Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

[Because Hellenes have had better politicians, diplomats, propagandists, lobbyists and communication with "them"? Because Hellenes allied it's anti-Turkish power(lobbying) with all other anti-Turks(Armenian and Kurdish lobby). I'm sure it's not about agitated and exagerrated propaganda. I'm sure international community has the ability to discern truths with propaganda. Do TC and Turkish lobbyist not adequately talented/powerful to convince international community that it's not fair to recognise GC administration as the only legitimate government of Cyprus?

Insan you are a delusional hysterical harlot!

The reason why the GCs are in favour, is simply because they are on the side of RIGHT ... so we do not need to spend on propaganda .....

We have what you envy ... for free!

Insan , are you realy suggesting that the Northern part of Cyprus with some 40 or so thousand FOREIGN troops plus a couple of hundred of thousand settlers , should be viewed by the International community as another legitimate entity in Cyprus . It wont happen mate , why ? because such "recognition" would herald the permanent partition of our island , yours and mine .

Nothing lasts forever, Miltiades. It is obvious that neither u will give up ur self-determination right nor will we. We proposed u a common consociational self-determination right of 2 communities but u didn't accept. This is the end of story between u and us. As for the settlers and Turkish troops, it's our problem not urs.

The "grandpa" has put his teeth back in ...

Insan, your fantasy world is one thing and reality is a totally different thing dear.

It's not what you wish, but what is fair and right ... and you are unfair and wrong!

Don't dismiss us from our own country, you have come from afar ... we have always been here, and seen everyone else off

Oracle, it is obvious that; it's u that living in a fantasy world. Listen what ur elected president says and compare it with what u say. Got it?

Sorry ... the President is out for what is Right, and I back him 100% ... look back and see how often what I say agrees with his stance (the real one not the perverted Talat version ).

Christofias and I are like this ....

[insan]

[Because Hellenes have had better politicians, diplomats, propagandists, lobbyists and communication with "them"? Because Hellenes allied it's anti-Turkish power(lobbying) with all other anti-Turks(Armenian and Kurdish lobby). I'm sure it's not about agitated and exagerrated propaganda. I'm sure international community has the ability to discern truths with propaganda. Do TC and Turkish lobbyist not adequately talented/powerful to convince international community that it's not fair to recognise GC administration as the only legitimate government of Cyprus?

Insan you are a delusional hysterical harlot!

The reason why the GCs are in favour, is simply because they are on the side of RIGHT ... so we do not need to spend on propaganda .....

We have what you envy ... for free!

Insan , are you realy suggesting that the Northern part of Cyprus with some 40 or so thousand FOREIGN troops plus a couple of hundred of thousand settlers , should be viewed by the International community as another legitimate entity in Cyprus . It wont happen mate , why ? because such "recognition" would herald the permanent partition of our island , yours and mine .

Nothing lasts forever, Miltiades. It is obvious that neither u will give up ur self-determination right nor will we. We proposed u a common consociational self-determination right of 2 communities but u didn't accept. This is the end of story between u and us. As for the settlers and Turkish troops, it's our problem not urs.

The "grandpa" has put his teeth back in ...

Insan, your fantasy world is one thing and reality is a totally different thing dear.

It's not what you wish, but what is fair and right ... and you are unfair and wrong!

Don't dismiss us from our own country, you have come from afar ... we have always been here, and seen everyone else off

Oracle, it is obvious that; it's u that living in a fantasy world. Listen what ur elected president says and compare it with what u say. Got it?

Sorry ... the President is out for what is Right, and I back him 100% ... look back and see how often what I say agrees with his stance (the real one not the perverted Talat version ).

Christofias and I are like this ....

U reckon that ur opinions and Christofias stance coincide... I would tell u what it is but bcz of the upcoming presidential ellections I don't wish to undermine the political position of Mr Christofias. Be it the current situation, or a unified Cyprus or partitoned Cyprus; I'd prefer the leftist dominated governments.

Btw, is that beautiful hand belongs to u?

[utu]

Also, you didn't tell me of an example since the establishment of the UN, that a country was created by means of foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing. Do you have any such example from anywhere in the world?

Recent examples are Republika Sprska (Bosnian territory invaded by Serbia and de-nuded of non-Serbs), South Ossetia and Abkhazia (Georgia invaded by Russia and denuded of Georgians).

And was any of the above recognized by the UN?

Recognized by UN members, yes. Russia and Nicaragua (to soon be followed by Belarus) which are UN members recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Republika Sprska as recognized BY THE UN as a ligitimate component of the country known as Bosnia and Herzegovina.

FYI Most of the nations of Africa that had been granted independence in the 1950's, 60's and 70's embarked on ethnic cleansing. On former colonists, minority tribes, and such. They are recognized by the UN. Also policies of forced assimilation, which is another form of ethnic cleansing.

