The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Did TCs deserve it?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Did TCs deserve it?

Postby insan » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:49 am

HOW THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY MADE A CYPRUS SETTLEMENT IMPOSSIBLE

Monday-9-2009

by Michael Stephen

International Lawyer. Member of the UK Parliament 1992-97. Member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs, Chatham House. Author of "The Cyprus Question"

The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus, and to refrain from seeking to impose its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed.

If the Turkish Cypriots are to engage in further talks, they must be with the Americans, and to a lesser extent with the British and the EU, who have the power to change the international status quo. It is a fallacy to suppose that the UN has any substantive role to play, but if realistic international conditions were to be established, talks under UN auspices could be resumed with reasonable prospects of success.


http://latestonconflict.blogspot.com/20 ... us_09.html

I strongly believe that recognizing the GC administration as the only legitimate government of Cyprus was one of the biggest mistakes "they" did and maintained. It has been the biggest obstacle infront of a just settlement since 1964.

Why? Because Hellenes have had better politicians, diplomats, propagandists, lobbyists and communication with "them"? Because Hellenes allied it's anti-Turkish power(lobbying) with all other anti-Turks(Armenian and Kurdish lobby). I'm sure it's not about agitated and exagerrated propaganda. I'm sure international community has the ability to discern truths with propaganda. Do TC and Turkish lobbyist not adequately talented/powerful to convince international community that it's not fair to recognise GC administration as the only legitimate government of Cyprus?
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Re: Did TCs deserve it?

Postby Paphitis » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:41 am

insan wrote:
HOW THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY MADE A CYPRUS SETTLEMENT IMPOSSIBLE

Monday-9-2009

by Michael Stephen

International Lawyer. Member of the UK Parliament 1992-97. Member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs, Chatham House. Author of "The Cyprus Question"

The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus, and to refrain from seeking to impose its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed.

If the Turkish Cypriots are to engage in further talks, they must be with the Americans, and to a lesser extent with the British and the EU, who have the power to change the international status quo. It is a fallacy to suppose that the UN has any substantive role to play, but if realistic international conditions were to be established, talks under UN auspices could be resumed with reasonable prospects of success.


http://latestonconflict.blogspot.com/20 ... us_09.html

I strongly believe that recognizing the GC administration as the only legitimate government of Cyprus was one of the biggest mistakes "they" did and maintained. It has been the biggest obstacle infront of a just settlement since 1964.

Why? Because Hellenes have had better politicians, diplomats, propagandists, lobbyists and communication with "them"? Because Hellenes allied it's anti-Turkish power(lobbying) with all other anti-Turks(Armenian and Kurdish lobby). I'm sure it's not about agitated and exagerrated propaganda. I'm sure international community has the ability to discern truths with propaganda. Do TC and Turkish lobbyist not adequately talented/powerful to convince international community that it's not fair to recognise GC administration as the only legitimate government of Cyprus?


The above source is not reliable, except in Insan's fantasy world. :lol:

Michael Stephen has been proven to be a "Friend of Turkey" and a paid propogandist against Cyprus.

http://www.sam.gov.tr/perceptions/Volum ... Atasoy.pdf

He is also involved with the building of a British Memorial in occupied cyprus. It appears he is a very bitter man who is propogating anti Cyprus rubbish due to Britain's demoralising defeat in 55-59.

http://www.britishcyprusmemorial.org/in ... out/where/

http://www.britishcyprusmemorial.org/in ... t/whoarewe

Who is organising the memorial?

“Friends of the Cyprus Memorial, which includes the Royal British Legion, and the president of which is The Lord Maginnis of Drumglass, a former officer with the Ulster Defence Regiment (now the Royal Irish Regiment)
The chairman of the management committee is former MP Michael Stephen, a barrister specialising in international affairs who saw service with The Life Guards.”


Stephen Michael or as he is sometimes known Michael Stephen, works for the infamous "BOW GROUP" hired by Turkey and/or the “TRNC” to help them out with their poor image and propaganda...

http://www.bowgroup.org/

...and as their motto says... “The Bow Group is the oldest - and one of the most influential - centre-right Think-Tanks in Britain”

So sites like…

http://www.mediaprof.org/tcvoices/ukhist.html

..are nothing but paid garbage propaganda by corrupt and immoral British politicians who have been given free holiday homes by the corrupt “TRNC” no doubt on Greek Cypriot land!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cyprus/story/ ... 69,00.html
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Postby Paphitis » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:46 am

Do people realise that Turkey spends about $30million dollars to Australian PR companies in order to propogate Turkish propaganda to the Australian Government? :shock:

These Turks are very clever.

