Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

That is correct Bulio, masks are falling. We now know very well who the nationalists are who would rather see Cyprus partitioned and destroyed than share this island with our Turkish Cypriot compatriots. Eirini-baris, we will struggle against the nationalists together. The future belongs to the forces of progress. It cannot be otherwise.

I dont think they are nationalist Bannaiot but people that truly want to see a true unification and have made many a comprimises already(land,bizonality)they really shouldnt be asked to make more.What have the t/c and turkey comprimised on?Thats why i think a partition may be better sometimes than some idotic plan that will collapse in a year and cyprus will be back to 1974 again.

[Get Real!]

Eirini-Baris, these people whose behaviour is such a disgrace, think that the word Turk is a dirty word. They are sick people but also very unfortunate, because they have been brainwashed from an early age to this stereotype behaviour. In effect, what I am saying is that they are beyond help. They have past the point of no return. Soon, they will find themselves in the dustbin of history.

So how was the seaside villa over the long weekend?

[Get Real!]

So sometimes i think its better to cut loses and move on.agree to a 70/30,80/20 75/,25 split,

I doubt Turkey would give the TCs that much land but anyway, whereabouts do you think would be a good place for them? Adana region?

[Bananiot]

So, you want to know about my villa GR? Mine does not reach that far, hardly makes it to Strovolos, have to admit.

[Get Real!]

So, you want to know about my villa GR? Mine does not reach that far, hardly makes it to Strovolos, have to admit.

It's a seaside one is it?

[Piratis]

With this kind of behaviour you can not get anything. Do you know that.? I hate to tell you but war is over you lost..just get over with.. You will get your land back when a solution is agreed. But its not occupied land that is frusturating you. Its excistence of TCs on the island which was suppose to be all yours. Am i wrong ?

The war is not over. It will be over when our land is given back to us and our self-determination and human rights respected.

We have no problem with the TC minority existing on the island. We have many other minorities on this island as well. What we have a problem is your behavior, that you continue to treat Cypriots as if we are still your Colonial subjects, and you collaborate with Turkey in order to deny to us our freedom and rights and gain Ottoman style privileges on our expense.

When you accept that all Cypriots are equal citizens, one person one vote, no racist discrimination, no Ottoman Style privileges for anybody, then we will be able to live on this island together in peace.

[Piratis]

Why would it be better for us

Im sorry sometimes i think out loud.However from the replies from certain forumers in here they seem not to want unification and if there is a unfication its seems they want it as watered down as possible to the point that any agreement on unification will collapse at the first hurdle the new "country" faces.

So sometimes i think its better to cut loses and move on.agree to a 70/30,80/20 75/,25 split,try to get the t/c state on fast track to the EU try to minimize turkeys role in the new northern state as much as possible and in the future if it is in the best interest of the two parties unify under one state.

I agree with you that the partition that people like Bananiot want is the worst kind of partition for us. Not only they give 29% of our country to the Turks, but they also give to the Turks control over the whole of Cyprus. We have already rejected this kind of partition. Changing the name of this partition and calling it "unification" can only fool the idiots, and the majority of the Cypriots are neither idiots, nor they have any desire to capitulate to the Turks.

What I don't agree is that another form of partition would have any prospects for future unification and that it could be an option for us. If we accept such partition then Turkey will not need to pretend anymore, and her control over north Cyprus will be even more obvious and direct.

Given the circumstances today we have only one option. To not make any additional compromises, but to instead insist on something that will be much better than Annan plan. We have already rejected the AP, so there is no point on bringing back something which is the same or worst. Everybody can understand the logic of this position.

The greedy Turks will continue to want more, and therefore there will be no disguised partition deal.

This way Republic of Cyprus will continue to be the legal owner of the whole of Cyprus and the one and only recognized state on the island, something which means that:

1) The Turks will get to illegally keep 37% of our land, but we will legally keep the 100% of everything else, like representation, EU etc.
2) The Turks will not be able to develop much and use our own land to compete seriously with us in any major industry.
3) We would not surrender our rights, which means that our refugees can continue to taking their cases, and winning, in the ECHR.
4) The Orams case shows that we will be able to directly prosecute and convict those foreign scumbags that "buy" our land in the occupied areas.

Today we might not have the power to militarily protect the sovereignty of our country, but be sure there are many other ways to continue fighting against the invaders, and that is exactly what we will do. Furthermore, legally keeping the whole Cyprus as part of RoC, could be even more valuable in the future under a different balance of power.

The war is far from over. Let the Turks have illusions that they won it.

[YFred]

You are pretending to be rather naive. The words "Bir Turk Dunyaya Bedeldir", was said during the period when The Yanks, British, Russians, Greeks, Italians and a few others descended on Turkey in it weakest moment. What a man to come along and pull a country together and defeat the major powers of the time. With what? Courage!

Yes YFred, I know! And because Anatolia also today, continues to be invaded by the Yanks, British, Russians, Greeks, Italians and a few others, that is why the "one Turk equals the whole world" slogan is posing on many mountains, buildings, and schools of Turkey, in order to defeat all those invaders! I know!! It has absolutely nothing to do with Turkish nationalism, which is not institutionalized at all in Turkey and is not promoted at all by the Kemalist system! It is only to confront the invaders, the reason it is used today!

