Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

EU democracy is based on consociationalism, ma dear. Even the so-called RoC with a tiny population, has a veto power in EU.

You better believe it, in terms of letting Turkey in... But in many other matters a veto simply won't apply. And in terms of adhering to EU laws already established, Turkey has no option to comply, if serious about accession, as her government professes to be.

It's about consensus. You need to do some reading about how the EU works, insan. And what mama Turkiye is letting you in for. Visit the prison library.

I have no problem with consociational democracy anywhere on this planet earth.

Worth reading up on this as well. Democracy generally.

I have no problems with Hellenic values of ancient Greeks either.

Why would anyone?

[turkkan]

ethnic differences were born out of religioud differences.

Maybe in others part of the world, but at this moment in time religion is a non-issue for turkish cypriots. It wouldnt really make a difference if every GC converted to islam tomorrow. If anything that would make 'reunification' less appealing.

Turkey's policy to join EU is real not hypothetical.

The process itself is certainly real, but very few people beleive it will happen after the events of the last few years. There are those who beleive the admission process itself is beneficial for turkey which is one reason to stick to it, and others who beleive that the only reason the AKP is discussing it at all is a electoral ploy as the whole reason they came to power in the first place was by playing the EU line. Both can be valid. The EU rhetoric in turkey has stopped big time anyhow in view of this.

there is a very real comparison. You're just having problems getting your head round it.

Says who, you? Its a retarded comparison. The EU in its current state, although there are those who in the distant future may wish to sculpt it into a massive 'state' , is no way near such a scene and theirs a lot of resistance from a lot of member states towards centralisation. So the comparison does not stand whatsoever.

What an admission! Things don't quite work like that in the EU. It's less about demands and might, more about consensus and persuasion. I think you need to take a look at yourself, and your 'might is right' attitude. It might explain people's hostility.

Look at myself? Only in your little egocentric world would you think that this is about me or you. We have achieved what we have achieved because of might. In what other country would a 20% minority ask for the same rights as a 80% majority? Are we not only doing this through our might? This is nothing specific to turkey,nearly every other country be they a minor player or a major player in the world scene conducts foreign policy through these means.It has nothing whatsoever to do with you or me.

[runaway]

well done UBP

[Kifeas]

The only reason we demand what we demand is because we have the might to do so ......

I would like to say that this is the first time a TC or a Turk has had the honesty and the sincerity to admit what every Greek Cypriot already knows and has been saying all along. What Turkan admits is that what his side demands is not based so much on what at least they themselves believe is reasonable, logical, legitimate and fair -at least towards the other side, but mainly because they feel they have the might to do so. Thank you very much Turkan. At least you are honest and sincere, unlike the rest of your TC compatriots who are trying to rationalize the demands on their side though distorted and warped facts, claims, theories.

I have to say though that such an approach -i.e. to demand things not because they are reasonable, logical and fair, but only because one feels has the “might” to secure (read impose,) is a very short sighted approach and never secured peace in the long run, more so in this day and age. It is a similar shortsighted approach and policy the GC side had tried to follow between 1964-1968, but which in the end brought the opposite results. The GCs learned from their mistakes, but it seems the TCs did not learn anything from the GCs' mistakes, and will inevitably have to pay a similar price to that which the GCs had paid. As we say "weather always has its (cyclical) turns!"

[miltiades]

The only reason we demand what we demand is because we have the might to do so ......

I would like to say that this is the first time a TC or a Turk has had the honesty and the sincerity to admit what every Greek Cypriot already knows and has been saying all along. What Turkan admits is that what his side demands is not based so much on what at least they themselves believe is reasonable, logical, legitimate and fair -at least towards the other side, but mainly because they feel they have the might to do so. Thank you very much Turkan. At least you are honest and sincere, unlike the rest of your TC compatriots who are trying to rationalize the demands on their side though distorted and warped facts, claims, theories.

I have to say though that such an approach -i.e. to demand things not because they are reasonable, logical and fair, but only because one feels has the “might” to secure (read impose,) is a very short sighted approach and never secured peace in the long run, more so in this day and age. It is a similar shortsighted approach and policy the GC side had tried to follow between 1964-1968, but which in the end brought the opposite results. The GCs learned from their mistakes, but it seems the TCs did not learn anything from the GCs' mistakes, and will inevitably have to pay a similar price to that which the GCs had paid. As we say "weather always has its (cyclical) turns!"

Tukan was absolutely right in stating that "might" is the predominant factor in determining the outcome of a conflict . It always was the supreme factor and it always will , the difference with past "might" resolved conflict however is that a new "might" has emerged over the last 20 or so years , the political "might" a far more potent force to be reckoned with as time goes by. Turkey is the current "might" militarily but is she also the "might" politically ?
The EU takes a dim view of member nations not adhering to its principles , Turkey will one day become a member and Turkey will have to adopt EU principles ,her current might will then be obsolte .

[Kifeas]

The only reason we demand what we demand is because we have the might to do so ......

