Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Come on Miltiades, you are better informed than that.
In the EU each country to their own. One country can block any law or process it likes. Totally undemocratic.
UK - We changed to 3 parliments where Everyone has a say in London and yet English have no say in Wales or Scotland.
The welsh and the scotts have two votes on account that they are a minority.
And to add insult to injury, we bankroll them from London. Where is the fairness in that?

Very simple. There is no one man one vote which adheres to your principle of democracy.

There moving towards confederation.

Fred I think you ought to study the fundamental principles of Democracy.
Here is one definition of democracy that holds true in all democratic states , and please note that it does not extend to a union of nations that come together as democratic nations each equal to one another regardless of size , wealth or power , any other method would be totalitarian and despotic.
Here is what democracy is all about :The political orientation of those who favour government by the people or by their elected representatives
a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them .
Majority rule: the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group , DO PLEASE NOTICE " THE WHOLE GROUP MEANING POLITICAL GROUP .

Miltiades, I understand what you are saying perfectly. The real qustion is can it work in Cyprus. Are the Cypriot people ready for such an experiment. It's psycology we are talking about. Such democratic shock treatments on a country may bring even more disaster.

I would like to tell you about a recent news story over here. True story.
A little girl feared dentist terribly. She had a milk tooth loose and refused anybody to touch it, she was so fearful. Dentist with the agreement of the parent and the hospital took it upon themselves to admit her to hospital, and did not mention to her why. Upon putting her to sleep, they thought pulling out all the milk teeth would solve the problem once an for all. They did.
That child did not eat a single thing after that operation and died some 27 days later. There was nothing else wrong with her.

The moral of this true story is not to do shock treatments. I believe that Cyprus will one day be politically mature enought to achive exactly what you would like. We have the same goal. The difference is that what you are suggesting , frightens the life of most TCs. They are not ready for such a move. There is nothing you or I or anyone else can do to change this. This does not mean that coming solution is the final one.
Why can't we start with some half-way house with a built in continual progression. This will allow the TC's to begin to stand on their on two feet, start putting a bit of distance between TCs and Turkey and eventualy, when confidence returns to the TCs, then we will have a democratic freedom.

I feel that if you attempt to do one man one vote with no protection for TCs we will be back in 63 quicker hat you can say heath robinson.

Just ask yourself this, as Cypriots are we ready for it?
Are Iraqies ready for democracy. After nearly a million people dead, I think you will agree, no.

[insan]

Miltiadis, by defending "political equality of 2 main communities" of Cyprus we have never meant minority rule; to the contrary we clearly and starightly meant rule of 2 politically equal communities that r GCs and TCs; respectively.

What you say, mean, and dream, is one thing... and what you'll get is what we the indigenous Cypriots call "The largest of the three!”

GR the protagonists of Hrisi Avgi; keep ur nonsense for urself and Hrisi Avgi.

[miltiades]

Come on Miltiades, you are better informed than that.
In the EU each country to their own. One country can block any law or process it likes. Totally undemocratic.
UK - We changed to 3 parliments where Everyone has a say in London and yet English have no say in Wales or Scotland.
The welsh and the scotts have two votes on account that they are a minority.
And to add insult to injury, we bankroll them from London. Where is the fairness in that?

Very simple. There is no one man one vote which adheres to your principle of democracy.

There moving towards confederation.

Fred I think you ought to study the fundamental principles of Democracy.
Here is one definition of democracy that holds true in all democratic states , and please note that it does not extend to a union of nations that come together as democratic nations each equal to one another regardless of size , wealth or power , any other method would be totalitarian and despotic.
Here is what democracy is all about :The political orientation of those who favour government by the people or by their elected representatives
a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them .
Majority rule: the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group , DO PLEASE NOTICE " THE WHOLE GROUP MEANING POLITICAL GROUP .

Miltiades, I understand what you are saying perfectly. The real qustion is can it work in Cyprus. Are the Cypriot people ready for such an experiment. It's psycology we are talking about. Such democratic shock treatments on a country may bring even more disaster.

I would like to tell you about a recent news story over here. True story.
A little girl feared dentist terribly. She had a milk tooth loose and refused anybody to touch it, she was so fearful. Dentist with the agreement of the parent and the hospital took it upon themselves to admit her to hospital, and did not mention to her why. Upon putting her to sleep, they thought pulling out all the milk teeth would solve the problem once an for all. They did.
That child did not eat a single thing after that operation and died some 27 days later. There was nothing else wrong with her.

The moral of this true story is not to do shock treatments. I believe that Cyprus will one day be politically mature enought to achive exactly what you would like. We have the same goal. The difference is that what you are suggesting , frightens the life of most TCs. They are not ready for such a move. There is nothing you or I or anyone else can do to change this. This does not mean that coming solution is the final one.
Why can't we start with some half-way house with a built in continual progression. This will allow the TC's to begin to stand on their on two feet, start putting a bit of distance between TCs and Turkey and eventualy, when confidence returns to the TCs, then we will have a democratic freedom.

