Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Murataga , Insan , the RoC is greatly helped by people such as you and others who are dismissed scornfully by the international community because your arguments are ludicrous .
The Turkish army invaded and forced thousands upon thousands of Cypriots to abandon their homes and become refugees in their own country . Some 35 years later , the T/C population in the occupied lands amounts to no more than perhaps 80 thousand , the International community knows from where the remainder of the population came from and under what circumstances , and it also knows that there will only be peace in Cyprus when the Cypriot people unite and together they demand the removal of the occupying army.

Crocodiles tears are seen for what they are , demanding a separate state on lands that have for generations belonged to the displaced Cypriots is absurd .
Let us hope that a solution based on all round fairness and justice is soon worked out. In the meantime there is but one Cyprus which has a part of it under the Turkish military rule. This is how the EU , the UN and the entire International community interpret the situation.

As for the nonsense about "genocide " of the T/Cs , the International community does not accept such claims.
Taken from the UK House of Commons select committee on foreign affairs.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 13we33.htm
"The Turkish Cypriot population in 1960 was 104,942 and in 1974 it was 115,758. As of 1974, however, reference to the numbers of the "Turkish Cypriots" also included the Turkish settlers. It is clear that the number of Turkish settlers was constantly rising. A census taken on 26.5.1990 to determine the number of voters before the next general election showed that the "Turkish Cypriot" population had reached 173,224. Mr Rauf Denktashh ultimately revealed why detailed population statistics were never disclosed: "If we disclose them, they will know who came from where!" (Yeni Duzen, 23 July 1993) "

With all the "genocide " taking place its amazing HOW the T/C population grew from 1960 to 1974 by some 11 thousand.
The International community furthermore is not made up of Michael Stevenses , there would not be enough land and villas to go round. Well known for his arduous work on promoting the "trnc" while ignoring that the Turkish invasion and occupation of the Northern part of Cyprus is continuing .

[halil]

Miltiades ,
I am not agreeing with your words ''the RoC is greatly helped by people such as you and others ''

today is 13 February my dear friend .... İt is the second day of the Limassol attacks .... İn this date of 1964 that TC's of Limassol were attack and killed .Where was the ''ROC'' at that time ..... by talking always by one sided does not help at all my dear friend . Our big problem is how we came to these days. First we must except this .what are the causes of the today times. Cyprus was independent state in 1960 . Where was the ''ROC'' to protect the break down the republic at those times ? There was no Turkish troops in those times .... where was the ''ROC'' .....
ROC was supplying the guns to murderers to kill the TC's .... proofs are in the museums now ....all the Russians ,Check guns ,tanks and mortars are on display now . Today is the day of the Limassol strugle of the TC's .

[paliometoxo]

Did the gcs deserve it when ottomans came to the island killing thousands of gcs when clearly gcs did nothing to them?

[Paphitis]

Miltiades ,
I am not agreeing with your words ''the RoC is greatly helped by people such as you and others ''

today is 13 February my dear friend .... İt is the second day of the Limassol attacks .... İn this date of 1964 that TC's of Limassol were attack and killed .Where was the ''ROC'' at that time ..... by talking always by one sided does not help at all my dear friend . Our big problem is how we came to these days. First we must except this .what are the causes of the today times. Cyprus was independent state in 1960 . Where was the ''ROC'' to protect the break down the republic at those times ? There was no Turkish troops in those times .... where was the ''ROC'' .....
ROC was supplying the guns to murderers to kill the TC's .... proofs are in the museums now ....all the Russians ,Check guns ,tanks and mortars are on display now . Today is the day of the Limassol strugle of the TC's .

The first victims of any Inter Communal Violence were GCs:

Next the British released from jail eight Greek Cypriot EOKA fighters, forcing them to walk through the Turkish village of Guenyeli, where they were quickly set upon and murdered. Thus began two months of violence by extremists on both sides, killing 56 Greeks and 53 Turks. Tellingly, the British arrested 2,000 Greeks, but only 60 Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

On 12 June 1958 eight innocent unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish Cypriot populated village of Geunyeli in an totally unprovoked attack, after being dropped off there by the British authorities. After this the Turkish government ordered the TMT to blow up the offices of the Turkish press office in Nicosia in order to falsely put the blame of the Greek Cypriots and prevent independence negotiations from succeeding. It also began a string of assassinations and murders of prominent Turkish Cypriot supporters of independence.

