Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Werent they the first settlers on the island . As far as I know and history suggests they were...

Which history suggests this? Which are your sources?

The first written source shows Cyprus under Assyrian rule

I am trying to improve my knowledge because its too complicated for me many empires ,kingdoms, different Greeks fighting for Cyprus..Not trying to make a point that you make the island Greek. I respect the Greek existence in the island for hundreads of years...

You keep confusing foreign rulers with the people of Cyprus. The Assyrians did not settle in Cyprus (not in any significant numbers at least), and they did not create their own settlements on the island.

According to some theories the Assyrians were the first foreign rulers and forced the Cypriot kings of the Cypriot city kingdoms to be subjected to them and maybe pay tributes to them. Thats about it. This happened at around 700BC, many centuries after the Greeks settled on the island.

Thank you for the info Piratis...I will ask you one last question...Where from TCs descend..Were they just send to Cyprus in an unbiased way?

Can you clarify your question please? I am not sure what you mean by "send to Cyprus in an unbiased way".

The TCs descend? It appears that when the Ottomans conquered Cyprus they brought to the island some 10s of thousands of Muslim Settlers from Anatolia. Personally I doubt that all (or even most) of those Muslims were actually Turks. Then according to some sources, some Greek Cypriots and also Latins became Muslims during Ottoman rule in order to be treated better and pay less taxes.

Then at some point around 1900s, some in the newly formed Turkey decided that all Muslims should be called Turks. They did this in Turkey itself, and they applied the same for the Muslim minority in Cyprus. Many of those Muslims didn't even speak Turkish, but had Greek as their native language! And yet they were all grouped together and labeled "Turkish Cypriots", and that is how the TC minority was created.

Later on the Turkish policy was to remove anything non-Turkish from their newly formed "Turkish Cypriot" community, so they prohibited to these people to speak Greek, and forced them to fully Turkify.

TCs were talking Turkish at those times, Piratis. They were using arabic alphabet when writing until early 1930s. Then it was changed to Turkish alphabet.

I am not talking about the alphabet. At the time I am talking about there was not such thing as a "TC". There were Muslims from various ethnic backgrounds, who were either brought to Cyprus from Anatolia, or were Greek/Latin Cypriots who became Muslims. Many of them didn't even speak Turkish.

I believe that even some TCs in this forum have said at times that some of their grandparents didn't speak Turkish or had Turkish as a second language and the first language was Greek.

[insan]

Werent they the first settlers on the island . As far as I know and history suggests they were...

Which history suggests this? Which are your sources?

The first written source shows Cyprus under Assyrian rule

I am trying to improve my knowledge because its too complicated for me many empires ,kingdoms, different Greeks fighting for Cyprus..Not trying to make a point that you make the island Greek. I respect the Greek existence in the island for hundreads of years...

You keep confusing foreign rulers with the people of Cyprus. The Assyrians did not settle in Cyprus (not in any significant numbers at least), and they did not create their own settlements on the island.

According to some theories the Assyrians were the first foreign rulers and forced the Cypriot kings of the Cypriot city kingdoms to be subjected to them and maybe pay tributes to them. Thats about it. This happened at around 700BC, many centuries after the Greeks settled on the island.

Thank you for the info Piratis...I will ask you one last question...Where from TCs descend..Were they just send to Cyprus in an unbiased way?

Can you clarify your question please? I am not sure what you mean by "send to Cyprus in an unbiased way".

The TCs descend? It appears that when the Ottomans conquered Cyprus they brought to the island some 10s of thousands of Muslim Settlers from Anatolia. Personally I doubt that all (or even most) of those Muslims were actually Turks. Then according to some sources, some Greek Cypriots and also Latins became Muslims during Ottoman rule in order to be treated better and pay less taxes.

Then at some point around 1900s, some in the newly formed Turkey decided that all Muslims should be called Turks. They did this in Turkey itself, and they applied the same for the Muslim minority in Cyprus. Many of those Muslims didn't even speak Turkish, but had Greek as their native language! And yet they were all grouped together and labeled "Turkish Cypriots", and that is how the TC minority was created.

Later on the Turkish policy was to remove anything non-Turkish from their newly formed "Turkish Cypriot" community, so they prohibited to these people to speak Greek, and forced them to fully Turkify.

TCs were talking Turkish at those times, Piratis. They were using arabic alphabet when writing until early 1930s. Then it was changed to Turkish alphabet.

