Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

Thank you growuptcs ... onwards ....


Sound Comparisons
between
Turkish and Mongolian


by
Hugjiltu
Inner Mongolia University


Concerning the sounds, grammars and lexica of Turkish and Mongolian,
there are quite a number of relations, typological similarities and af-
finities. Though the Turkish language has been considerably influenced
by Arabian, Persian and other Indo-European languages, it still keeps
the basic characteristics which the Turkic languages originally had. Un-
til now, scholars like G. J. Ramstedt, B. Y. Vladimirtsov, N. Poppe, Sir
G. Clauson, L. Ligeti, W. Kotwicz e.a. have done descriptive and com-
parative studies on the various relations existing among the Turkic and
Mongolian languages, but it has not been determined if these relations
prove the same genealogy or should just to be considered as typological
similarities. This problem can only be solved by further studying the
common properties of these languages in order to find out which are
results of mutual borrowing and which are results of mutual influence.

For the comparative study of Turkish and Mongolian we can reference the
monographs by G. J. Ramstedt, N. Poppe, P. Pelliot, G. Nemeth, Sir G.
Clauson, E. Hovdhaugen. G. Doerfer, L. V. Clark e.a. In Turkey, the com-
parative study between Turkish and Mongolian is done by native scholars
such as Prof. Ahmet Temir, Talat Tekin, Tuncer G￾lensoy, O. N. Tuna e.a.

Among the Turkic languages, Turkish is in the most western place and far
away from the Mongol Highland. Concerning its objective condition, the
opportunities for cantact with the Mongolian language are rare. During
my learning and studying of Turkish, I have unexpectedly found a great
amount of words common to both Turkish and Mongolian. Furthermore, there
are also many corresponding relations and similarities concerning sound
and grammar.

In order to explore the laws of phonetic correspondences between Turkish
and Mongolian, a lexicon gathered from a few Turkish dictionaries served
as the basis for a tentative comparison between the sounds of the
Turkish language and written Mongolian.

http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~corff/im/ ... ugjilt.unx

If you actually read the article, you will see that the author is claiming (correctly) that Turkish and Mongolian languages belong to different families, but that there is evidence that they have influenced one another.

[CBBB]

How about Cyprus? Is it fair on our children not to know evolution? What can we do about it?

Can somebody confirm whether Evolution is tought in TC schools or not.

I would also be interested to know this.

They don't teach about evolution here? How come my sons knew about it when at school?

[Piratis]

Don't talk rubbish oracle, most fools know that evolution has no end purpose. Evolution did not "mean" to create man, this is elementary staff. I said that evolution happens despite natural selection which may favour certain fascist elements to appear temporarily and, my apologies, this despite our forum (ideological) differences.

So are you suggesting that fascists like you have a different kind of dna? Is Hitler your relative by any chance? You both support imperialism and invasions of foreign countries. Hitler also thought it was a good excuse to invade Czechoslovakia in order to "protect" the German minority there, and you seem to have the same views in the case of the Turkish invasion against Cyprus. And of course lets not forget that just like Hitler you also think that freedom, democracy and human rights can be compromised.

What kind of stupid remark is that?
Were the Czech Germans in any danger when Hitler invaded?
Which planet are you from?

The Nazis said that their minority was in danger. Like the Turks said that their minority was in danger.

The fact is that none was in danger, and that these minorities were simply used as an excuse for an invasion that was planned long time before.

The facts clearly show that in 1974 no TC was harmed during the coup, and those that were killed in 1974 were killed only after Turkey and TCs attacked us on July 20th.

I am not aware of any strife between the Germans and the Czechs, but can you really say the same between the coupists and the TCs in 1974 with a straight face.
Do you really believe that if Turkey did not invade, not one TC was going to be harmed?
If that is the case Why have the coup then?
Will You answer it this time? What was their vision and intentions after they killed the opposing GCs.
What were they going to do?