ON June 12 1958, eight innocent unarmed Greek Cypriots were murdered by TMT.

Further evidence that TCs instigated the first violent acts against GCs:

In June 1958 the British prime Minister Harold Macmillan was expected to proposed a plan to resolve the Cyprus issue. In light of the new development the Turks created fierce riots in Nicosia aiming to promote the idea that Greeks and Turks could not live together and therefore any plan that would promote that would not be viable, instead partition would be the only viable solution. This violence soon to be followed by bombing, Greek Cypriots deaths and looting of Greek owned stores and houses resulted in Greeks and Turks started to evade mixed populated villages that the respective were a minority in search of safety. This was effectively the beginning of segregation of the two communities.[8]. On the 7th of June 1958 a bomb exploded at the entrance of the Turkish Embassy in Cyprus. Following the bombing Turkish Cypriots looted Greek Cypriot properties. On June 26th 1984 the then Turkish Cypriot Leader, Rauf Denktaş, admitted on British channel ITV that the bomb was placed by the Turks themselves in order to create tension.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedi ... l-violence

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4EpCV2ysk

The TCs may have been attacked on 13 Feb 64 as a reprisal for this:

The First Cyprus Crisis

In the night from 20 to 21 December 1963, a car carrying weapons for Turkish Cypriots in the Omorfita, a district of Nicosia – where armed resistance was organized – was halted on a police roadblock. After a few minutes a large crowd, mainly consisting of Turkish Cypriots, assembled nearby and the situation heated up, resulting in exchange of fire in which one policeman and two Turks were killed. This mini-uprising of Turkish Cypriots ended by Christmas of the same year, but there more skirmishes followed, as since that time Turkey began systematically organising and arming students and men younger than 30 into small units, equipped with personal weapons, bazookas and mortars. [b]Several loads of food and ammunition were shipped from Turkey to Cyprus during the following winter, mainly by small boats and by night, which were landing in the Kokkina area.[/b]

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_454.shtml

[halil]

Miltiades ,
I am not agreeing with your words ''the RoC is greatly helped by people such as you and others ''

today is 13 February my dear friend .... İt is the second day of the Limassol attacks .... İn this date of 1964 that TC's of Limassol were attack and killed .Where was the ''ROC'' at that time ..... by talking always by one sided does not help at all my dear friend . Our big problem is how we came to these days. First we must except this .what are the causes of the today times. Cyprus was independent state in 1960 . Where was the ''ROC'' to protect the break down the republic at those times ? There was no Turkish troops in those times .... where was the ''ROC'' .....
ROC was supplying the guns to murderers to kill the TC's .... proofs are in the museums now ....all the Russians ,Check guns ,tanks and mortars are on display now . Today is the day of the Limassol strugle of the TC's .

The first victims of any Inter Communal Violence were GCs:

Next the British released from jail eight Greek Cypriot EOKA fighters, forcing them to walk through the Turkish village of Guenyeli, where they were quickly set upon and murdered. Thus began two months of violence by extremists on both sides, killing 56 Greeks and 53 Turks. Tellingly, the British arrested 2,000 Greeks, but only 60 Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

On 12 June 1958 eight innocent unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish Cypriot populated village of Geunyeli in an totally unprovoked attack, after being dropped off there by the British authorities. After this the Turkish government ordered the TMT to blow up the offices of the Turkish press office in Nicosia in order to falsely put the blame of the Greek Cypriots and prevent independence negotiations from succeeding. It also began a string of assassinations and murders of prominent Turkish Cypriot supporters of independence.

ON June 12 1958, eight innocent unarmed Greek Cypriots were murdered by TMT.

