Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

I can do a mean Zeimbekiko especialy afte a bottle or two
In my breif period as a professional Bouzouki player , about 4 years in all , I sometimes after a glass or two would forget what my job was and would jump on the dance floor for a GIRO , step , or 2 of zeibekiko !!
Still have my bouzouki although is battered and bruised a bit like me I suppose . My daughter took it to her school here in London years ago when they put up a show they had and it rolled off the table causing quite a lot of damage . Those were the days when my guitarist , a lovely chap called Pantelis who was such a pro , used to be so particular about tuning he would insist that we go to the quietest part of the venue , usually the loo , in order that our instruments were finely tuned .!!
Played with a small band consisting of a couple of T/C guys one on the drums and the other on the organ . Pantelis is still going on the other guys I lost touch .
Memories !!

[YFred]

I can do a mean Zeimbekiko especialy afte a bottle or two
In my breif period as a professional Bouzouki player , about 4 years in all , I sometimes after a glass or two would forget what my job was and would jump on the dance floor for a GIRO , step , or 2 of zeibekiko !!
Still have my bouzouki although is battered and bruised a bit like me I suppose . My daughter took it to her school here in London years ago when they put up a show they had and it rolled off the table causing quite a lot of damage . Those were the days when my guitarist , a lovely chap called Pantelis who was such a pro , used to be so particular about tuning he would insist that we go to the quietest part of the venue , usually the loo , in order that our instruments were finely tuned .!!
Played with a small band consisting of a couple of T/C guys one on the drums and the other on the organ . Pantelis is still going on the other guys I lost touch .
Memories !!

Did you ever cross paths with Gulferi or his sons?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

The answer is NO. So what point did you prove?

Now you are lieing, the majority can pass such a law, they can ban abortion and inter marriages, the EU may object but locally you can do a lot of things that will make life hell for TCs if you are allowed to do as you wish. This is why safeguards are paramount in any new plan to guarantee not only our effective participation in a united Cyprus but also our security.

Probably you confuse the real democracy that I advocate with "democracies" like Turkey or non democracies like in other Muslim countries that "capital punishment for women adulteresses" is possible.

As I explained you already, democracy means both, majority rule AND human and minority rights. For your information in EU countries capital punishment is prohibited even for serious crimes.

I do not confuse anything what I do try to do is provide examples of the risks we would face and how if left to your mercy we would soon be struggling against many problems created by your "democracy". The majority and you GCs are experts can manipulate and twists "democracy" to their heats content ifthey so wish to exploit persecute and discrimiante against TCs, this is where we need safeguards to counter this risk.

Here we go with the "evil" GCs theories again and the lame excuse to deny democracy from Cyprus. It is this mentality of yours that caused the conflicts. There would be no conflicts at all if you respected democracy to begin with.

No your trying to gift our country to Greece was what caused the conflict, high time you realized that fact.

Not only there is no evidence to support your baseless imaginary scenarios, but the evidence point to the contrary. Rhodes united with Greece in 1947 and Rhodes also has a Turkish minority on it. Nothing happened to them.

Again what happened to the Turks in Crete or even the Turks in Greece you conveniently avoid these issues. Piratis you have to come to terms with the reality that neither side is white they have both made plenty of mistakes which have not allowed a Cypriots people to form a bond or grow, you still think that Greeks and GCs did no wrong when they were really the cause of the divide we have today and the last ones to reject any hope of a solution the last time it was offered. You have to take your share of the blamed without reducing it or dividing it, you did wrong by trying to push the TCs to one side and by making Cyprus hell for them. We did what we had to do and this is fight for survival.

First of all when you came up with Taksim Cyprus was not independent, and you had not even proposed independence. Cyprus was part of the British and earlier Ottoman empires. So how could it be fine for Cyprus to be part of the British or Ottoman empires against the will of the vast majority of Cypriots, but not OK for Cyprus to be part of Greece which is what most of the Cypriots themselves wanted?

Not only that, but uniting our island with whomever we democratically choose was in fact our right, as clearly stated by the UN resolution for decolonization which clearly states that "integration into an independent State" is one of the " three legitimate options of full self-government."
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Which came first enosis or taksim? eoka or TMT? You had and still do not have any right to turn Cyprus over to Greece we do not want it and will fight even today to stop it, when will you realize that Cyprus is not Greek it is Cypriot?
Just as you do not want any part of Cyprus to become part of Turkey we do not want to become part of Greece.

Nobody forced you to live in Cyprus. On the contrary you are the ones who came on this island with the aim to enslave and exploit us.