I feel that if you attempt to do one man one vote with no protection for TCs we will be back in 63 quicker hat you can say heath robinson.

Just ask yourself this, as Cypriots are we ready for it?
Are Iraqies ready for democracy. After nearly a million people dead, I think you will agree, no.

A very good post Fred , I comprehend fully what you are saying and agree that removing fear and preconceived notions or rather cultivated phobias either of the G/Cs or the T/Cs is not going to be achieved overnight , but I take comfort in the knowledge that with time and interaction between the two communities will result in understanding and empathy with each other , not that difficult bearing in mind that you and I have never met but have somehow developed a mutual respect for each other although we do not see eye to eye with everything.
Our people need to embrace their nation and this nation can only be Cyprus. Those who consider Cyprus not to be their nation must take the decision to depart from our shores .
Your comparison of Cypriots to Iraqis is not at all relevant , we are totaly different people , well all apart from GR the clown , from the Iraqis .

[YFred]

Come on Miltiades, you are better informed than that.
In the EU each country to their own. One country can block any law or process it likes. Totally undemocratic.
UK - We changed to 3 parliments where Everyone has a say in London and yet English have no say in Wales or Scotland.
The welsh and the scotts have two votes on account that they are a minority.
And to add insult to injury, we bankroll them from London. Where is the fairness in that?

Very simple. There is no one man one vote which adheres to your principle of democracy.

There moving towards confederation.

Fred I think you ought to study the fundamental principles of Democracy.
Here is one definition of democracy that holds true in all democratic states , and please note that it does not extend to a union of nations that come together as democratic nations each equal to one another regardless of size , wealth or power , any other method would be totalitarian and despotic.
Here is what democracy is all about :The political orientation of those who favour government by the people or by their elected representatives
a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them .
Majority rule: the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group , DO PLEASE NOTICE " THE WHOLE GROUP MEANING POLITICAL GROUP .

Miltiades, I understand what you are saying perfectly. The real qustion is can it work in Cyprus. Are the Cypriot people ready for such an experiment. It's psycology we are talking about. Such democratic shock treatments on a country may bring even more disaster.

I would like to tell you about a recent news story over here. True story.
A little girl feared dentist terribly. She had a milk tooth loose and refused anybody to touch it, she was so fearful. Dentist with the agreement of the parent and the hospital took it upon themselves to admit her to hospital, and did not mention to her why. Upon putting her to sleep, they thought pulling out all the milk teeth would solve the problem once an for all. They did.
That child did not eat a single thing after that operation and died some 27 days later. There was nothing else wrong with her.

The moral of this true story is not to do shock treatments. I believe that Cyprus will one day be politically mature enought to achive exactly what you would like. We have the same goal. The difference is that what you are suggesting , frightens the life of most TCs. They are not ready for such a move. There is nothing you or I or anyone else can do to change this. This does not mean that coming solution is the final one.
Why can't we start with some half-way house with a built in continual progression. This will allow the TC's to begin to stand on their on two feet, start putting a bit of distance between TCs and Turkey and eventualy, when confidence returns to the TCs, then we will have a democratic freedom.

I feel that if you attempt to do one man one vote with no protection for TCs we will be back in 63 quicker hat you can say heath robinson.

Just ask yourself this, as Cypriots are we ready for it?
Are Iraqies ready for democracy. After nearly a million people dead, I think you will agree, no.

A very good post Fred , I comprehend fully what you are saying and agree that removing fear and preconceived notions or rather cultivated phobias either of the G/Cs or the T/Cs is not going to be achieved overnight , but I take comfort in the knowledge that with time and interaction between the two communities will result in understanding and empathy with each other , not that difficult bearing in mind that you and I have never met but have somehow developed a mutual respect for each other although we do not see eye to eye with everything.
Our people need to embrace their nation and this nation can only be Cyprus. Those who consider Cyprus not to be their nation must take the decision to depart from our shores .
Your comparison of Cypriots to Iraqis is not at all relevant , we are totaly different people , well all apart from GR the clown , from the Iraqis .

I allways believed that if two reasonable people, sat down and tried to solve this problem, It would have been solved long ago. I heard Clerides admit in a news item that if they wanted to solve the problem, they could have. They just didn't want to. Serdar said the same, to Papa Denktash no solution was the solution.

Fortunatley for us, for the first time in Cyprus history, two people negotiating on our behalf, have our interest at heart. I do believe that they will reach an agreement that will be acceptable to both, and we will rid this problem for once and for all.

Do you have confidence in Christofias in that he is not stalling for time, so that he can use the EU to get a better agreement. Because if he is we will be back to square one.

