Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

I say ... the TCs have too much say, and they should just accept they made a big error, and sit quietly in the background, whilst the RoC negotiates with Turkey, to get us all out of this mess, in which the wayward TCs have gotten us into ....

U misapprehend... There's no difference of opinion between TC leadership and Turkish leadership; plus the masses supporting them... We call it perfect harmony.

Objecting to the fascist Turks is not harmony, unless you are an unfeeling pachyderm

Yeah, true the left wing TCs only object to fascist Turks and fascist Hellenes; besides all fascists of the planet earth; not the rest. Massive junk covering all around ur brain and heart don't let u to
even feel just a lil bit of what's going on.

Insan ... you are not a left-wing Turk .... I had one as a "friend" once ... and he is probably dead now because "left-wing" and "Turks" are mutually exclusive!

The only way to make u happy is to pretend as if i agree with u. Ok, beatiful young lady... u r the center of ultimate truth, we r all coward liers, we r poor, pathetic creatures, u r a goddess. Happy?

[Oracle]

I say ... the TCs have too much say, and they should just accept they made a big error, and sit quietly in the background, whilst the RoC negotiates with Turkey, to get us all out of this mess, in which the wayward TCs have gotten us into ....

U misapprehend... There's no difference of opinion between TC leadership and Turkish leadership; plus the masses supporting them... We call it perfect harmony.

Objecting to the fascist Turks is not harmony, unless you are an unfeeling pachyderm

Yeah, true the left wing TCs only object to fascist Turks and fascist Hellenes; besides all fascists of the planet earth; not the rest. Massive junk covering all around ur brain and heart don't let u to
even feel just a lil bit of what's going on.

Insan ... you are not a left-wing Turk .... I had one as a "friend" once ... and he is probably dead now because "left-wing" and "Turks" are mutually exclusive!

The only way to make u happy is to pretend as if i agree with u. Ok, beatiful young lady... u r the center of ultimate truth, we r all coward liers, we r poor, pathetic creatures, u r a goddess. Happy?

No insan, don' pretend! Just open your heart ... AND mind! See that you are the invaders, and the only way to end this Catch 22 is for you, who are admittedly the stronger (by virtue of Turkish numbers); you are in the wrong, to want to subvert this tiny, last vestige of native GC - Cypriots .....

[Kuruovali]

If this 'committee' was true and honest they should start by questioning/criticising the motives of the EU in allowing the GC south entry into the EU

There was no such thing as a "GC south entry" and that's why your feeble mind can't handle it. The "Republic of Cyprus" entered the EU with the UN's blessing after the advice of four experts they hired to research the matter. There's a report out there... find it, read it, and weep.

...and the ramifications that this would have upon any subsequent 'peace' talks.

What ramifications other than the fact that Turkey got rooted left, right, and center because she now needs Cyprus’ approval to join the EU? That’s a BLESSING for Cypriots and a pie in the face for traitors.

Get Real, as it currently stands there is a place in Northern Cyprus not really concerned what it is called but for the time being it goes by the name of the 'Turkish Republic of Northen Cyprus' home to the Turkish Cypriots. As you are aware the GC's have no control/say over Northern Cyprus. I and 100million other people of Turkish origin don't give two monkeys about what you and the rest believe. As for weeping we stopped weeping in 1974 a day we TC's and you GC's will never forget!

As for 'traitors' who exactly are you referring to? I don't want to start going over old ground but as you know we TC's were never part of the 'ROC' the GC's made certain of that.

[Murataga]

Come on Miltiades, you are better informed than that.
In the EU each country to their own. One country can block any law or process it likes. Totally undemocratic.
UK - We changed to 3 parliments where Everyone has a say in London and yet English have no say in Wales or Scotland.
The welsh and the scotts have two votes on account that they are a minority.
And to add insult to injury, we bankroll them from London. Where is the fairness in that?

Very simple. There is no one man one vote which adheres to your principle of democracy.

There moving towards confederation.

Fred I think you ought to study the fundamental principles of Democracy.
Here is one definition of democracy that holds true in all democratic states , and please note that it does not extend to a union of nations that come together as democratic nations each equal to one another regardless of size , wealth or power , any other method would be totalitarian and despotic.
Here is what democracy is all about :The political orientation of those who favour government by the people or by their elected representatives
a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them .
Majority rule: the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group , DO PLEASE NOTICE " THE WHOLE GROUP MEANING POLITICAL GROUP .