As you refuse to answer the last question,

Which question?

I’ll try this one. I keep hearing you say, TCs were not touched by Sampson. It was an excuse Turkey used to invade. The Greek ambassador said it and also a lot of moderate GC’s said it just after 74, “Greece was responsible for 1974”

For the sake of argument, let us assume that the above is not relevant.

You are very confusing! What is the accurate and the "relevant," that the "TCs were not touched by Sampson and, it was an excuse Turkey used to invade," or that “Greece was responsible for 1974?” You are very confusing!

Can you tell me what was the coup of 74 for. What was their mission and vision. If it wasn’t for violent enosis, then after overthrowing Makarios and killing all the GC opposition, what were they going to do with the TC’s. Were they just going to ask them nicely to join with Greece and assuming that the TC’s said no, what was Sampson planning?

YFred, what the coup was about, who committed it and what their mission and vision was, it is a well known fact to anyone who was not lazy enough to have investigated those events, and did not rely instead on easy slogans and propaganda to form a cheap opinion, like most Turks and TCs had chosen to do!

Now, are you suggesting that because there was a coup by the national guard to overthrow Makarios, and because the Greek Cypriots resisted it and there were deaths on both sides; that this entitled Turkey to invade by sending 100 fighter jets to start bombing all over Cyprus, and another 50 battle ships to land 40,000 troops, occupy half of Cyprus, ethnically cleanse the indigenous population of the northern part, the GCs, occupy the area, deny the refugees the return to their lands, usurp their homes and properties, and bring its own people from Turkey to colonize the occupied north? Is this what you are trying to suggest, that Turkey was legitimized in any way possible to do any of all the above that it committed in 1974 and after wards? Is this your suggestion? If so, how many military coups there existed in Turkey, and how many times the Americans, the Russians or any other more powerful state have invaded Turkey, because of those coups against the elected governments of Turkey? Can you tell me how many, if any, and why none? Can you tell me how many times another country invaded and occupied Turkey, for violating the Kurds rights? In your little theory, Turkey should have been invaded more than 100 times by now, because every now and then there is military coup there, and the violation of the Kurd’ rights and their harassment, every time they have to celebrate a national holiday or demonstrate for their rights, is an ongoing phenomenon. Why do you not complain that Turkey is not invaded, since you support that Cyprus's invasion was a necessity and a right thing to have done, because of the mere speculation that the TCs would have been affected?

What Turkey does in Turkey I have never agreed with, however as I have no right to vote there and there is nothing I can do, I do not worry about her. My main worry is my family and Cyprus in that order.

Now its strange that I spent 9 years in Lurucina primary school and Secondary school combined (Same timescale as N Kizilyurek I might add), and do not remember ever hearing a teacher or a student referring to Kemalism or Pan-Turkishism in the classroom or privately.

Yes I agree that there was an attempt to Turkify the TC’s, but I think you will agree that they failed miserably in Lurucina and many other parts of Cyprus, Kaleburnu, Limnidi comes to mind. The education system promoted it but most teachers ignored it. Even in the darkest days of 63 to 67, when we gathered in front of these statues, It was out of necessity, to have strength to survive the onslaught of enosis. Besides who tied the TCs hands behind their backs and who gave them food. I know your answer you don’t have to answer it. Try tying your own hands behind your back, see if it can be done. The Enclaves and the reaction of TMT were direct result of RoC hidden enosis policy from 1960 onwards. To this day Talat cannot stand up to Turkey on symbolism of so called Kemalism in Cyprus, because of the RoC policy on direct trade with the TCs. TCs are survivors and will do what is necessary and practical to achieve it. Theoretical correct behaviour does not feed stomachs.

You are totally wrong, if you equate a few flags and statues with phrases with TC Kemalism. Have you noticed how many and what kinds of people turn out for the official celebrations for 20th July, 19 May, 30th Aug, and 29th Oct. There is your proof of TC views, vision and wishes. TCs long ago came to the position of today in terms of the Cyprus solution, but of course they weren’t always vocal. All that changed when 60000 people stood outside President’s palace calling him to open the access to the south. He obliged. Did the officials or the Kemalists want such a thing?

On this forum, there is very few so called Kemailst, and a hell of a lot more Hellenist, and I don’t mean the dictionary meaning of Hellenism, but the Makarios and Grivas’s meaning of Hellenism. The one comfort we have is that all nationalists are in the minority both in the north and south.

Can you say the same about Hellenism and GCs?
What is being taught to the GC children in schools?
Do they know their real history, particularly since 1960?
Do they know the atrocities committed in their name?
Hell they do!

I am glad Kizilyurek has finally come out, because he has criticised the TCs quite extensively in the past and I could not understand why the GCs did not receive same such attention from him. I thought he applied the usual practical rules of survival as he worked for RoC, but I am so glad he has come out of his shell now.

[Byron]

[quote="YFred"]

On this forum, there is very few so called Kemailst, and a hell of a lot more Hellenist, and I don’t mean the dictionary meaning of Hellenism, but the Makarios and Grivas’s meaning of Hellenism.

Please clarify what you mean by Makarios and Grivas's meaning of Hellenism.

[YFred]

Do you really not know?
Read the Akritas plan properly, between the lines, and if you still don't know, I will translate.