After being ruled by foreigners for centuries we had every right for our self-determination, and self-determination also means the right to unite with whomever we democratically choose.

Union with Greece was the right of Cypriots and would violate the human rights of nobody. All you have against union with Greece is some imaginary and baseless scenarios and nothing more.

On the other hand taksim, means the ethnic cleaning of 100s of thousands of people from their homeland and a ton of other human rights violations.

And then you have the nerve to say that the only problem with partition is our "greed"?? So it our "greed" that we want to live in our own land, and not your greed that you want to steal our land? You are shameless!

You were forcing me to live as part of Greece not Cyprus, this opened the door for mass revolt as you did not consider that a large aprt of your population did not want this as they saw it their anniahalation, even today after so much suffering you still arrogantly continue the same mentality of your forefather that landed you in this mess in the first place and perpetuates division today.

You do not want to share jack shit with TCs all you want is more land, tell me I am wrongif you had the option to get rid of all the TCs and take back the whole island you would not have a second thought, you would choose as you say to complete your drem and finally convert Cyprus into a Greek island.

[Piratis]

Piratis

The answer is NO. So what point did you prove?

Now you are lieing, the majority can pass such a law, they can ban abortion and inter marriages, the EU may object but locally you can do a lot of things that will make life hell for TCs if you are allowed to do as you wish. This is why safeguards are paramount in any new plan to guarantee not only our effective participation in a united Cyprus but also our security.

Now you went from beheading women adulteresses, to abortion and inter-marriages?

Abortion yes, a democratically elected government can ban it. Is there any human right in favor of abortion? I don't think so.
In case of inter-marriages no, it is a human right and can not be banned.

Probably you confuse the real democracy that I advocate with "democracies" like Turkey or non democracies like in other Muslim countries that "capital punishment for women adulteresses" is possible.

As I explained you already, democracy means both, majority rule AND human and minority rights. For your information in EU countries capital punishment is prohibited even for serious crimes.

I do not confuse anything what I do try to do is provide examples of the risks we would face and how if left to your mercy we would soon be struggling against many problems created by your "democracy". The majority and you GCs are experts can manipulate and twists "democracy" to their heats content ifthey so wish to exploit persecute and discrimiante against TCs, this is where we need safeguards to counter this risk.

What you do is that you create totally baseless and imaginary situations about violations of your human rights, in order to excuse actual and real violations of our human rights.

Here we go with the "evil" GCs theories again and the lame excuse to deny democracy from Cyprus. It is this mentality of yours that caused the conflicts. There would be no conflicts at all if you respected democracy to begin with.

No your trying to gift our country to Greece was what caused the conflict, high time you realized that fact.

How is asking for your freedom and self determination cause a conflict?
The only way this can cause a conflict is if you are attacked because you asked for your rights.

Not only there is no evidence to support your baseless imaginary scenarios, but the evidence point to the contrary. Rhodes united with Greece in 1947 and Rhodes also has a Turkish minority on it. Nothing happened to them.

Again what happened to the Turks in Crete or even the Turks in Greece you conveniently avoid these issues. Piratis you have to come to terms with the reality that neither side is white they have both made plenty of mistakes which have not allowed a Cypriots people to form a bond or grow, you still think that Greeks and GCs did no wrong when they were really the cause of the divide we have today and the last ones to reject any hope of a solution the last time it was offered. You have to take your share of the blamed without reducing it or dividing it, you did wrong by trying to push the TCs to one side and by making Cyprus hell for them. We did what we had to do and this is fight for survival.

What happened in Crete and rest of Greece during the Greek Revolution is exactly a good example of what happens when foreign rulers try to impose their will and deny to the people their self-determination. No Turk would be killed in either mainland Greece or Crete if the Turkish minorities there accepted the democratic wish of the native people for self-determination.

This is what happened in Rhodes in 1947. Rhodes united with Greece, the Turkish minority of the island accepted the democratic wish of the vast majority of people, and there was not conflict whatsoever.

First of all when you came up with Taksim Cyprus was not independent, and you had not even proposed independence. Cyprus was part of the British and earlier Ottoman empires. So how could it be fine for Cyprus to be part of the British or Ottoman empires against the will of the vast majority of Cypriots, but not OK for Cyprus to be part of Greece which is what most of the Cypriots themselves wanted?

Not only that, but uniting our island with whomever we democratically choose was in fact our right, as clearly stated by the UN resolution for decolonization which clearly states that "integration into an independent State" is one of the " three legitimate options of full self-government."
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Which came first enosis or taksim? eoka or TMT? You had and still do not have any right to turn Cyprus over to Greece we do not want it and will fight even today to stop it, when will you realize that Cyprus is not Greek it is Cypriot?
Just as you do not want any part of Cyprus to become part of Turkey we do not want to become part of Greece.