I wonder where Michael Stephen's holiday house is located in the "trnc". Perhaps it is also a stolen GC property as well. :roll:
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Postby Paphitis » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:53 am

The Turkish Propaganda machine is alive and well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ica-XWfhLeo

http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=157781

February 24, 1999

The allegations by the Turkish Government that the official authorities of the Republic of Cyprus were involved in the Ocalan case, were rejected by the Cyprus Government as totally unfounded and groundless. President Glafcos Clerides responding today to these allegations underlined that:

"In Cyprus there is a United Nations Peacekeeping Force which has freedom of movement. If such camps existed they would not have escaped UNFICYP's notice."

"Moreover," the President added "the Ambassadors of all member-states as well as other countries can move freely in the island, and if there were such a thing it would not have escaped their notice either. If European countries wish to send representatives to travel freely throughout Cyprus, they too will establish that the accusations Turkey has levelled against Cyprus are totally unfounded."

Furthermore, Foreign Minister Kasoulides replying to press questions at a press conference in Washington on 18 February stressed that:

"We will not and we do not involve ourselves in the causes of other people, however sympathetic we may appear to the rights of the Kurdish people regarding their struggle for human rights and cultural identity. Otherwise, we have no connection, we want no connection." He also added that Turkish propaganda that Abdullah Ocalan was provided by the Republic a diplomatic Cypriot passport, is totally baseless since Cypriot diplomatic passports are of blue color and not red as it was shown on Turkish Television.

Minister Kasoulides made clear that the Government of Cyprus, had nothing to do with the recent adventure regarding Mr. Ocalan or the PKK and he rejected accusations that it has been harboring PKK people in Cyprus.

Cyprus' position on the broader issue is fully aligned with the joint statement of the EU Foreign Ministers issued in Brussels on 22 February and which supports that the Kurdish leader must have an open and fair trial before an independent court with access to legal counsel of his choice and with international observers admitted to the trial.

As it was stated on 23 February by the Cyprus Government Spokesman Christos Stylianides:

"The Cyprus Government deplores Turkey's attempt to make propaganda capital out of the issue, expresses its abhorrence at the manner in which the captive Kurdish leader was paraded in front of the Turkish television cameras and stresses the need to ensure that Abdullah Ocalan is treated humanely."

The Cyprus Government has for many years been bringing attention to the fact that basic human rights and fundamental freedoms are systematically being violated by Turkey, both at home and abroad.

The world community is well aware of the 1974 invasion and continuing occupation of Cyprus by Turkey, the systematic violation of human rights of Cypriots, the torture and murder of journalists and the Turkish treatment of its Kurdish ethnic minority.

Despite numerous calls of the United Nations, the European Union, Human Rights organizations and others, on the Turkish Government to comply with the principles of International Law and to respect human rights , no step has been taken by Turkey towards that end. On the contrary, it refuses to abide with the decisions of the international community and ignores all international calls.

This is also evident in the case of the Kurdish leader, Abdullah Ocalan. In view of Turkey's dismal record on human rights it is most ironic that Turkey tries to give to other nations lessons of democratic behavior.


http://www.un.int/cyprus/pr240299.htm
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Did TCs deserve it?

Postby Piratis » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:55 pm

insan wrote:
HOW THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY MADE A CYPRUS SETTLEMENT IMPOSSIBLE

Monday-9-2009

by Michael Stephen

International Lawyer. Member of the UK Parliament 1992-97. Member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs, Chatham House. Author of "The Cyprus Question"

The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus, and to refrain from seeking to impose its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed.

If the Turkish Cypriots are to engage in further talks, they must be with the Americans, and to a lesser extent with the British and the EU, who have the power to change the international status quo. It is a fallacy to suppose that the UN has any substantive role to play, but if realistic international conditions were to be established, talks under UN auspices could be resumed with reasonable prospects of success.


http://latestonconflict.blogspot.com/20 ... us_09.html

I strongly believe that recognizing the GC administration as the only legitimate government of Cyprus was one of the biggest mistakes "they" did and maintained. It has been the biggest obstacle infront of a just settlement since 1964.

Why? Because Hellenes have had better politicians, diplomats, propagandists, lobbyists and communication with "them"? Because Hellenes allied it's anti-Turkish power(lobbying) with all other anti-Turks(Armenian and Kurdish lobby). I'm sure it's not about agitated and exagerrated propaganda. I'm sure international community has the ability to discern truths with propaganda. Do TC and Turkish lobbyist not adequately talented/powerful to convince international community that it's not fair to recognise GC administration as the only legitimate government of Cyprus?