Further evidence that TCs instigated the first violent acts against GCs:

In June 1958 the British prime Minister Harold Macmillan was expected to proposed a plan to resolve the Cyprus issue. In light of the new development the Turks created fierce riots in Nicosia aiming to promote the idea that Greeks and Turks could not live together and therefore any plan that would promote that would not be viable, instead partition would be the only viable solution. This violence soon to be followed by bombing, Greek Cypriots deaths and looting of Greek owned stores and houses resulted in Greeks and Turks started to evade mixed populated villages that the respective were a minority in search of safety. This was effectively the beginning of segregation of the two communities.[8]. On the 7th of June 1958 a bomb exploded at the entrance of the Turkish Embassy in Cyprus. Following the bombing Turkish Cypriots looted Greek Cypriot properties. On June 26th 1984 the then Turkish Cypriot Leader, Rauf Denktaş, admitted on British channel ITV that the bomb was placed by the Turks themselves in order to create tension.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedi ... l-violence

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4EpCV2ysk

The TCs may have been attacked on 13 Feb 64 as a reprisal for this:

The First Cyprus Crisis

In the night from 20 to 21 December 1963, a car carrying weapons for Turkish Cypriots in the Omorfita, a district of Nicosia – where armed resistance was organized – was halted on a police roadblock. After a few minutes a large crowd, mainly consisting of Turkish Cypriots, assembled nearby and the situation heated up, resulting in exchange of fire in which one policeman and two Turks were killed. This mini-uprising of Turkish Cypriots ended by Christmas of the same year, but there more skirmishes followed, as since that time Turkey began systematically organising and arming students and men younger than 30 into small units, equipped with personal weapons, bazookas and mortars. [b]Several loads of food and ammunition were shipped from Turkey to Cyprus during the following winter, mainly by small boats and by night, which were landing in the Kokkina area.[/b]

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_454.shtml

thats what your propaganda books says Bafidi ..... read the British parliament reports and newspaper reports ..... Before UN came to Cyprus . Also people who are being all those bloody times .We are talking about ''ROC'' times not the 1950's . We are talking about how the ''ROC'' is destroyed .

[insan]

Miltiades ,
I am not agreeing with your words ''the RoC is greatly helped by people such as you and others ''

today is 13 February my dear friend .... İt is the second day of the Limassol attacks .... İn this date of 1964 that TC's of Limassol were attack and killed .Where was the ''ROC'' at that time ..... by talking always by one sided does not help at all my dear friend . Our big problem is how we came to these days. First we must except this .what are the causes of the today times. Cyprus was independent state in 1960 . Where was the ''ROC'' to protect the break down the republic at those times ? There was no Turkish troops in those times .... where was the ''ROC'' .....
ROC was supplying the guns to murderers to kill the TC's .... proofs are in the museums now ....all the Russians ,Check guns ,tanks and mortars are on display now . Today is the day of the Limassol strugle of the TC's .

I agree with u Halil. Miltiadis point of view is totally one sided because in his dreams we r all belong to so-called Cypriot nation or TC community is a minority group in the so-called Cypriot nation that it's leaders have always talked about Hellenism, National interests of Hellenes and National cause of Hellenes. Miltiades thinks that TCs r both deaf and blind not to hear and see what was going on just afterwrds the foundation of RoC. TCs were happy with the RoC at least till 1962 in the meantime aware of that for some self-interest groups of Hellenes the 60s treaties were not satisfactory just because no self-determination right granted to the so-called Cypriot nation. The self-interest groups of Hellenes prepared themselves to sail close to the wind in awareness of the highly probable to occure consequences. They were aware of that if they failed in this struggle of self-determination right of so-called Cypriot nation; it would have lead them to partition. TCs priority have always been "political equality of 2 communities" since 1878 but self-interest groups of Hellenes have never given a chance to 2 communities coexist in a consociational governance system. Since 1878, it's been almost 120 years. Had the self-interest groups of Hellenes given a chance for consociational governance system for 2 communities; sure Cypriots might have evolved into one nation in 120 years. Miltiades, open ur mind and see the facts and realities my friend.

[Piratis]

Is the UN supposed to accept methods of foreign invasion, ethnic cleansing, land grab, and importing of Settlers as a way of creating countries?

