Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

If all Greek Cypriot leaders would accept ideas like the ones you suggested why is no one sticking their neck out to make the offer.

I don't know. Probably they believe that all discussions should be made within UN.
If it was up to me I would put up the principles (like I did), then put a team of usual educated people (not politicians) from both sides into groups to discuss it deeper and then put some lawyers to form the fine details. Then I would present and explain this plan to all Cypriots, without asking the opinion of Turkey, UK, Greece, US etc.

who is going to stick their neck out and risk being condemned to hell and hand grenades etc in order to move situation forward?

Nobody cares if he is going to be "condemned to hell" and you really exaggerated the event with the grenade. Nobody is afraid to make a move, they just think that they shouldn't do such move, something that I personally disagree. Maybe I will call to a radio or TV show where some of them are guests and ask this question.

[PEACE]

This is exactly my point. What some of you want is two separate countries in one way or another and this is why you liked the Annan plan

Not two seperate countries ! We want a strong federation! Not a weak one! Solution can't be with federation like in USA ! Cos there no one is trying to get one party's rights to govern other party too or one party is not trying to clean other party ethnically ! Cos they are all same nation ! But we are Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots! I prefer to say we are all cypriots but i can't see that you are feeling like only cypriot and using being cypriot to give us minority rights! When i say "i'm a cypriot" you are saying "Yes,we are all cypriots than why you need extra rights to protect your Turkish Cypriot identity!"

Sorry my friend but i can't accept such a thing and be sure your ideas can be accepted by only 1% of Tcs !

[Piratis]

Solution can't be with federation like in USA ! Cos there no one is trying to get one party's rights to govern other party too or one party is not trying to clean other party ethnically ! Cos they are all same nation !

We are all the same nation also. In the US they have people that you can tell they are different just by looking at them from 100 meters away. They have whites, blacks, Hispanic, Asians, Christians, Jews, Muslims and people born in about every country of the world. And if you look in their history you can see what happened with the native Indians and with blacks. Similar things happened in the history of many countries.

So go give your excuses why you still illegally occupy part of Cyprus to some others, not to us. One thing is to use history as a lesson, another is to use it as an excuse.

Sorry my friend but i can't accept such a thing and be sure your ideas can be accepted by only 1% of Tcs !

Thanks for telling me. I was in doubt if I should treat TCs as compatriots or as enemies. If 99% of TC can not accept democracy and independence for our country then everything is clear. Still, I am not convinced that this is the case. Some other TCs in here said that they accept those principles.

[PEACE]

They accepted cos they don't know what you mean with democracy and human rights!

Say them what are you trying to mean !

I want a solution that will contain democracy,indepence of Cyprus,human rights too.


Explain them the human rights and democracy meaning that you understand!

[PEACE]

We are all the same nation also.

What nation?

If 99% of TC can not accept democracy and independence for our country then everything is clear. Still, I am not convinced that this is the case. Some other TCs in here said that they accept those principles.

May be i couldn't understand your democracy and human rights understanding still! Don't use general meaning words ! Give detail!

[Piratis]

They accepted cos they don't know what you mean with democracy and human rights!

Maybe you are the one who doesn't know what I mean. I already explained what I mean democracy within a federal system.

My idea of democracy human rights and independence is compatible with how most people world wide realize these terms.

In a few words, in federations the residents of each federation elect their state government which takes care of several of their internal affairs and then the citizens of the whole country elect their central government which is on top of the federal governments and is responsible for country-wide matters and international affairs.

Human rights are human rights. Type "human rights" in google to get an answer. I don't mean anything different.

Independence is again clear. Cypriots take decisions for Cyprus. If we want to give some of these decisions to some other place (e.g. EU) we do this with our free will and we are free to leave whenever we decide.

What is not clear?

[PEACE]

Maybe you are the one who doesn't know what I mean.

No,noone knows better than me ! I'll summarize my thoughts with one simple sentence ! Your human rights and democracy rights should be parallel with our rights that we won't have minority rights !

I explanied this minority rights subjects before and you know what i mean !

You want to return to Turkish Constitutional state without limitation,you don't want any limitation in your political rights in Turkish Constitutional State(TCS) such as voting,being a senator from TCS etc.,you see transition period so much without taking care of past events and fanatics in both sides,you want to get all of your properties' control back but you don't look warm taking compensation instead of some and to get some's control back!