We never ever agreed to be in a state governed on the principle of majority rule with the GCs in Cyprus. We (and you) agreed to be in a state governed based on the political equality of the two communities. The U.N. and the rest of the world acknowledge that there are two communities with political equality in Cyprus. The RoC was not established based on the majority rule of the GCs and its constitution (before you altered it with the "doctrine of necessity") was not constructed based on the majority rule. I don`t know what your leaders are feeding you with in domestic politics but to the world they too, since 1979, are stating that there exists two politically communities and the solution to the Cyprus problem will be based on a bi-coomunal, bi-zonal federation with the political equlaity of the two communities.

Do you know why? It is because there exists no historical, political or ethical premise granting the GCs the right to extend their majority rule over TCs on this island. There never was, and there never will be. The sooner you deal with these facts as a community the better for all. You have been treated as the nation of this island for far too long and you are just flipping out against the fact that it is about to expire. Deal with it.

[miltiades]

Come on Miltiades, you are better informed than that.
In the EU each country to their own. One country can block any law or process it likes. Totally undemocratic.
UK - We changed to 3 parliments where Everyone has a say in London and yet English have no say in Wales or Scotland.
The welsh and the scotts have two votes on account that they are a minority.
And to add insult to injury, we bankroll them from London. Where is the fairness in that?

Very simple. There is no one man one vote which adheres to your principle of democracy.

There moving towards confederation.

Fred I think you ought to study the fundamental principles of Democracy.
Here is one definition of democracy that holds true in all democratic states , and please note that it does not extend to a union of nations that come together as democratic nations each equal to one another regardless of size , wealth or power , any other method would be totalitarian and despotic.
Here is what democracy is all about :The political orientation of those who favour government by the people or by their elected representatives
a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them .
Majority rule: the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group , DO PLEASE NOTICE " THE WHOLE GROUP MEANING POLITICAL GROUP .

We never ever agreed to be in a state governed on the principle of majority rule with the GCs in Cyprus. We (and you) agreed to be in a state governed based on the political equality of the two communities. The U.N. and the rest of the world acknowledge that there are two communities with political equality in Cyprus. The RoC was not established based on the majority rule of the GCs and its constitution (before you altered it with the "doctrine of necessity") was not constructed based on the majority rule. I don`t know what your leaders are feeding you with in domestic politics but to the world they too, since 1979, are stating that there exists two politically communities and the solution to the Cyprus problem will be based on a bi-coomunal, bi-zonal federation with the political equlaity of the two communities.

Do you know why? It is because there exists no historical, political or ethical premise granting the GCs the right to extend their majority rule over TCs on this island. There never was, and there never will be. The sooner you deal with these facts as a community the better for all. You have been treated as the nation of this island for far too long and you are just flipping out against the fact that it is about to expire. Deal with it.

Murataga, what gave or gives you the notion that any Cypriot either G/C or one of the thousands of T/Cs that recognize the RoC and demonstrate against the Turkish occupation of the Northern part of Cyprus , is in any way or form "flipping out " against the "fact" that the RoC is about to expire ??
The RoC IS the only nation of Cyprus , the occupied part is ruled by the occupying power , the world knows it and an ever increasing number of T/Cs are waking up to the realities and making their voices heard. The 80 thousand or so T/Cs remaining on the island will in no time be swallowed up by this third world nation and they are reacting against their continued extinction.
If on the other hand you think that the number of the RoC days are numbered in view of an agreement soon to be reached let me assure you that unless Turkey abandons her self awarded right of intervention on this island , even extreme moderates such as I will reject any forthcoming agreement which legalizes Turkeys right to intervene .
The majority and minority issue does not concern me one bit , what concerns me is the creation of a Turkish or a Greek state within my nations borders. My nation is one trillion percent Cyprus and all Cypriots irrespective of colour and breed are my compatriots . To see a T/C as the president of this entire island , dedicated to Cyprus , is my dream .
First will follow the removal of the nonsense that We must have a foreign power as a motherland. The T/Cs are an integral part of this island only as Cypriots first the same criteria applies to all other Cypriots. If you or others who see as your motherland a foreign nation persist on this road then solution will never be achieved and conflict will be always just around the corner.

[Kifeas]

Come on Miltiades, you are better informed than that.
In the EU each country to their own. One country can block any law or process it likes. Totally undemocratic.
UK - We changed to 3 parliments where Everyone has a say in London and yet English have no say in Wales or Scotland.
The welsh and the scotts have two votes on account that they are a minority.
And to add insult to injury, we bankroll them from London. Where is the fairness in that?

Very simple. There is no one man one vote which adheres to your principle of democracy.

