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Is this Normal?

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Postby Paphitis » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:57 am

RichardB wrote:
Here is an exercise for you all:

See if you can tell me where exactly the most Critical Point (and hence the most dangerous) is for an engine failure on that profile.

Also, tell me where you think the First Segment Climb, Second Segment Climb and Acceleration Height is on the profile. Very Happy


Errrr NO but I bet you're gonna tell us :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good day young man


Hello Richard. :D

Sorry mate..but sometimes I get carried away. It is a passion so I guess it is really whatever rocks every one's boat. :wink:

How is your family and your grand son doing. Hope all is well. :)
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Postby RichardB » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:59 am

Paphitis wrote:
RichardB wrote:
Here is an exercise for you all:

See if you can tell me where exactly the most Critical Point (and hence the most dangerous) is for an engine failure on that profile.

Also, tell me where you think the First Segment Climb, Second Segment Climb and Acceleration Height is on the profile. Very Happy


Errrr NO but I bet you're gonna tell us :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good day young man


Hello Richard. :D

Sorry mate..but sometimes I get carried away. It is a passion so I guess it is really whatever rocks every one's boat. :wink:

How is your family and your grand son going. hope all is well. :)


All fine

Just about to set off for work

Catch yer later
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Postby CBBB » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:01 am

RichardB wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
RichardB wrote:
Here is an exercise for you all:

See if you can tell me where exactly the most Critical Point (and hence the most dangerous) is for an engine failure on that profile.

Also, tell me where you think the First Segment Climb, Second Segment Climb and Acceleration Height is on the profile. Very Happy


Errrr NO but I bet you're gonna tell us :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good day young man


Hello Richard. :D

Sorry mate..but sometimes I get carried away. It is a passion so I guess it is really whatever rocks every one's boat. :wink:

How is your family and your grand son going. hope all is well. :)


All fine

Just about to set off for work

Catch yer later


Most dangerous ppoint is at V1, isn't it?
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Postby Paphitis » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:15 am

CBBB wrote:
RichardB wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
RichardB wrote:
Here is an exercise for you all:

See if you can tell me where exactly the most Critical Point (and hence the most dangerous) is for an engine failure on that profile.

Also, tell me where you think the First Segment Climb, Second Segment Climb and Acceleration Height is on the profile. Very Happy


Errrr NO but I bet you're gonna tell us :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good day young man


Hello Richard. :D

Sorry mate..but sometimes I get carried away. It is a passion so I guess it is really whatever rocks every one's boat. :wink:

How is your family and your grand son going. hope all is well. :)


All fine

Just about to set off for work

Catch yer later


Most dangerous ppoint is at V1, isn't it?


Well, whenever YFronts, Miltiades, CBBB and Doesntmatter are on CF at the same time, the relative bullshit flow increases proportionally to the post rate giving us the following formula:

CF Bullshit Factor = 1/2 x rho x Vsquared x Post Rate(Miltiades, CBBB, YFronts and Doesntknowhisarsehole)

Where rho = Bullshit Density (dependant on post length)
V = Post velocity

Therefore:

CF Bullshit Factor is directly proportional to rho (Bullshit density) and V (Post velocity) and Post Rate! :evil:

:lol: :lol:
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Postby kurupetos » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:33 pm

Paphitis wrote:
kurupetos wrote:Isn't it true that the heavier the aircraft the more thrust it will need to take off? :roll: Therefore aircraft mass & thrust are interdependent. :wink:


No that is not entirely correct.

There are 4 forces acting on an aircraft.

They are:
1) Lift (L) - acts upwards and at right angles to the airflow through the Centre of Pressure
2) Weight (W) - is the total weight which acts vertically downwards through the Centre of Gravity
3) Thrust - is the forward propulsive force provided by the engines
4) Drag - is the backward force which opposes the forward motion of the aircraft and acts parallel and in the reverse direction of the aircraft movement

For an aircraft to maintain straight and level flight, then L=W.

For an aircraft to climb then L>W.

Lift can be worked out using the following formula:

L=1/2 x rho x Vsquared x s

rho=air density
V=Velocity
S=Wing Area

Therefore to increase L you will need to increase the velocity (V), and to do this you would need additional Thrust. So yes, if you are carrying a full load, you would need maximum thrust to climb out.

However this does not necessarily apply to aircraft of greater mass, because some large aircraft can have a massive wing span and wing area (S) which also creates greater L as:

L is directly proportional to S
L is directly proportional to V


That is why some aircraft with a small Delta Wing (Mirage 2000) require a massive amount of V to lift off, whereas a heavy C130 Hercules can TO a low speeds and use a small amount of runway due to its large wing area (S) creating more lift at lower speeds. :wink:

Have I confused you yet? :lol:


No, I knew all these from years back when I was studying Gas Dynamics and Compressible Flow. :) It's always good to remember them a bit. :lol:
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Postby kurupetos » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:39 pm

For the astute researcher I recommend the following (I think I used to play with it when I was trying to calculate the angle of attack, etc....):

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/incline.html

Nice! 8) :lol:
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