Sorry YFred, but you don't know the history if you say that there was no strife between the Germans and the Czechs. Also it is a fact that during the coup no TC was killed. Any TCs that were killed in 1974 were killed during the war that TCs and Turks started on the 20th of July by invading Cyprus. In that war 1000s of GCs were killed and only a few 100s of TCs.

The coup had as a first aim to remove/kill Makarios who was considered by the Americans (who were behind the Athens Junta) as being the "Red Monk" of the "Cuba of the Mediterranean". At most union with Cyprus and Greece would be declared.

Nothing would happen to TCs. The Junta was ruling Greece for years, and the Turkish minority there was not "exterminated".

TC's never invaded this island, yet you were happy to massacre civilians while fighting the Turks, but somehow that seems to be OK in your books since, well you are fighting the Turks anyways so why not kill them all while at it?!!?!

Face it, if Turkey had not succeeded there wouldn't be 1 TC alive to tell the story.

You always pretend this little comment never existed:

"Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed Enosis but I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus."

The rest is usual Piratis crap...

If that was the case then why there was no TC casualty during the 5 days of the coup, and why the Turks in Greece were not annihilated after several years of Junta rule?

Turkey invaded Cyprus with the help of TCs. We are still finding GCs in mass graves that were executed by TCs not only during the inter-communal conflict of 1958-1968, but also during the 1974 invasion. Your idea that TCs did not participate in the Turkish invasion is totally wrong.

Incidentally, in the majority of the 15 cases identified and handed over a month ago, and the 23 ongoing cases, each death was caused by a bullet to the head.

“They were all executed. The first cases were people from Yialousa, none of them were soldiers. They were arrested after the ceasefire and they were just shot. It could have been for revenge. It was Turkish Cypriots that carried out the arrests in Yialousa,” said Theodosiou.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=34222

And no, killing of civilians is not right in my books. But you have to remember that you are the ones who started these atrocities against 1000s of innocent civilians, and you are the one who is here supporting the atrocities, the murders and the ethnic cleansing committed by the Turks/TCs in 1974.

[Oracle]

Thank you growuptcs ... onwards ....


Sound Comparisons
between
Turkish and Mongolian


by
Hugjiltu
Inner Mongolia University


Concerning the sounds, grammars and lexica of Turkish and Mongolian,
there are quite a number of relations, typological similarities and af-
finities. Though the Turkish language has been considerably influenced
by Arabian, Persian and other Indo-European languages, it still keeps
the basic characteristics which the Turkic languages originally had. Un-
til now, scholars like G. J. Ramstedt, B. Y. Vladimirtsov, N. Poppe, Sir
G. Clauson, L. Ligeti, W. Kotwicz e.a. have done descriptive and com-
parative studies on the various relations existing among the Turkic and
Mongolian languages, but it has not been determined if these relations
prove the same genealogy or should just to be considered as typological
similarities. This problem can only be solved by further studying the
common properties of these languages in order to find out which are
results of mutual borrowing and which are results of mutual influence.

For the comparative study of Turkish and Mongolian we can reference the
monographs by G. J. Ramstedt, N. Poppe, P. Pelliot, G. Nemeth, Sir G.
Clauson, E. Hovdhaugen. G. Doerfer, L. V. Clark e.a. In Turkey, the com-
parative study between Turkish and Mongolian is done by native scholars
such as Prof. Ahmet Temir, Talat Tekin, Tuncer G￾lensoy, O. N. Tuna e.a.

Among the Turkic languages, Turkish is in the most western place and far
away from the Mongol Highland. Concerning its objective condition, the
opportunities for cantact with the Mongolian language are rare. During
my learning and studying of Turkish, I have unexpectedly found a great
amount of words common to both Turkish and Mongolian. Furthermore, there
are also many corresponding relations and similarities concerning sound
and grammar.

In order to explore the laws of phonetic correspondences between Turkish
and Mongolian, a lexicon gathered from a few Turkish dictionaries served
as the basis for a tentative comparison between the sounds of the
Turkish language and written Mongolian.

http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~corff/im/ ... ugjilt.unx

If you actually read the article, you will see that the author is claiming (correctly) that Turkish and Mongolian languages belong to different families, but that there is evidence that they have influenced one another.