No my friend. The why is because you simply can not have a "Turkish State" on land that belongs to Greek Cypriots by over 80%.

Is the UN supposed to accept methods of foreign invasion, ethnic cleansing, land grab, and importing of Settlers as a way of creating countries? :roll:

Cyprus is one country, and today, more than ever, is ruled in democratic way and represents the Cypriot people. The Turkish minority is free to participate in the elections as both candidates and as voters. But they have no right to take our lands, neither a right for Ottoman style privileges on the expense of the Cypriot people.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Re: Did TCs deserve it?

Postby utu » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:13 am

[quote="Piratis"][Is the UN supposed to accept methods of foreign invasion, ethnic cleansing, land grab, and importing of Settlers as a way of creating countries? :roll:

I hate to say this, Piratis, but most of the countries of Asia, Africa, the Americas, and Oceania have governments as memebers of the UN who came about originally by ethnic cleansing, land grab, and settler importation. Australia is a good example of that. So is North America, Cental, and South America, and islands in the Pacific. They are tolerated, so your argument here really does not hold all that much water, unfortunately.
User avatar
utu
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:32 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Did TCs deserve it?

Postby Piratis » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:28 am

utu wrote:
Piratis wrote:Is the UN supposed to accept methods of foreign invasion, ethnic cleansing, land grab, and importing of Settlers as a way of creating countries? :roll:


I hate to say this, Piratis, but most of the countries of Asia, Africa, the Americas, and Oceania have governments as memebers of the UN who came about originally by ethnic cleansing, land grab, and settler importation. Australia is a good example of that. So is North America, Cental, and South America, and islands in the Pacific. They are tolerated, so your argument here really does not hold all that much water, unfortunately.


Those countries were created long before the UN and before International Law, at a time when slavery and other nasty things were all "legal". So what doesn't hold water is your lame excuse, because in fact the UN does not and will not recognize any "state" created by means of foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing.

Tell me utu, what do you think of Hitler and the Nazis? Did you support them as well? Because the "argument" that you make could have been made by Hitler as well to excuse his own crimes.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Re: Did TCs deserve it?

Postby Murataga » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:04 am

Piratis wrote:
utu wrote:
Piratis wrote:Is the UN supposed to accept methods of foreign invasion, ethnic cleansing, land grab, and importing of Settlers as a way of creating countries? :roll:


I hate to say this, Piratis, but most of the countries of Asia, Africa, the Americas, and Oceania have governments as memebers of the UN who came about originally by ethnic cleansing, land grab, and settler importation. Australia is a good example of that. So is North America, Cental, and South America, and islands in the Pacific. They are tolerated, so your argument here really does not hold all that much water, unfortunately.


Those countries were created long before the UN and before International Law, at a time when slavery and other nasty things were all "legal". So what doesn't hold water is your lame excuse, because in fact the UN does not and will not recognize any "state" created by means of foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing.


Really? Because I know for a fact that you were able to pass as the RoC in the U.N. during the 60s when you had: ethnically cleansed thousands of TCs, prevented them from returning to their homes, prevented them from attending their government, invited and were harboring thousands of troops of the Hellenic Army which in effect was an an invasive force; and all of which occured before 1974, before the TRNC was established, and before GCs were making claims about being displaced.

The currently recognized "RoC" was created precisely by "means of foreign invasion" (Greek Army and the illegal "CNG", EOKA-B which it supported) and "ethnic cleansing" (of the TCs).

Piratis wrote:Tell me utu, what do you think of Hitler and the Nazis? Did you support them as well? Because the "argument" that you make could have been made by Hitler as well to excuse his own crimes.


That is rich coming from an individual whose sole "argument" is that it was alright for the GCs side to disregard their side of the agreements because they deserved better and at the same time blaming the TCs for not abiding by the rules that he likes. You are a monument to hypocrisy.
User avatar
Murataga
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 824
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:32 pm

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:02 am

Murataga Wrote:
Really? Because I know for a fact that you were able to pass as the RoC in the U.N. during the 60s when you had: ethnically cleansed thousands of TCs, prevented them from returning to their homes, prevented them from attending their government, invited and were harboring thousands of troops of the Hellenic Army which in effect was an an invasive force; and all of which occured before 1974, before the TRNC was established, and before GCs were making claims about being displaced.