What came first was the oppression of the Cypriot people by foreign rulers. If there was no oppression then there would be no struggle from our part for freedom, and there wouldn't even be a Turkish minority on our island to begin with.

If you didn't want to be part of Greece then you shouldn't have come on island which the whole of its native population is Greek. It was your choice to come here.

Nobody forced you to live in Cyprus. On the contrary you are the ones who came on this island with the aim to enslave and exploit us.

After being ruled by foreigners for centuries we had every right for our self-determination, and self-determination also means the right to unite with whomever we democratically choose.

Union with Greece was the right of Cypriots and would violate the human rights of nobody. All you have against union with Greece is some imaginary and baseless scenarios and nothing more.

On the other hand taksim, means the ethnic cleaning of 100s of thousands of people from their homeland and a ton of other human rights violations.

And then you have the nerve to say that the only problem with partition is our "greed"?? So it our "greed" that we want to live in our own land, and not your greed that you want to steal our land? You are shameless!

You were forcing me to live as part of Greece not Cyprus, this opened the door for mass revolt as you did not consider that a large aprt of your population did not want this as they saw it their anniahalation, even today after so much suffering you still arrogantly continue the same mentality of your forefather that landed you in this mess in the first place and perpetuates division today.

You do not want to share jack shit with TCs all you want is more land, tell me I am wrongif you had the option to get rid of all the TCs and take back the whole island you would not have a second thought, you would choose as you say to complete your drem and finally convert Cyprus into a Greek island.

We didn't force you to live in Greece or any part of it, (e.g. Cyprus, Crete, Rhodes etc). You came to our island as invaders and forced your rule over us. Nobody forced you, you forced us. Get it?

What we want and we have every right for is our self-determination and this is why we revolted. (you didn't revolt, you just cooperated with foreign rulers in order to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people)

What we want is nothing more than what belongs to us: Our land, our human rights, and our self-determination. Your minority can also have your own land (but not ours), the 100% of your human rights, and your one vote each, to be used to determine the destiny of this island.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Now you went from beheading women adulteresses, to abortion and inter-marriages?

Abortion yes, a democratically elected government can ban it. Is there any human right in favor of abortion? I don't think so.
In case of inter-marriages no, it is a human right and can not be banned.

Im prviding examples where you can manipulate "democracy" and abuse your numerical advantage to our detrement, we need safeguards to guarantee our rights and our effective say in our own future.

What you do is that you create totally baseless and imaginary situations about violations of your human rights, in order to excuse actual and real violations of our human rights.

Rubbish you need to listen and address our concerns as ignoring them or making cheap excuses will not make them go away.

How is asking for your freedom and self determination cause a conflict?
The only way this can cause a conflict is if you are attacked because you asked for your rights.

Your so called freedom meant my death, your push for enosis was the end of TCs on this island, why did you not just stick to an independent Cyprus uniting both communities as one people?

What happened in Crete and rest of Greece during the Greek Revolution is exactly a good example of what happens when foreign rulers try to impose their will and deny to the people their self-determination. No Turk would be killed in either mainland Greece or Crete if the Turkish minorities there accepted the democratic wish of the native people for self-determination.

This is what happened in Rhodes in 1947. Rhodes united with Greece, the Turkish minority of the island accepted the democratic wish of the vast majority of people, and there was not conflict whatsoever.

What happened to Turks in Crete and mainland Greece?

What came first was the oppression of the Cypriot people by foreign rulers. If there was no oppression then there would be no struggle from our part for freedom, and there wouldn't even be a Turkish minority on our island to begin with.

If you didn't want to be part of Greece then you shouldn't have come on island which the whole of its native population is Greek. It was your choice to come here.

We are here now and here to stay get over it. You are stilling going on about what happened 400 years ago and ignoring what happened only 45 years agos as these events do not support your cause of turning Cyprus into a Greek island.

We didn't force you to live in Greece or any part of it, (e.g. Cyprus, Crete, Rhodes etc). You came to our island as invaders and forced your rule over us. Nobody forced you, you forced us. Get it?

What we want and we have every right for is our self-determination and this is why we revolted. (you didn't revolt, you just cooperated with foreign rulers in order to oppress the revolution of the Cypriot people)

What we want is nothing more than what belongs to us: Our land, our human rights, and our self-determination. Your minority can also have your own land (but not ours), the 100% of your human rights, and your one vote each, to be used to determine the destiny of this island.