But Tim if you were to read my post, you will see I did not make any comments, but merely presented the findings as they were...

However, do please show me where the linguists concluded that Turkish and Mongolian belong to different families, as my impression is that is still up for determination:

This problem can only be solved by further studying the
common properties of these languages in order to find out which are
results of mutual borrowing and which are results of mutual influence.

You seem pretty sure they should "correctly" be placed in different families without further research.

Of notable interest is how they point out Mongolia's relative isolation (geographical), which may indicate a very close association in any probable early common ancestor between these two languages:

Concerning its objective condition, the
opportunities for contact with the Mongolian language are rare.

But the opening statement is quite defining of a need for further research:

Concerning the sounds, grammars and lexica of Turkish and Mongolian,
there are quite a number of relations, typological similarities and af-
finities.

Such extensive morphological similarities, may throw some more light towards tracing pathways of migrations.

[Bananiot]

CBBB, when did your son leave school? Evolution, a whole three pages of it, was taught (sic) until about 6 years ago, but not for all students. Another relevent question is, how much did your son know?

[shahmaran]

Don't talk rubbish oracle, most fools know that evolution has no end purpose. Evolution did not "mean" to create man, this is elementary staff. I said that evolution happens despite natural selection which may favour certain fascist elements to appear temporarily and, my apologies, this despite our forum (ideological) differences.

So are you suggesting that fascists like you have a different kind of dna? Is Hitler your relative by any chance? You both support imperialism and invasions of foreign countries. Hitler also thought it was a good excuse to invade Czechoslovakia in order to "protect" the German minority there, and you seem to have the same views in the case of the Turkish invasion against Cyprus. And of course lets not forget that just like Hitler you also think that freedom, democracy and human rights can be compromised.

What kind of stupid remark is that?
Were the Czech Germans in any danger when Hitler invaded?
Which planet are you from?

The Nazis said that their minority was in danger. Like the Turks said that their minority was in danger.

The fact is that none was in danger, and that these minorities were simply used as an excuse for an invasion that was planned long time before.

The facts clearly show that in 1974 no TC was harmed during the coup, and those that were killed in 1974 were killed only after Turkey and TCs attacked us on July 20th.

I am not aware of any strife between the Germans and the Czechs, but can you really say the same between the coupists and the TCs in 1974 with a straight face.
Do you really believe that if Turkey did not invade, not one TC was going to be harmed?
If that is the case Why have the coup then?
Will You answer it this time? What was their vision and intentions after they killed the opposing GCs.
What were they going to do?

Sorry YFred, but you don't know the history if you say that there was no strife between the Germans and the Czechs. Also it is a fact that during the coup no TC was killed. Any TCs that were killed in 1974 were killed during the war that TCs and Turks started on the 20th of July by invading Cyprus. In that war 1000s of GCs were killed and only a few 100s of TCs.

The coup had as a first aim to remove/kill Makarios who was considered by the Americans (who were behind the Athens Junta) as being the "Red Monk" of the "Cuba of the Mediterranean". At most union with Cyprus and Greece would be declared.

Nothing would happen to TCs. The Junta was ruling Greece for years, and the Turkish minority there was not "exterminated".

TC's never invaded this island, yet you were happy to massacre civilians while fighting the Turks, but somehow that seems to be OK in your books since, well you are fighting the Turks anyways so why not kill them all while at it?!!?!

Face it, if Turkey had not succeeded there wouldn't be 1 TC alive to tell the story.

You always pretend this little comment never existed:

"Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed Enosis but I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus."

The rest is usual Piratis crap...

If that was the case then why there was no TC casualty during the 5 days of the coup, and why the Turks in Greece were not annihilated after several years of Junta rule?