Do you accept 24 Greek Cypriot senator from Greek Cypriot State and 24 Turkish Cypriot Senator in Senate? I'm sure not ! Cos under your mind you are looking TCs %18 and have to take %18 or at max %30 rights !
Isn't it?

Your vote and mine will be equal but there must be some limitations!
If there won't be any limitations in residence (staying and being a citizen of TCS),political rights in TCS its clear that Greek Cypriot population becomes majority in TCS too ! So ? We become a minority in TCS that can't elect any TC to senate or to other places !

I confide all my thoughts without hesitating !I want you to tell what you think without hesitating,without thinking what other TCs will think! If you think that 18% rights or max 30% rights have to given us and any thing more is too much say it ! Say "You are 18% and according to democracy you can't get more"!

[PEACE]

Have you ever think that the best solution is Republic Of Cyprus?

or different asking style...

Have you ever think that the only solution style can be like Republic Of Cyprus?

Do you think that a solution can come with the join of Turkish Cypriots to Republic Of Cyprus?

or

a solution that supposes all of us cypriot without taking care Turkish and Greek Cypriot identity and that don't take care Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot poplulation on island?

[Piratis]

I believe you haven't read this post:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=211

It answers most of what you ask.

Cos under your mind you are looking TCs %18 and have to take %18 or at max %30 rights !

What I am looking for is that every Cypriot has 100% of his rights.

You said one million times that you are not a minority. To me this equals that you do not want to live into one Cyprus with us.
Because if 200.000 TC live in the same country with 700.000 GC then their is no way that the TC will not be a minority.

If you don't want to be a minority there is only one way to achieve it: 2 separate states. If this is what you want then say it clearly and cut the crap about unity and peace.

[PEACE]

The central government will come from all Cypriots.

All cypriots? This means in central goverment there won't be political equality such as 24 senators from GCs and 24 senators from TCs at senate.

Federal:
We will have a federal system. Each community will have its own state with its own police, educational system etc. Within this state the majority of residents should always come from the equivalent community,

Which are these two community!? Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots i suppose.So at least you accepted that Tcs can govern Turkish Cypriot State.So why are you still talking about returning back as unlimited number and unlimited political rights in Turkish Cypriot Constitutional State?

If you don't want to be a minority there is only one way to achieve it: 2 separate states. If this is what you want then say it clearly and cut the crap about unity and peace.

Thanks !I got the answer ! I suppose everyone got !
In central goverment you don't accept politic equality of two communities that Annan Plan contains !

Look what i understood !
1)You accept that Turkish Cypriots can be majority in their constitutional state and can govern their internal affairs !

2)You don't accept the political equality of Tcs and Gcs in central goverment.So TCs can only have minority rights in central goverment !
This means you want a central goverment where only Greek Cypriots governs it ! This is clear ! Cos if you don't accept political equality that Annan Plan includes in central goverment of course everytime the candicates that are voted by Gcs will be elected !

I suggest everyone to look Annan Plan for central goverment's authority subjects.Annan Plan may be died but its content will never die.May be it'll come again with different name and little changes.

What I am looking for is that every Cypriot has 100% of his rights.

How you feel? Like a Cypriot or while you are saying "I'm a Cypriot" you are remembering that you are a "Greek Cypriot"!?

I can't see that majority of Gcs are feeling like really Cypriot ! "Greek" part is evertime there.

Papadopulos is talking about not Cypriot's rights in Cyprus but he is talking from Hellenism's rights in Cyprus!

You can say you didn't voted for Papadopulos but majority of Gc did!

If you don't want to be a minority there is only one way to achieve it: 2 separate states.

NO,i want a solution in Annan Plan style ! It refers a strong federation and this is not 2 seperate state!


I don't know what other Turkish Cypriot friends are thinking about my thoughts! I'll be so glad if they write here their opinion about my thoughts!
Thanks!




Last Note... Your solution style can be accepted only when everyone forgets that its Greek or Turkish and work together for Cypriots' rights Not for Hellenism's rights or Turkish rights ! I suppose this is impossible!


Ah also don't forget that if one day we start to forget we are Greek or Turkish our friends(!) USA and England will remind this to us !
If they can't be succeed may be USA will bring us "freedom and peace" like it brought to Iraq!


+ Till sovereign English bases stand there forget about "an independent Cyprus."