You tried to force us to live in Greece that was the start of all our peoblems we fought to stop you and stop you we did. You want want want but you have to share with us, you cannot brush us to one side. You to can have your land back only when you realize that you have to share this island and treat us as equals under a BBF with political equality structure, I am aware you are against this compromise but your leader is currently negotiating along these lines.

[miltiades]

I can do a mean Zeimbekiko especialy afte a bottle or two
In my breif period as a professional Bouzouki player , about 4 years in all , I sometimes after a glass or two would forget what my job was and would jump on the dance floor for a GIRO , step , or 2 of zeibekiko !!
Still have my bouzouki although is battered and bruised a bit like me I suppose . My daughter took it to her school here in London years ago when they put up a show they had and it rolled off the table causing quite a lot of damage . Those were the days when my guitarist , a lovely chap called Pantelis who was such a pro , used to be so particular about tuning he would insist that we go to the quietest part of the venue , usually the loo , in order that our instruments were finely tuned .!!
Played with a small band consisting of a couple of T/C guys one on the drums and the other on the organ . Pantelis is still going on the other guys I lost touch .
Memories !!

Did you ever cross paths with Gulferi or his sons?

I recall Gulferi but only one of his sons played with him to the best of my memory. Gulferi sung in Greek too , he played mostly in Restaurants and came much later than I.
The last time I saw him was in a T/C restaurant in Streatham , I can not recall two sons but maybe my memory lets me down.

[YFred]

I can do a mean Zeimbekiko especialy afte a bottle or two
In my breif period as a professional Bouzouki player , about 4 years in all , I sometimes after a glass or two would forget what my job was and would jump on the dance floor for a GIRO , step , or 2 of zeibekiko !!
Still have my bouzouki although is battered and bruised a bit like me I suppose . My daughter took it to her school here in London years ago when they put up a show they had and it rolled off the table causing quite a lot of damage . Those were the days when my guitarist , a lovely chap called Pantelis who was such a pro , used to be so particular about tuning he would insist that we go to the quietest part of the venue , usually the loo , in order that our instruments were finely tuned .!!
Played with a small band consisting of a couple of T/C guys one on the drums and the other on the organ . Pantelis is still going on the other guys I lost touch .
Memories !!

Did you ever cross paths with Gulferi or his sons?

I recall Gulferi but only one of his sons played with him to the best of my memory. Gulferi sung in Greek too , he played mostly in Restaurants and came much later than I.
The last time I saw him was in a T/C restaurant in Streatham , I can not recall two sons but maybe my memory lets me down.

He played Violin, One of his sons played the Organ and the other played the drums.
They were big in the late 70s with weddings for Greek and Turkish.
It just occured to me that your paths may have crossed.
He released an album of old Cypriot songs and I have it.
Regards

[miltiades]

I can do a mean Zeimbekiko especialy afte a bottle or two
In my breif period as a professional Bouzouki player , about 4 years in all , I sometimes after a glass or two would forget what my job was and would jump on the dance floor for a GIRO , step , or 2 of zeibekiko !!
Still have my bouzouki although is battered and bruised a bit like me I suppose . My daughter took it to her school here in London years ago when they put up a show they had and it rolled off the table causing quite a lot of damage . Those were the days when my guitarist , a lovely chap called Pantelis who was such a pro , used to be so particular about tuning he would insist that we go to the quietest part of the venue , usually the loo , in order that our instruments were finely tuned .!!
Played with a small band consisting of a couple of T/C guys one on the drums and the other on the organ . Pantelis is still going on the other guys I lost touch .
Memories !!

Did you ever cross paths with Gulferi or his sons?

I recall Gulferi but only one of his sons played with him to the best of my memory. Gulferi sung in Greek too , he played mostly in Restaurants and came much later than I.
The last time I saw him was in a T/C restaurant in Streatham , I can not recall two sons but maybe my memory lets me down.

He played Violin, One of his sons played the Organ and the other played the drums.
They were big in the late 70s with weddings for Greek and Turkish.
It just occured to me that your paths may have crossed.
He released an album of old Cypriot songs and I have it.
Regards

I honestly remember only the boy , my music days were over late 72 early 73 , my son was born in Nov 72 and just couldn't carry on with the late nights , early mornings mostly because when we finished work most musicians used to meet up in St.Johns Wood where we would embark on having a good time. Wife didn't like me being out till early morning and the baby demanded that Dad was home !!
Did you know that most , if not all Cypriot musicians , had a brilliant rapport with each other and embraced each other as a fellow Cypriot musician , we had our differences , ...I played mostly in D minor when sober , and they played in C minor !!!!