Turkey invaded Cyprus with the help of TCs. We are still finding GCs in mass graves that were executed by TCs not only during the inter-communal conflict of 1958-1968, but also during the 1974 invasion. Your idea that TCs did not participate in the Turkish invasion is totally wrong.

Incidentally, in the majority of the 15 cases identified and handed over a month ago, and the 23 ongoing cases, each death was caused by a bullet to the head.

“They were all executed. The first cases were people from Yialousa, none of them were soldiers. They were arrested after the ceasefire and they were just shot. It could have been for revenge. It was Turkish Cypriots that carried out the arrests in Yialousa,” said Theodosiou.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=34222

And no, killing of civilians is not right in my books. But you have to remember that you are the ones who started these atrocities against 1000s of innocent civilians, and you are the one who is here supporting the atrocities, the murders and the ethnic cleansing committed by the Turks/TCs in 1974.

Somehow I rather choose to pay more attention to the eye witnesses who were actually here and STILL alive, than the ramblings of some poor obsessed racist old sod in front of a computer working as a bad propagandist.

[Piratis]

Don't talk rubbish oracle, most fools know that evolution has no end purpose. Evolution did not "mean" to create man, this is elementary staff. I said that evolution happens despite natural selection which may favour certain fascist elements to appear temporarily and, my apologies, this despite our forum (ideological) differences.

So are you suggesting that fascists like you have a different kind of dna? Is Hitler your relative by any chance? You both support imperialism and invasions of foreign countries. Hitler also thought it was a good excuse to invade Czechoslovakia in order to "protect" the German minority there, and you seem to have the same views in the case of the Turkish invasion against Cyprus. And of course lets not forget that just like Hitler you also think that freedom, democracy and human rights can be compromised.

What kind of stupid remark is that?
Were the Czech Germans in any danger when Hitler invaded?
Which planet are you from?

The Nazis said that their minority was in danger. Like the Turks said that their minority was in danger.

The fact is that none was in danger, and that these minorities were simply used as an excuse for an invasion that was planned long time before.

The facts clearly show that in 1974 no TC was harmed during the coup, and those that were killed in 1974 were killed only after Turkey and TCs attacked us on July 20th.

I am not aware of any strife between the Germans and the Czechs, but can you really say the same between the coupists and the TCs in 1974 with a straight face.
Do you really believe that if Turkey did not invade, not one TC was going to be harmed?
If that is the case Why have the coup then?
Will You answer it this time? What was their vision and intentions after they killed the opposing GCs.
What were they going to do?

Sorry YFred, but you don't know the history if you say that there was no strife between the Germans and the Czechs. Also it is a fact that during the coup no TC was killed. Any TCs that were killed in 1974 were killed during the war that TCs and Turks started on the 20th of July by invading Cyprus. In that war 1000s of GCs were killed and only a few 100s of TCs.

The coup had as a first aim to remove/kill Makarios who was considered by the Americans (who were behind the Athens Junta) as being the "Red Monk" of the "Cuba of the Mediterranean". At most union with Cyprus and Greece would be declared.

Nothing would happen to TCs. The Junta was ruling Greece for years, and the Turkish minority there was not "exterminated".

TC's never invaded this island, yet you were happy to massacre civilians while fighting the Turks, but somehow that seems to be OK in your books since, well you are fighting the Turks anyways so why not kill them all while at it?!!?!

Face it, if Turkey had not succeeded there wouldn't be 1 TC alive to tell the story.

You always pretend this little comment never existed:

"Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed Enosis but I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus."

The rest is usual Piratis crap...

If that was the case then why there was no TC casualty during the 5 days of the coup, and why the Turks in Greece were not annihilated after several years of Junta rule?

Turkey invaded Cyprus with the help of TCs. We are still finding GCs in mass graves that were executed by TCs not only during the inter-communal conflict of 1958-1968, but also during the 1974 invasion. Your idea that TCs did not participate in the Turkish invasion is totally wrong.

Incidentally, in the majority of the 15 cases identified and handed over a month ago, and the 23 ongoing cases, each death was caused by a bullet to the head.