There moving towards confederation.

Fred I think you ought to study the fundamental principles of Democracy.
Here is one definition of democracy that holds true in all democratic states , and please note that it does not extend to a union of nations that come together as democratic nations each equal to one another regardless of size , wealth or power , any other method would be totalitarian and despotic.
Here is what democracy is all about :The political orientation of those who favour government by the people or by their elected representatives
a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them .
Majority rule: the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group , DO PLEASE NOTICE " THE WHOLE GROUP MEANING POLITICAL GROUP .

We never ever agreed to be in a state governed on the principle of majority rule with the GCs in Cyprus. We (and you) agreed to be in a state governed based on the political equality of the two communities. The U.N. and the rest of the world acknowledge that there are two communities with political equality in Cyprus. The RoC was not established based on the majority rule of the GCs and its constitution (before you altered it with the "doctrine of necessity") was not constructed based on the majority rule. I don`t know what your leaders are feeding you with in domestic politics but to the world they too, since 1979, are stating that there exists two politically communities and the solution to the Cyprus problem will be based on a bi-coomunal, bi-zonal federation with the political equlaity of the two communities.

Do you know why? It is because there exists no historical, political or ethical premise granting the GCs the right to extend their majority rule over TCs on this island. There never was, and there never will be. The sooner you deal with these facts as a community the better for all. You have been treated as the nation of this island for far too long and you are just flipping out against the fact that it is about to expire. Deal with it.

Dear Murat, I know you have this liking of making pompous statements oozing one-sidedness, authoritarianism and grandeurism, due the fact that you have Turkey with its 70 million to hide behind and play the tough. However, make sure that -while you are telling the GCs what will "expire" and what will "never" happen, your seriously endangered community -which is being taken a hostage of Turkey's megalomaniac delusion, does not in the meanwhile expire and disappear from the face of this planet.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas you over estimate the TCs dissapearing angle as TCs prefer thıs to lıvıng ın a GC state wıth majorıty rule as they do not want to put there future solely ın the hands of the GCs. The structure has to incorporate BBF with politcial equality of the 2 founding states. The "RoC" and TRNC will be cancelled and a new United Cyprus Republic will come about, this seems to be whats brewing right now so you better get used to the idea but of course feel free to reject it yet again.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas you over estimate the TCs dissapearing angle as TCs prefer thıs to lıvıng ın a GC state wıth majorıty rule as they do not want to put there future solely ın the hands of the GCs. The structure has to incorporate BBF with politcial equality of the 2 founding states. The "RoC" and TRNC will be cancelled and a new United Cyprus Republic will come about, this seems to be whats brewing right now so you better get used to the idea but of course feel free to reject it yet again.

There can be no two "founding" states in any one agreement, VP! This is only a fantasy of yours, and nothing else! There is only one state, the RoC, which will evolve into a federal state, from a unitary one, and will encompass two federative component states. The sooner you digest this reality, the better for you. This is the only legal fact, and there is no possibility in a million that you will ever get the GCs to deviate from this, more so now that we have established the RoC as an EU member state, and have a veto card against Turkey too. Stop fooling yourselves and wasting your times with impossible notions and missions! The GCs are not so stupid to ever allow you the illegitimate claim that you constitute a separate people with a separate territory in half of Cyprus, as a separate nation, and there is no one on this planet that is willing or ever will be to align with such an irredentist ambition of yours! You had a small chance before 2004, but it has gone down the drain now! Stop wasting yours and our time with nonsense that only harms you and Turkey in its EU ambitions!

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas you over estimate the TCs dissapearing angle as TCs prefer thıs to lıvıng ın a GC state wıth majorıty rule as they do not want to put there future solely ın the hands of the GCs. The structure has to incorporate BBF with politcial equality of the 2 founding states. The "RoC" and TRNC will be cancelled and a new United Cyprus Republic will come about, this seems to be whats brewing right now so you better get used to the idea but of course feel free to reject it yet again.

There can be no two "founding" states in any one agreement, VP! This is only a fantasy of yours, and nothing else! There is only one state, the RoC, which will evolve into a federal state, from a unitary one, and will encompass two federative component states. The sooner you digest this reality, the better for you. This is the only legal fact, and there is no possibility in a million that you will ever get the GCs to deviate from this, more so now that we have established the RoC as an EU member state, and have a veto card against Turkey too. Stop fooling yourselves and wasting your times with impossible notions and missions! The GCs are not so stupid to ever allow you the illegitimate claim that you constitute a separate people with a separate territory in half of Cyprus, as a separate nation, and there is no one on this planet that is willing or ever will be to align with such an irredentist ambition of yours! You had a small chance before 2004, but it has gone down the drain now! Stop wasting yours and our time with nonsense that only harms you and Turkey in its EU ambitions!