I am not talking about the alphabet. At the time I am talking about there was not such thing as a "TC". There were Muslims from various ethnic backgrounds, who were either brought to Cyprus from Anatolia, or were Greek/Latin Cypriots who became Muslims. Many of them didn't even speak Turkish.

I believe that even some TCs in this forum have said at times that some of their grandparents didn't speak Turkish or had Turkish as a second language and the first language was Greek.

It is true that Ottoman Turks were from various ethnic backgrounds. In 1 or 2 villages, such as Lurijina Ottoman muslims were talking Greek better than Turkish, true. In mix villages, both the Ottoman Muslims and Orthodox Christians were talking both Turkish and Greek fairly good. Afterwards the foundation of ROT, the Turkish nationalism wave began spreading among Ottoman Muslims thus Ottoman Muslims began identifying themselves as Turks or Turkish Cypriots.

As Ottoman Turks were identified as Ottoman muslims before Turkish nationalism arrived to Cyprus. GCs of Cyprus were also identified as Orthodox Christians before Greek nationalism arrived to Cyprus. In my opinion, the structure and working mechanism of the legislative assembly which founded by Brits by reqest of Ottoman Muslims, for 2 religious communities to govern themselves was fair and balanced when the then circumstances taken into consideration. The reason of the abrogation of the legislative assembly in 1931 was the clash of the national interests of 2 communities.

On the other hand in 1930s there was also an alternative movement. The support and reproduction of articles by the Greek Cypriot newspapers like “Phonitis Kyprou” and “Alithia”. These articles were defending the friendship between the two communities in Cyprus and between Greece and Turkey, written and published in the “Masum Millet” newspaper by Mehmet Rifat Efendi, (an advocate who was an opponent of Munir Bey, the Turkish Evkaf delegate, and a loyal supporter of the British colonial administration.)


A JOINT INITIATIVE FOR AUTONOMY

We observe the joint struggle of Greek and Turkish Cypriots for common political aims even during the oppressive period which started with Governor Palmer. For example the “Ses” newspaper in 1937 under the title “Political Association” gave us the following information from the “Eleftheria” newspaper:“After the abrogation of the Decree of defence, the first movement seen in the political life of Cyprus, is the initiative taken for the formation of a joint political association by the Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots. As we heard, some thinkers amongst the Greek Cypriot community led the formation of this association and after settling some issues, started the activities. As we read in the news the issues settled can be summarised as follows:

1. Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots with a secondary education may become members by paying a small annual contribution.

2. These members will elect an Administrative Council consisting of 5 Turkish Cypriots and 7 Greek Cypriots.

3. The meetings of the Association will be held in one of the existing social clubs.

4. The association will deal with all the administrative and political affairs related to Cyprus.

Nevertheless, after the ww2, Greek bros began to wave goodbye TCs by telling us they were preparing to unite Cyprus with Greece... u know the rest of the story.. Then came fascist Grivas and EOKA ... followed by partition screams by TCs...

I'm not accusing any community or any person; even fascist Grivas regarding what they had done or caused. Everything had been carried out depending the universal, national and local movements, actions and events... Our historical events led us today's situation. In my opinion there r 3 options to choose and solve Cyprus problem.

1- If GC commnity genuinely accepts TC community as a "politically equal" state partner under a bi-zonal, bi-comunal federal state.

2- If TC community genuinely accepts to be considered as a muslim minority of Cyprus under a unitary state.

3- If both communities genuinely accepts the official partition of Cyprus.

My choice is number 1, if not possible number 3.

[DT.]

1- If GC commnity genuinely accepts TC community as a "politically equal" state partner under a bi-zonal, bi-comunal federal state.

2- If TC community genuinely accepts to be considered as a muslim minority of Cyprus under a unitary state.

3- If both communities genuinely accepts the official partition of Cyprus.

My choice is number 1, if not possible number 3.

Are you compromising anything in either one?

[YFred]

You are pretending to be rather naive. The words "Bir Turk Dunyaya Bedeldir", was said during the period when The Yanks, British, Russians, Greeks, Italians and a few others descended on Turkey in it weakest moment. What a man to come along and pull a country together and defeat the major powers of the time. With what? Courage!

Yes YFred, I know! And because Anatolia also today, continues to be invaded by the Yanks, British, Russians, Greeks, Italians and a few others, that is why the "one Turk equals the whole world" slogan is posing on many mountains, buildings, and schools of Turkey, in order to defeat all those invaders! I know!! It has absolutely nothing to do with Turkish nationalism, which is not institutionalized at all in Turkey and is not promoted at all by the Kemalist system! It is only to confront the invaders, the reason it is used today!