I hate to say this, Piratis, but most of the countries of Asia, Africa, the Americas, and Oceania have governments as memebers of the UN who came about originally by ethnic cleansing, land grab, and settler importation. Australia is a good example of that. So is North America, Cental, and South America, and islands in the Pacific. They are tolerated, so your argument here really does not hold all that much water, unfortunately.

Those countries were created long before the UN and before International Law, at a time when slavery and other nasty things were all "legal". So what doesn't hold water is your lame excuse, because in fact the UN does not and will not recognize any "state" created by means of foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing.

Really? Because I know for a fact that you were able to pass as the RoC in the U.N. during the 60s when you had: ethnically cleansed thousands of TCs, prevented them from returning to their homes, prevented them from attending their government, invited and were harboring thousands of troops of the Hellenic Army which in effect was an an invasive force; and all of which occured before 1974, before the TRNC was established, and before GCs were making claims about being displaced.

The currently recognized "RoC" was created precisely by "means of foreign invasion" (Greek Army and the illegal "CNG", EOKA-B which it supported) and "ethnic cleansing" (of the TCs).

You can't change history by lies Murataga.

In the 1950s the TCs attacked the Cypriots and collaborated with the British colonialists in order to enforce in Cyprus an unfair and undemocratic system that benefited foreigners and their small minority on the expense of the Cypriot people.

In 1960s democratic reforms were proposed by the democratically elected president of Cyprus, but the Turkish minority insisted on the undemocratic and disproportional privileges that were granted to them by foreigners and they choose to re-start the conflict against Cypriots with the help of Turkey which provided them weapons for their terrorist attacks against innocent people. The conflict resumed, and more people from both sides died. When you start a conflict then you should blame yourselves first and then everybody else, for the casualties that you had in the conflicts that you started.

As I have shown many times all conflicts in Cyprus were started by the Turks, who invaded our island multiple times, and then in addition to their army they also used the Settlers they brought to our island in order to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom. Something like what Israel does with the occupied Palestinian territories.

Today the Republic of Cyprus is ruled in the most democratic way. The government is chosen by the people of Cyprus, one person one vote. Members of your minority are free to participate as well, and some done, although most of you still insist on imposing on Cyprus Ottoman style privileges for yourselves on the expense of everybody else.

Tell me utu, what do you think of Hitler and the Nazis? Did you support them as well? Because the "argument" that you make could have been made by Hitler as well to excuse his own crimes.

That is rich coming from an individual whose sole "argument" is that it was alright for the GCs side to disregard their side of the agreements because they deserved better and at the same time blaming the TCs for not abiding by the rules that he likes. You are a monument to hypocrisy.

The hypocrisy is the Turks demanding Ottoman Style privileges and land gains for their small minority in Cyprus, a minority which was the result of a relatively recent colonialism, while at the same time denying even the basic human rights to the Kurdish or Greek minorities in Turkey, which are people who existed in Asia Minor for far longer than the Turks.

The Cypriot people will not capitulate to any invader. We will continue to fight for what is right: Freedom, democracy and human rights for all Cypriots without racist discrimination and segregation that some foreigners want to impose.

Turkey might have 75 million people, a big army that invades sovereign countries, the USA as their close ally, a big market, oil pipes etc, but we have one thing one our side: justice.

[utu]

[quote='Piratus']Those countries were created long before the UN and before International Law, at a time when slavery and other nasty things were all "legal". So what doesn't hold water is your lame excuse, because in fact the UN does not and will not recognize any "state" created by means of foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing. [/quote]


Piratis,

So I guess that what you're saying is that as long as the invading/colonizing/ethnic cleansing thing was done BEFORE a certain date, then it is perfectly all right...
You'd better stop drinking decaffeinated coffee and realize that this type of thing continues to this day in other parts of the world, and it is basically tolerated on a tacit level. Oh, you'll hear a few empty words of protest, and a few symbolic sanctions which don't much interfere with the business of the day, but that's about it. Why should the Cyprus situation be any different? With the world as messed up as it is now, it's not going to matter much in the grand scale of things...