You conveniently forget that we are divided and that the world does not revolve around the needs and desires of GCs, we have seen far more extreme situations become acceptable and forced in the name of peace. You need to get off your high horse and realize that the leaders are negotiating a 2 state solution under a federal system, the "RoC" and TRNC will become history and a New United Cyprus Republic will appear with a new consititution ot the "RoC" constitution which you tried to change but a new constitution signed in front of the EU you lay so much trust in, so renagging which is a GC trait will not be tollerated and you can kiss the TC state goodbye forever, the rumours are that the basis is more along the lines of Serbia Montemegro than evolving the already defuncted "RoC" consititution due to ommission of the TC community and setting up a constitution that leaves the door wide open to majority domination and objection in the EU therefore conflict. The structure also has to work as a derrant for any future battle for total power, that is why 2 founding states are being discussed and wasnt it announced by no one other than your democratically voted leader Christofiyas?? You need a shock of reality and what you have to deal with not what you think is right and what you desire is best for the GC community. BBF with politcal equality of the 2 states is what you will have to deal with better start getting used to it as your leaders are gearing up to allow your time to consume the reality of a solution. But hey feel free to reject the end product.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas you over estimate the TCs dissapearing angle as TCs prefer thıs to lıvıng ın a GC state wıth majorıty rule as they do not want to put there future solely ın the hands of the GCs. The structure has to incorporate BBF with politcial equality of the 2 founding states. The "RoC" and TRNC will be cancelled and a new United Cyprus Republic will come about, this seems to be whats brewing right now so you better get used to the idea but of course feel free to reject it yet again.

There can be no two "founding" states in any one agreement, VP! This is only a fantasy of yours, and nothing else! There is only one state, the RoC, which will evolve into a federal state, from a unitary one, and will encompass two federative component states. The sooner you digest this reality, the better for you. This is the only legal fact, and there is no possibility in a million that you will ever get the GCs to deviate from this, more so now that we have established the RoC as an EU member state, and have a veto card against Turkey too. Stop fooling yourselves and wasting your times with impossible notions and missions! The GCs are not so stupid to ever allow you the illegitimate claim that you constitute a separate people with a separate territory in half of Cyprus, as a separate nation, and there is no one on this planet that is willing or ever will be to align with such an irredentist ambition of yours! You had a small chance before 2004, but it has gone down the drain now! Stop wasting yours and our time with nonsense that only harms you and Turkey in its EU ambitions!

You conveniently forget that we are divided and that the world does not revolve around the needs and desires of GCs, we have seen far more extreme situations become acceptable and forced in the name of peace. You need to get off your high horse and realize that the leaders are negotiating a 2 state solution under a federal system, the "RoC" and TRNC will become history and a New United Cyprus Republic will appear with a new consititution ot the "RoC" constitution which you tried to change but a new constitution signed in front of the EU you lay so much trust in, so renagging which is a GC trait will not be tollerated and you can kiss the TC state goodbye forever, the rumours are that the basis is more along the lines of Serbia Montemegro than evolving the already defuncted "RoC" consititution due to ommission of the TC community and setting up a constitution that leaves the door wide open to majority domination and objection in the EU therefore conflict. The structure also has to work as a derrant for any future battle for total power, that is why 2 founding states are being discussed and wasnt it announced by no one other than your democratically voted leader Christofiyas?? You need a shock of reality and what you have to deal with not what you think is right and what you desire is best for the GC community. BBF with politcal equality of the 2 states is what you will have to deal with better start getting used to it as your leaders are gearing up to allow your time to consume the reality of a solution. But hey feel free to reject the end product.

No VP, we are not divided, more so in a legal and legitimate sense. What exists is an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey, which performed an ethnic cleansing and usurpation of the homes and properties of the indigenous Greek Cypriot population of the occupied areas, and colonized it with its own people from Turkey. That is all that exists, and that is only what the world sees and understands. You simply choose to collaborate with an illegal occupant country, under a stillborn regime and status.

As for the RoC going to become "history" upon a solution, only a stupidity such as yours would have imagined something like this. A UN and EU member state that has signed such an important treaty, as that of its accession with the EU and each of all its member states separately, cannot possibly become "history," before the EU, the UN and the planet itself become history! Your theories can only apply in a science fiction movie, and not in the real world!