalf. They have a very good idea of what is at stake, which is their very existence as a disntict community in Cyprus and which soon will take another downturn since this pantourkist idiot they “elected” will give even more “citizenships” to mainland Turkish settlers and will authorize even more looting of GC properties. Turkish Cypriots are a hopeless lot, even though I do not believe the majority of them voted for Eroglu. I am sure his very high percentage was achieved through a majority of settler "votes."

The CTP government has practically terminated giving out citizenships in the past 5 years. What we have today is more or less the same electoral pool that actually voted CTP to the government five years ago.

CTP lost votes for two reasons:

(1) Failed economic policies and the increase in corruption;

(2) CTP came to power by essentially exploiting hope via the AP to begin with. They told the people to vote "yes", and that if they do, things will be better - at least the embargoes will be removed. Well... we all know how that went

Was there ever a time when corruption in the north was never there, Murataga.? I hate saying this each time I do, but the north is nothing but a "corrupted society", so how can anyone expect anything different with different leadership.!