As you refuse to answer the last question,

Which question?

I’ll try this one. I keep hearing you say, TCs were not touched by Sampson. It was an excuse Turkey used to invade. The Greek ambassador said it and also a lot of moderate GC’s said it just after 74, “Greece was responsible for 1974”

For the sake of argument, let us assume that the above is not relevant.

You are very confusing! What is the accurate and the "relevant," that the "TCs were not touched by Sampson and, it was an excuse Turkey used to invade," or that “Greece was responsible for 1974?” You are very confusing!

Can you tell me what was the coup of 74 for. What was their mission and vision. If it wasn’t for violent enosis, then after overthrowing Makarios and killing all the GC opposition, what were they going to do with the TC’s. Were they just going to ask them nicely to join with Greece and assuming that the TC’s said no, what was Sampson planning?

YFred, what the coup was about, who committed it and what their mission and vision was, it is a well known fact to anyone who was not lazy enough to have investigated those events, and did not rely instead on easy slogans and propaganda to form a cheap opinion, like most Turks and TCs had chosen to do!

Now, are you suggesting that because there was a coup by the national guard to overthrow Makarios, and because the Greek Cypriots resisted it and there were deaths on both sides; that this entitled Turkey to invade by sending 100 fighter jets to start bombing all over Cyprus, and another 50 battle ships to land 40,000 troops, occupy half of Cyprus, ethnically cleanse the indigenous population of the northern part, the GCs, occupy the area, deny the refugees the return to their lands, usurp their homes and properties, and bring its own people from Turkey to colonize the occupied north? Is this what you are trying to suggest, that Turkey was legitimized in any way possible to do any of all the above that it committed in 1974 and after wards? Is this your suggestion? If so, how many military coups there existed in Turkey, and how many times the Americans, the Russians or any other more powerful state have invaded Turkey, because of those coups against the elected governments of Turkey? Can you tell me how many, if any, and why none? Can you tell me how many times another country invaded and occupied Turkey, for violating the Kurds rights? In your little theory, Turkey should have been invaded more than 100 times by now, because every now and then there is military coup there, and the violation of the Kurd’ rights and their harassment, every time they have to celebrate a national holiday or demonstrate for their rights, is an ongoing phenomenon. Why do you not complain that Turkey is not invaded, since you support that Cyprus's invasion was a necessity and a right thing to have done, because of the mere speculation that the TCs would have been affected?

I found the answer; they were going to hold a tiddlywinks competition. That’s what the official records say.

[Bananiot]

Basically the Kurds and/or the Armenians were unlucky for they had no big brother to protect and safeguard them. We were unlucky for our brother was not as big as the brother of the enemy. This is ridiculous talk. Get a grip on youself and read "Το δίκαιο της πυγμής", you might learn something, who knows.

[Ierini-Baris]

Werent they the first settlers on the island . As far as I know and history suggests they were...

Which history suggests this? Which are your sources?

The first written source shows Cyprus under Assyrian rule

I am trying to improve my knowledge because its too complicated for me many empires ,kingdoms, different Greeks fighting for Cyprus..Not trying to make a point that you make the island Greek. I respect the Greek existence in the island for hundreads of years...

You keep confusing foreign rulers with the people of Cyprus. The Assyrians did not settle in Cyprus (not in any significant numbers at least), and they did not create their own settlements on the island.

According to some theories the Assyrians were the first foreign rulers and forced the Cypriot kings of the Cypriot city kingdoms to be subjected to them and maybe pay tributes to them. Thats about it. This happened at around 700BC, many centuries after the Greeks settled on the island.

Thank you for the info Piratis...I will ask you one last question...Where from TCs descend..Were they just send to Cyprus in an unbiased way?

Can you clarify your question please? I am not sure what you mean by "send to Cyprus in an unbiased way".

The TCs descend? It appears that when the Ottomans conquered Cyprus they brought to the island some 10s of thousands of Muslim Settlers from Anatolia. Personally I doubt that all (or even most) of those Muslims were actually Turks. Then according to some sources, some Greek Cypriots and also Latins became Muslims during Ottoman rule in order to be treated better and pay less taxes.