[miltiades]

Fred I'm convinced that the majority of Cypriots are fed up to the teeth with the continuing problem .
We are so similar and yet so far apart . The overwhelming number of our people share similar sentiments , concerns fears and ambitions. The dividing conflicting elements are so utterly immaterial and unimportant when you come to think of them with an unbiased and clear of misconceptions mind . The year before last I paid a visit to the village that gave birth to a great Cypriot , Birkibrisly . I wanted to visit and somehow pay homage to a dear friend who was born about 10 kilometres away from where I was born , I will always remember my visit to this now all but ruined T/C village and as a reminder I have a stone with the inscription " ISTINJO" sitting on my desk.
Bir is just one of the many Cypriots that I consider as a friend although we have never met and I believe spoke once only on the phone.
Opening your heart and feeling the pain and suffering endured by the Cypriot people , G/Cs or T/Cs is of paramount importance , the thousands that lost their lives and the thousands that lost their ancestral homes , that are made to feel as strangers in their own birth cradles , the thousands that through fear and intimidation became refugees in their own countries or made to feel like worthless members of a negligible minority . This is what we must put right through understanding and respect for each other. Our young people today are making a genuine effort to achieve what we failed .Lets go forward as Cypriots , G/Cs , T/Cs Maronites , Armenians and other Cypriots but let us begin the process of removing for ever the chains of our erroneously perceived motherlands , Turkey and Greece .

[YFred]

Fred I'm convinced that the majority of Cypriots are fed up to the teeth with the continuing problem .
We are so similar and yet so far apart . The overwhelming number of our people share similar sentiments , concerns fears and ambitions. The dividing conflicting elements are so utterly immaterial and unimportant when you come to think of them with an unbiased and clear of misconceptions mind . The year before last I paid a visit to the village that gave birth to a great Cypriot , Birkibrisly . I wanted to visit and somehow pay homage to a dear friend who was born about 10 kilometres away from where I was born , I will always remember my visit to this now all but ruined T/C village and as a reminder I have a stone with the inscription " ISTINJO" sitting on my desk.
Bir is just one of the many Cypriots that I consider as a friend although we have never met and I believe spoke once only on the phone.
Opening your heart and feeling the pain and suffering endured by the Cypriot people , G/Cs or T/Cs is of paramount importance , the thousands that lost their lives and the thousands that lost their ancestral homes , that are made to feel as strangers in their own birth cradles , the thousands that through fear and intimidation became refugees in their own countries or made to feel like worthless members of a negligible minority . This is what we must put right through understanding and respect for each other. Our young people today are making a genuine effort to achieve what we failed .Lets go forward as Cypriots , G/Cs , T/Cs Maronites , Armenians and other Cypriots but let us begin the process of removing for ever the chains of our erroneously perceived motherlands , Turkey and Greece .

I agree with you whole heartedly. Many members of my family in Cyprus, take part in mixed Concerts and folk dancing. This has been going on for some years. They can also not only speak but write Greek. My own personal family has been pro peace and preparing for this day since the CTP formation. People just do not realise how dangerous it was to join CTP or even talk peace, not that long ago.

People do not realise the effort put in by the British Government, to work towards a solution. They have been inviting representatives from both sides to london to do just what we do hear. Talk and come to understand each other. Its been going on for years. Some of those people are now involved in some way in the negotiations.
However you are right. It needs to continue and it can only help.
Notice my signature change. I have clearer undertsandig of what hellenism is and how it has been and being abused. There is nothing wrong with difference. Thats what makes the world go round.

[miltiades]

Deniz often comes to my office for a chat and a coffee I think we shall invite you to join us one of these days , you will have to however endure the American flag on my desk !!!!!
Especially for GR , our resident clown

[Get Real!]

Miltiadis, by defending "political equality of 2 main communities" of Cyprus we have never meant minority rule; to the contrary we clearly and starightly meant rule of 2 politically equal communities that r GCs and TCs; respectively.

What you say, mean, and dream, is one thing... and what you'll get is what we the indigenous Cypriots call "The largest of the three!”

GR the protagonists of Hrisi Avgi; keep ur nonsense for urself and Hrisi Avgi.

Hrisi Avgi and I have NOTHING in common. I'm a Cypriot nationalist and they are Greek fascist nationalists so get your facts right.

[YFred]

Deniz often comes to my office for a chat and a coffee I think we shall invite you to join us one of these days , you will have to however endure the American flag on my desk !!!!!
Especially for GR , our resident clown

I don't dislike Americans as per say. Its just Bush and the rest of the right wing. American people I have come accross are very nice people.
Why not meet one day. I meet with my Uni GC friends regularly and guess what we talk about?
Allways with respect and most of the time agree.

[Get Real!]

Laurel and Hardy on “democracy”…