The currently recognized "RoC" was created precisely by "means of foreign invasion" (Greek Army and the illegal "CNG", EOKA-B which it supported) and "ethnic cleansing" (of the TCs).


The above is exactly like your typical Turkish Myths and propaganda that is propagated by many Neo Partitionists(Murataga) on this forum.

A common propaganda bite used by the Turkish state to legitimize its 1974 invasion of Cyprus is that "The Greek Cypriots then unleashed a campaign of extermination and eviction that killed or wounded thousands and drove a frightening percentage of Turkish Cypriots into besieged enclaves.." (Insight Magazine, "Fences Might Be the Right Thing for Multiethnic Nation of Cyprus", Ahmet Erdengiz, Feb. 7).


And let’s not mention the false claims of genocide which only claimed about 800 TC lives, compared to some 10,000 GC victims from 1958-1974.

And the sole purpose of these besieged enclaves was none other than to facilitate the dream of TAKSIM!

This claim has been refuted by findings of impartial sources such as the UN Secretary General's report No. S/5950, para. 142 which confirms that as a result of the brief but turbulent period of hostilities between Greek and Turkish-Cypriot extremists from December 21, 1963 to June 8, 1964, a total of 43 Greek Cypriots and 232 Turkish Cypriots are missing and presumed dead. Clearly, this was no "campaign of extermination".


Even UN Secretary General's report S/5950, para. 142 refutes the Turkish claims of extermination and genocide.

Why let facts get in the way of a good story when TAKSIM is your sole objective?

Moreover, these deaths were a direct result of Britain's documented policy of arming Turkish separatists and encouraging Greco-Turkish conflict to facilitate its control over Cyprus.


The real culprit of GC and TC victims has been identified..

While extremists of both communities are to blame for intercommunal violence, fuelled by British attempts to prevent this overwhelmingly Greek island-nation from achieving its self-determination, history is clear that Turkish extremists initiated the cycle of violence that claimed victims on both sides.

In June of 1958, a bomb explosion outside the information office of the Turkish Consulate-- later shown to have been planted by Turkish extremists (the "TMT")--set off the first intercommunal clashes on Cyprus. As noted by British author Christopher Hitchens in his highly acclaimed work on Cyprus, Hostage to History, the self-proclaimed president of Cyprus' occupation regime, Rauf Denktash, admitted in a 1984 interview that it was a Turkish Cypriot friend who planted the bomb. As a result, "Turkish Cypriots promptly burned out a neighbouring district of Greek shops and homes, in what was to be the first Greek-Turkish physical confrontation on the island. A curfew was imposed, and Greek guerrillas [were] blamed [by British authorities] for the bomb as they were for everything else."


The fact that the TCs were the first to instigate intercommunal violence against the GCs, as a pre-cursor for TAKSIM is well documented.

Next the British released from jail eight Greek Cypriot EOKA fighters, forcing them to walk through the Turkish village of Guenyeli, where they were quickly set upon and murdered. Thus began two months of violence by extremists on both sides, killing 56 Greeks and 53 Turks. Tellingly, the British arrested 2,000 Greeks, but only 60 Turks.


More British crimes against Cyprus and their very clever policy of instigating further destabilising violence through "Divide and Rule".

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority. In a single week over 600 families, two-thirds of them Greek, left their homes, and many Turks who left Greek areas did so under intense pressure from Turkish separatists.

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence. Turks caught smoking Greek cigarettes or visiting Greek shops were beaten, and Turkish gangs forced some Turkish Cypriots to resign from Greek Cypriot trade unions. In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT. Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia. "Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created. However, this so-called `first phase' of the invasion of Cyprus by Turkey only partly succeeded, since well over half of its brethren refused to obey instructions to abandon their homes for the predetermined enclaves" (The Making of Modern Cyprus, Panteli). On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.


http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

TCs are then forced into enclaves by separatist TMT terrorists.

TMT terror against TCs was also instrumental at enforcing TCs to withdraw into enclaves in order to facilitate TAKSIM more easily.

The enclaves were mostly created by TMT separatists in order to facilitate TAKSIM, and have far less to do with the exaggerated propaganda by Neo Partitionists that TCs were forced to withdraw into enclaves for protection against the GCs.
Last edited by Paphitis on Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:06 am

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.


Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.


And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.


In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.


Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.


The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus.

"Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.


On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.

On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.


http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

Therefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was TAKSIM! :roll:
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Next

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Maxx_truch and 1 guest