I would like to say that this is the first time a TC or a Turk has had the honesty and the sincerity to admit what every Greek Cypriot already knows and has been saying all along. What Turkan admits is that what his side demands is not based so much on what at least they themselves believe is reasonable, logical, legitimate and fair -at least towards the other side, but mainly because they feel they have the might to do so. Thank you very much Turkan. At least you are honest and sincere, unlike the rest of your TC compatriots who are trying to rationalize the demands on their side though distorted and warped facts, claims, theories.

I have to say though that such an approach -i.e. to demand things not because they are reasonable, logical and fair, but only because one feels has the “might” to secure (read impose,) is a very short sighted approach and never secured peace in the long run, more so in this day and age. It is a similar shortsighted approach and policy the GC side had tried to follow between 1964-1968, but which in the end brought the opposite results. The GCs learned from their mistakes, but it seems the TCs did not learn anything from the GCs' mistakes, and will inevitably have to pay a similar price to that which the GCs had paid. As we say "weather always has its (cyclical) turns!"

Tukan was absolutely right in stating that "might" is the predominant factor in determining the outcome of a conflict . It always was the supreme factor and it always will , the difference with past "might" resolved conflict however is that a new "might" has emerged over the last 20 or so years , the political "might" a far more potent force to be reckoned with as time goes by. Turkey is the current "might" militarily but is she also the "might" politically ?
The EU takes a dim view of member nations not adhering to its principles , Turkey will one day become a member and Turkey will have to adopt EU principles ,her current might will then be obsolte .

You are confused my friend. Military might is another form of political might. In most cases, military might is what determines political might, and this is first and foremost practiced by your beloved US, which is also the one feeding and watering Turkey's military might, and in turn and as a consequence, its political might.

You are saying that once Turkey becomes an EU member, her current might will be obsolete, however, you forget that in order for Turkey to become an EU member, the Cyprus problem will have to be solved in a way acceptable to us. In such a scenario, whether Turkey's military (and political) might will become obsolete or not, is irrelevant for our cause.

[Tim Drayton]

May be you are right T_C, but the rejectionists on our side are celebrating already.

Talat only has himself to blame for this, Bananiot. Leaders are elected to lead and not follow others. Talat became a follower than a leader. People do not like to see weak leaders and "showboating" stunts, like his trip to Washington this week, for a 30 minutes with Hilary that took him few days away from the election arena.. Lets see if he can redeem himself by next year by wanting a fair settlement and not the stupid AP re-run.!

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

[Kifeas]

May be you are right T_C, but the rejectionists on our side are celebrating already.

Talat only has himself to blame for this, Bananiot. Leaders are elected to lead and not follow others. Talat became a follower than a leader. People do not like to see weak leaders and "showboating" stunts, like his trip to Washington this week, for a 30 minutes with Hilary that took him few days away from the election arena.. Lets see if he can redeem himself by next year by wanting a fair settlement and not the stupid AP re-run.!

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

And instead, they went ahead and voted for a nationalist man of Ergenekon and the Turkish deep-state. Very "clever" indeed, on their behalf. They have a very good idea of what is at stake, which is their very existence as a disntict community in Cyprus and which soon will take another downturn since this pantourkist idiot they “elected” will give even more “citizenships” to mainland Turkish settlers and will authorize even more looting of GC properties. Turkish Cypriots are a hopeless lot, even though I do not believe the majority of them voted for Eroglu. I am sure his very high percentage was achieved through a majority of settler "votes."

[Tim Drayton]

May be you are right T_C, but the rejectionists on our side are celebrating already.

Talat only has himself to blame for this, Bananiot. Leaders are elected to lead and not follow others. Talat became a follower than a leader. People do not like to see weak leaders and "showboating" stunts, like his trip to Washington this week, for a 30 minutes with Hilary that took him few days away from the election arena.. Lets see if he can redeem himself by next year by wanting a fair settlement and not the stupid AP re-run.!

The feeling I have is that people had become very disillusioned with the CTP government's record on much more basic issues. They have seen unprecedented levels of corruption and cronyism at a time when the living standards of ordinary people have been under attack. Crime levels have been spiralling out of control. Unfortunately, this election result will be interpreted as being a kind of referendum on the peace process when I think it is far more a vote of no confidence on the CTP government's ability to handle bread-and-butter issues.

And instead, they went ahead and voted for a nationalist man of Ergenekon and the Turkish deep-state. Very "clever" indeed, on their behalf. They have a very good idea of what is at stake, which is their very existence as a disntict community in Cyprus and which soon will take another downturn since this pantourkist idiot they “elected” will give even more “citizenships” to mainland Turkish settlers and will authorize even more looting of GC properties. Turkish Cypriots are a hopeless lot, even though I do not believe the majority of them voted for Eroglu. I am sure his very high percentage was achieved through a majority of settler "votes."

You make the huge assumption that all of the settlers vote like sheep for one party. Even if this was true at one time, I do not think that this hypothesis holds water any longer.

[halil]

for Turkish speakers here is the UBP program

http://www.ulusalbirlikpartisi.com/Bildirge.html