“They were all executed. The first cases were people from Yialousa, none of them were soldiers. They were arrested after the ceasefire and they were just shot. It could have been for revenge. It was Turkish Cypriots that carried out the arrests in Yialousa,” said Theodosiou.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=34222

And no, killing of civilians is not right in my books. But you have to remember that you are the ones who started these atrocities against 1000s of innocent civilians, and you are the one who is here supporting the atrocities, the murders and the ethnic cleansing committed by the Turks/TCs in 1974.

Somehow I rather choose to pay more attention to the eye witnesses who were actually here and STILL alive, than the ramblings of some poor obsessed racist old sod in front of a computer working as a bad propagandist.

The racist here is none else than you my friend. You support the ethnic cleansing of 100s of thousands of innocent people and when your lame excuses for your racist acts are refuted with facts you resort to personal attacks.

[Oracle]

What I don't understand is how anyone can possibly call GCs racist for not wanting to concede any of their land to some tribe from Mongolia that has not been pushed back East, yet, as much as they were in some other European countries.

Not that there is anything wrong with Mongolians (present day ones are great), or e.g. French etc ... but just as the English would not want to fragment the UK and gift a piece to some Norman (French) remnants, just because for 350 years the French ruled England, and their descendants suddenly want independent recognition, for no apparent reason, other than their ancestors invaded Britain some one thousand years ago ....

Why should we be forced to do something the UK would not do under semi-comparable circumstances?

No one would accuse the Brits of racism against the French, for not recognizing, let's say Kent, as wholly French!

[insan]

What I don't understand is how anyone can possibly call GCs racist for not wanting to concede any of their land to some tribe from Mongolia that has not been pushed back East, yet, as much as they were in some other European countries.

Not that there is anything wrong with Mongolians (present day ones are great), or e.g. French etc ... but just as the English would not want to fragment the UK and gift a piece to some Norman (French) remnants, just because for 350 years the French ruled England, and their descendants suddenly want independent recognition, for no apparent reason, other than their ancestors invaded Britain some one thousand years ago ....

Why should we be forced to do something the UK would not do under semi-comparable circumstances?

No one would accuse the Brits of racism against the French, for not recognizing, let's say Kent, as wholly French!

Gratz Oracle! It's the first time that you've built the correct analogy to put forward your opinions. The answer lays within your opinions because all other existed and existing circumstances of the world were/are just partly or semi-compareable to the circumstances of Cyprus. That's what makes the Cyprus Problem still unique to it's own circumstances.

[Oracle]

What I don't understand is how anyone can possibly call GCs racist for not wanting to concede any of their land to some tribe from Mongolia that has not been pushed back East, yet, as much as they were in some other European countries.

Not that there is anything wrong with Mongolians (present day ones are great), or e.g. French etc ... but just as the English would not want to fragment the UK and gift a piece to some Norman (French) remnants, just because for 350 years the French ruled England, and their descendants suddenly want independent recognition, for no apparent reason, other than their ancestors invaded Britain some one thousand years ago ....

Why should we be forced to do something the UK would not do under semi-comparable circumstances?

No one would accuse the Brits of racism against the French, for not recognizing, let's say Kent, as wholly French!

Gratz Oracle! It's the first time that you've built the correct analogy to put forward your opinions. The answer lays within your opinions because all other existed and existing circumstances of the world were/are just partly or semi-compareable to the circumstances of Cyprus. That's what makes the Cyprus Problem still unique to it's own circumstances.

The semi-comparable element is the fact that the Norman-French have been assimilated in Britain for nearly 1000 years, whereas you Mongolian invaders have only been here for a few hundred years ... and even then, the French, do not have any reason to demand a piece of the UK ... so why should you demand a piece of Cyprus, having come from further afield and having been around for less time?

Another semi-comparable factor, is that the French are closer to the Brits in migration routes and religion, and ... even language, than the Greeks are to the invading Mongolian Turks!

Basically, the hint is that you do not belong in Cyprus as a separate entity! ....