[Piratis]

Recognized by UN members, yes. Russia and Nicaragua (to soon be followed by Belarus) which are UN members recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Republika Sprska as recognized BY THE UN as a ligitimate component of the country known as Bosnia and Herzegovina.

That is not what I asked. I asked if they are recognized by the UN, not "UN members". The pseudo state is also recognized by a UN member, Turkey. And that is as far as they are going to get. OK, maybe Azerbaijan one day

Here is a list with the countries of the world:
http://www.un.org/members/list.shtml
Non of your examples is in that list.

FYI Most of the nations of Africa that had been granted independence in the 1950's, 60's and 70's embarked on ethnic cleansing. On former colonists, minority tribes, and such. They are recognized by the UN. Also policies of forced assimilation, which is another form of ethnic cleansing.

Not only in Africa, this is what Turkey did with the Greeks and Kurks. Actually the Turks were even worst because their crimes were against the native people of Asia Minor, not against former colonialists.

But there is no foreign invasion in these cases (not one after the UN was established). Furthermore those countries were already formed and recognized before they committed any of those crimes. The ethnic cleansing was not the means used to create the country.

Therefore there is no example in modern history (after the establishment of UN) of a country formed with an invasion by a foreign country and the ethnic cleansing of the native population.

But I have another question for you: What do you support? Do you support foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing as means to create a country?

[utu]

Piratis,

I neversaid that I supported "TRNC". I don't, as a matter of fact. I'm trying to point out that the "TRNC" is not - in my opinion - a unique case, and that the international community has a nasty habit of turning a bling eye in the name of political expediency. Actually, I thought that you of all people on this forum would understand what I was trying to drive at. I guess I misjudged you.

[Sotos]

If they didn't turn a blind eye then they would enforce the resolutions of 1974 and there wouldn't be Turkish occupation today! They turn a blind eye when it is for their interests. But turning a blind eye to the Turkish crimes is one thing and recognizing or trading with them is another thing!

[utu]

If they didn't turn a blind eye then they would enforce the resolutions of 1974 and there wouldn't be Turkish occupation today! They turn a blind eye when it is for their interests. But turning a blind eye to the Turkish crimes is one thing and recognizing or trading with them is another thing!

However, the trouble with that, and I know this is not something that you would like to hear, Sotos. but there is credence as to Greek crimes committed as well. Greek radicals did kill Turkish Cypriots, and that certainly qualifies as a crime, regardless of numbers. Also, if one wishes to use historical examples as well, one can point at the examples of Crete and also the aftermath of the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, when the Turkish minority living in Greece were forcibly removed as part of a population exhange in the wake of the failed Greek invasion of Turkey after WW1. Despite these examples, trade with Greece and Cyprus by the international community continued, and still continues. Why should those examples be ignored, if the rationale for condeming Turkey and it's nothern Cypriot puppet state be on the basis of nationalist crimes committed? Turkey certainly has dirty hands, true. But Greece's and Greek Cyprus' hands are not lilly-white either. Self-denial is a still-pervasive (and ultimately destructive) trait amongst both Cypriot communities, I'm afraid. If unification ever comes, a truth and reconciliation commission must convene and the full facts exposed. Otherside, it's all going to recur...

[Oracle]

Yes, yes, yes, yes ..... yes!

... but the GCs did not!

[Piratis]

If they didn't turn a blind eye then they would enforce the resolutions of 1974 and there wouldn't be Turkish occupation today! They turn a blind eye when it is for their interests. But turning a blind eye to the Turkish crimes is one thing and recognizing or trading with them is another thing!

However, the trouble with that, and I know this is not something that you would like to hear, Sotos. but there is credence as to Greek crimes committed as well. Greek radicals did kill Turkish Cypriots, and that certainly qualifies as a crime, regardless of numbers. Also, if one wishes to use historical examples as well, one can point at the examples of Crete and also the aftermath of the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, when the Turkish minority living in Greece were forcibly removed as part of a population exhange in the wake of the failed Greek invasion of Turkey after WW1. Despite these examples, trade with Greece and Cyprus by the international community continued, and still continues. Why should those examples be ignored, if the rationale for condeming Turkey and it's nothern Cypriot puppet state be on the basis of nationalist crimes committed? Turkey certainly has dirty hands, true. But Greece's and Greek Cyprus' hands are not lilly-white either. Self-denial is a still-pervasive (and ultimately destructive) trait amongst both Cypriot communities, I'm afraid. If unification ever comes, a truth and reconciliation commission must convene and the full facts exposed. Otherside, it's all going to recur...

Utu you continue to talk about a time before the UN. Yes, the Turks invaded the Greeks, and oppressed the Greeks for 400 years, and then the Greeks revolted and fought back for their freedom. People from both sides got killed.

[Piratis]

dp