[Piratis]

Miltiades ,
I am not agreeing with your words ''the RoC is greatly helped by people such as you and others ''

today is 13 February my dear friend .... İt is the second day of the Limassol attacks .... İn this date of 1964 that TC's of Limassol were attack and killed .Where was the ''ROC'' at that time ..... by talking always by one sided does not help at all my dear friend . Our big problem is how we came to these days. First we must except this .what are the causes of the today times. Cyprus was independent state in 1960 . Where was the ''ROC'' to protect the break down the republic at those times ? There was no Turkish troops in those times .... where was the ''ROC'' .....
ROC was supplying the guns to murderers to kill the TC's .... proofs are in the museums now ....all the Russians ,Check guns ,tanks and mortars are on display now . Today is the day of the Limassol strugle of the TC's .

I agree with u Halil. Miltiadis point of view is totally one sided because in his dreams we r all belong to so-called Cypriot nation or TC community is a minority group in the so-called Cypriot nation that it's leaders have always talked about Hellenism, National interests of Hellenes and National cause of Hellenes. Miltiades thinks that TCs r both deaf and blind not to hear and see what was going on just afterwrds the foundation of RoC. TCs were happy with the RoC at least till 1962 in the meantime aware of that for some self-interest groups of Hellenes the 60s treaties were not satisfactory just because no self-determination right granted to the so-called Cypriot nation. The self-interest groups of Hellenes prepared themselves to sail close to the wind in awareness of the highly probable to occure consequences. They were aware of that if they failed in this struggle of self-determination right of so-called Cypriot nation; it would have lead them to partition. TCs priority have always been "political equality of 2 communities" since 1878 but self-interest groups of Hellenes have never given a chance to 2 communities coexist in a consociational governance system. Since 1878, it's been almost 120 years. Had the self-interest groups of Hellenes given a chance for consociational governance system for 2 communities; sure Cypriots might have evolved into one nation in 120 years. Miltiades, open ur mind and see the facts and realities my friend.

Insan, Cyprus is part of the Greek Nation.

All Greek territories came under the Ottomans at some point. In fact Athens fall to the Ottomans in 1456, while Cyprus more than a century later, in 1571. The Ottomans also ruled over many other Nations, not just Greeks.

In many of the territories that the Ottomans ruled, Muslim minorities were formed, either because the Ottomans colonized those territories with populations that were already Muslim, or because native people of those territories became Muslims in order to enjoy privileges (since Christians were treated as second category people)

The Greeks (and all other nations that were under Ottoman rule) had every right for their self-determination. The Cypriot people, along with the Athenians, Cretans, and every other Greek, of course had the right for their self-determination and freedom as well.

The Cypriot people could use their self-determination to unite with whomever they wanted. How could it be fine for Cyprus to be part of the Ottoman or British empires, and Cypriots the subjects of those empires against their will, but not fine for Cyprus to be part of a free Greek Republic, where Cypriots would be equal citizens of a Republic they democratically choose to be part of???

Accepting to create a Cypriot Nation was a compromise. But unfortunately the Turks and the British did not allow for a fully independent and truly democratic Cyprus to exist.

They simply denied Cyprus its right to be part of the Greek Republic in order to isolate Cyprus and in this way continue to exploit Cyprus and Cypriots in the same way they had done when Cyprus was under their empires.

Today we continue to have the good will to create a Cypriot Nation, and have made many efforts in this direction. You can already see many Cypriots that feel part of this Cypriot Nation.

But for the Turks this is not enough. What they want is to continue oppression our island and enforce their rule over Cyprus. For them it is irrelevant if Cyprus is part of a Greek Nation or part of a Cypriot Nation. What is important to them is how they will continue to oppress the rights of the people of this island, and they continue using their army and their settlers in order to get what they want.

[Get Real!]

Because I know for a fact that you were able to pass as the RoC in the U.N. during the 60s when you had: ethnically cleansed thousands of TCs, prevented them from returning to their homes, prevented them from attending their government...

You'd have to prove all these allegations with credible evidence first, BEFORE you use them as the basis of your argument.