Then at some point around 1900s, some in the newly formed Turkey decided that all Muslims should be called Turks. They did this in Turkey itself, and they applied the same for the Muslim minority in Cyprus. Many of those Muslims didn't even speak Turkish, but had Greek as their native language! And yet they were all grouped together and labeled "Turkish Cypriots", and that is how the TC minority was created.

Later on the Turkish policy was to remove anything non-Turkish from their newly formed "Turkish Cypriot" community, so they prohibited to these people to speak Greek, and forced them to fully Turkify.

Well Piratis I guess you are only interested in mighty Greek history...By unbiased I mean on chance..No Most of the TCs were Turkmens exiled to Cyprus by Ottoman Empire who were partisan of the caliph ali. They were also prohibited to continiue their services by seperating the families. Did you ever think why TCS are not religious or do not go to mosque ?

Becasue caliph ali was killed in mosque. So Turkmen around Anatolia was assimilated by Ottomans in Cyprus but they were always Turks( majority) and we speak Turkish that has similarity to Turkish used in old times by Turkmens..We were an exiled assimilated community that is why we do not want to be minority ;; get assimilated neither by Turkey nor by GCs ...We want to live on this island peacefully because for the first itme we have a chance to have complete freedom...

[Piratis]

Werent they the first settlers on the island . As far as I know and history suggests they were...

Which history suggests this? Which are your sources?

The first written source shows Cyprus under Assyrian rule

I am trying to improve my knowledge because its too complicated for me many empires ,kingdoms, different Greeks fighting for Cyprus..Not trying to make a point that you make the island Greek. I respect the Greek existence in the island for hundreads of years...

You keep confusing foreign rulers with the people of Cyprus. The Assyrians did not settle in Cyprus (not in any significant numbers at least), and they did not create their own settlements on the island.

According to some theories the Assyrians were the first foreign rulers and forced the Cypriot kings of the Cypriot city kingdoms to be subjected to them and maybe pay tributes to them. Thats about it. This happened at around 700BC, many centuries after the Greeks settled on the island.

Thank you for the info Piratis...I will ask you one last question...Where from TCs descend..Were they just send to Cyprus in an unbiased way?

Can you clarify your question please? I am not sure what you mean by "send to Cyprus in an unbiased way".

The TCs descend? It appears that when the Ottomans conquered Cyprus they brought to the island some 10s of thousands of Muslim Settlers from Anatolia. Personally I doubt that all (or even most) of those Muslims were actually Turks. Then according to some sources, some Greek Cypriots and also Latins became Muslims during Ottoman rule in order to be treated better and pay less taxes.

Then at some point around 1900s, some in the newly formed Turkey decided that all Muslims should be called Turks. They did this in Turkey itself, and they applied the same for the Muslim minority in Cyprus. Many of those Muslims didn't even speak Turkish, but had Greek as their native language! And yet they were all grouped together and labeled "Turkish Cypriots", and that is how the TC minority was created.

Later on the Turkish policy was to remove anything non-Turkish from their newly formed "Turkish Cypriot" community, so they prohibited to these people to speak Greek, and forced them to fully Turkify.

Well Piratis I guess you are only interested in mighty Greek history...By unbiased I mean on chance..No Most of the TCs were Turkmens exiled to Cyprus by Ottoman Empire who were partisan of the caliph ali. They were also prohibited to continiue their services by seperating the families. Did you ever think why TCS are not religious or do not go to mosque ?

Becasue caliph ali was killed in mosque. So Turkmen around Anatolia was assimilated by Ottomans in Cyprus but they were always Turks( majority) and we speak Turkish that has similarity to Turkish used in old times by Turkmens..We were an exiled assimilated community that is why we do not want to be minority ;; get assimilated neither by Turkey nor by GCs ...We want to live on this island peacefully because for the first itme we have a chance to have complete freedom...

On this island you are a minority. It is not our fault if Ottomans exiled you or whatever else you claim. If you have a problem with what Ottomans did, you should solve it with Turkey. Imagine if after the Turkish invasion ethnically cleansed us from north part of Cyprus we took the lands of the Armenians and Latins to cover some of our losses.

No part of our island is going to be gifted to anybody. Your minority is welcomed to stay on this island as equal Cypriot citizens. We have other minorities in Cyprus as well, and the Armenians in particular also came to Cyprus to avoid genocide in Turkey. We live peacefully with all other minorities and we can do it with you as well. But if you want to take part of our island to make it Turkish, then that means war, not peace.

[halil]

thanks ......

we do not want to be minority ;; get assimilated neither by Turkey nor by GCs ...We want to live on this island peacefully because for the first itme we have a chance to have complete freedom

[Get Real!]

We were an exiled assimilated community that is why we do not want to be minority ;; get assimilated neither by Turkey nor by GCs ...We want to live on this island peacefully because for the first itme we have a chance to have complete freedom...

In 1571 the Ottomans assimilated the indigenous Cypriots without asking them if that’s what they wanted! Some 400 years later, remnants of this uninvited and uncivilized lot now have the audacity to demand “peace” and “freedom” on OUR land, but of course what you selfishly and ignorantly want and what you’ll get are two different things… in the indigenous Cypriot language we call it the largest of the three!

[Ierini-Baris]

Werent they the first settlers on the island . As far as I know and history suggests they were...

Which history suggests this? Which are your sources?

The first written source shows Cyprus under Assyrian rule

I am trying to improve my knowledge because its too complicated for me many empires ,kingdoms, different Greeks fighting for Cyprus..Not trying to make a point that you make the island Greek. I respect the Greek existence in the island for hundreads of years...

You keep confusing foreign rulers with the people of Cyprus. The Assyrians did not settle in Cyprus (not in any significant numbers at least), and they did not create their own settlements on the island.

According to some theories the Assyrians were the first foreign rulers and forced the Cypriot kings of the Cypriot city kingdoms to be subjected to them and maybe pay tributes to them. Thats about it. This happened at around 700BC, many centuries after the Greeks settled on the island.

Thank you for the info Piratis...I will ask you one last question...Where from TCs descend..Were they just send to Cyprus in an unbiased way?

Can you clarify your question please? I am not sure what you mean by "send to Cyprus in an unbiased way".

The TCs descend? It appears that when the Ottomans conquered Cyprus they brought to the island some 10s of thousands of Muslim Settlers from Anatolia. Personally I doubt that all (or even most) of those Muslims were actually Turks. Then according to some sources, some Greek Cypriots and also Latins became Muslims during Ottoman rule in order to be treated better and pay less taxes.

Then at some point around 1900s, some in the newly formed Turkey decided that all Muslims should be called Turks. They did this in Turkey itself, and they applied the same for the Muslim minority in Cyprus. Many of those Muslims didn't even speak Turkish, but had Greek as their native language! And yet they were all grouped together and labeled "Turkish Cypriots", and that is how the TC minority was created.

Later on the Turkish policy was to remove anything non-Turkish from their newly formed "Turkish Cypriot" community, so they prohibited to these people to speak Greek, and forced them to fully Turkify.

Well Piratis I guess you are only interested in mighty Greek history...By unbiased I mean on chance..No Most of the TCs were Turkmens exiled to Cyprus by Ottoman Empire who were partisan of the caliph ali. They were also prohibited to continiue their services by seperating the families. Did you ever think why TCS are not religious or do not go to mosque ?

Becasue caliph ali was killed in mosque. So Turkmen around Anatolia was assimilated by Ottomans in Cyprus but they were always Turks( majority) and we speak Turkish that has similarity to Turkish used in old times by Turkmens..We were an exiled assimilated community that is why we do not want to be minority ;; get assimilated neither by Turkey nor by GCs ...We want to live on this island peacefully because for the first itme we have a chance to have complete freedom...

On this island you are a minority. It is not our fault if Ottomans exiled you or whatever else you claim. If you have a problem with what Ottomans did, you should solve it with Turkey. Imagine if after the Turkish invasion ethnically cleansed us from north part of Cyprus we took the lands of the Armenians and Latins to cover some of our losses.

No part of our island is going to be gifted to anybody. Your minority is welcomed to stay on this island as equal Cypriot citizens. We have other minorities in Cyprus as well, and the Armenians in particular also came to Cyprus to avoid genocide in Turkey. We live peacefully with all other minorities and we can do it with you as well. But if you want to take part of our island to make it Turkish, then that means war, not peace.

How did you get to the point we are trying to make the island Turkish ? I have never said that ? You can not compare as with Armenians or Latines or Maronites ( who are not that happy with ROC by the way ).. A poupulaton around 20 % is not called a minority ..As long as you keep calling TCs minority or others a solution is not possible. Lands and everythingelse is not that important but being referred as minority is something no TC will accept.

I guess you are still too angry and mention war out of no where. I thought your thirst for war was over in 1974 when many innocent people died because of Greek and Turkish nationalists...