Cyprus-Forum.com

[74LB]

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_appen.html

[74LB]

Anyone know what happened to the TC's between these dates ?

1963 120,000
1972 78,000

Nothing happened. Look under the table and you will see: "Figures through 1960 are based on Ottoman and British estimates and censuses. Figures thereafter are provided by Turkish Cypriot authorities. "

You only have to look at the figure they give for 1978 of 146,740 to understand they are lying. As if it is possible to double the population in 6 years

Here are the real figures during that period:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 19734. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

Hold on a second.
When it suits you, you use the figures to back up your argument, but when we ask a question using figures from the same site, then they don't count

[insan]

...intense emotional violence created by GC nationalists...

Was that from not being able to murder them by the thousands any more like you were used to before?

...all negatively affected the migration rate, development and fertility rate of TCs.

That's the stuff that huge class action lawsuits are made of...

As far as i know there had been no murdering attempts towards the ordinary GCs under the Ottoman rule. Only the ones involved in spreading Greek nationalism in order to organize and provoke GCs against Ottoman rule, executed.

Yes but you don't know very much about Cyprus remember... so why don't you ask next time?

The Ottomans began slaughtering Cypriots from the very moment they landed outside of Limassol, and when they reached Nicosia some 20,000 people were murdered... nice start to happiness!

You’d think that a Turkish Cypriot would be an expert on Ottoman history…

I said under the Ottoman rule, not during the conquer of Cyprus by Ottomans. So, if u r not capable to understand what i said, don't waste my time. Sorry GR! but r really an embryonic "ape".

And do u remeber that u told me whom Ottomans killed during the conquest were the Venetians but not the GCs.

[Piratis]

According to the link of insan, the population of Cyprus:

Year Population
1491 168,000
1575 180,000
1881 186,200
1891 209,300
1901 237,000
1911 274,100
1921 310,700
1931 348,000
1946 450,100
1960 573,600
1973 631,800

Note how the population of Cyprus increases quite fast normally except during the Ottoman era. Between 1575 and 1881, that is 306 years, the population of Cyprus had only increased by 6000 people!!! 6000 people in 306 years!!!

But thats not all. As insan tells us, during the Ottoman era 60.000 TCs were created. This means that the native population of Cyprus was actually reduced to 126.000 by the time the Ottomans were done with Cyprus!!

Then when the Ottoman rule ended, the population of Cyprus started to increase normally again and within 92 years the population had increased by 445.000.

This shows that while the Ottomans were ruling Cyprus they were actively exterminating the native population, replacing them with Turkish Settlers. That is how the Turkish minority was created in Cyprus.

This is one such extermination of the native population, where the Turks killed 20.000 Cypriots within days:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

And then insan tells us that his minority has been larger during Ottoman times! Of course insan. Since you didn't let the native population to increase and you decreased it by massacres and oppression, of course your minority would be larger in comparison back then!

In 1571 around 35.000 Ottoman Turks settled in Cyprus why had'nt the population of Ottoman Turks trippled in 300+ years of Ottoman rule? Because Ottoman Turks and Hellen Orthodoxes massacreing each other? [/quote]

Probably they were less than 35.000. But even if it was 35.000 that means there population almost doubled. If the same increase rate was allowed for the native population then by 1881 we would have been about 350.000.

[Oracle]

Anyone know what happened to the TC's between these dates ?

1963 120,000
1972 78,000

Nothing happened. Look under the table and you will see: "Figures through 1960 are based on Ottoman and British estimates and censuses. Figures thereafter are provided by Turkish Cypriot authorities. "

You only have to look at the figure they give for 1978 of 146,740 to understand they are lying. As if it is possible to double the population in 6 years

Here are the real figures during that period:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 19734. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

That is brilliant eye for detail Piratis ... the subtle switch over from one source to another!

[Piratis]

Anyone know what happened to the TC's between these dates ?

1963 120,000
1972 78,000

Nothing happened. Look under the table and you will see: "Figures through 1960 are based on Ottoman and British estimates and censuses. Figures thereafter are provided by Turkish Cypriot authorities. "

You only have to look at the figure they give for 1978 of 146,740 to understand they are lying. As if it is possible to double the population in 6 years

Here are the real figures during that period:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 19734. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

That is brilliant eye for detail Piratis ... the subtle switch over from one source to another!

The first source was what insan gave

[denizaksulu]

According to the link of insan, the population of Cyprus:

Year Population
1491 168,000
1575 180,000
1881 186,200
1891 209,300
1901 237,000
1911 274,100
1921 310,700
1931 348,000
1946 450,100
1960 573,600
1973 631,800

Note how the population of Cyprus increases quite fast normally except during the Ottoman era. Between 1575 and 1881, that is 306 years, the population of Cyprus had only increased by 6000 people!!! 6000 people in 306 years!!!

But thats not all. As insan tells us, during the Ottoman era 60.000 TCs were created. This means that the native population of Cyprus was actually reduced to 126.000 by the time the Ottomans were done with Cyprus!!

Then when the Ottoman rule ended, the population of Cyprus started to increase normally again and within 92 years the population had increased by 445.000.

This shows that while the Ottomans were ruling Cyprus they were actively exterminating the native population, replacing them with Turkish Settlers. That is how the Turkish minority was created in Cyprus.

This is one such extermination of the native population, where the Turks killed 20.000 Cypriots within days:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

And then insan tells us that his minority has been larger during Ottoman times! Of course insan. Since you didn't let the native population to increase and you decreased it by massacres and oppression, of course your minority would be larger in comparison back then!

[/quote]


What a load of bull from Piratis. Can you imagine a proper census ever being carried out in Cyprus during the years you have noted? You need a reality check. They can be nothing but estimates. Estimates provided by the church probably. Especially conjured to reduce the tax due to the tax collecteors (which were usually the Bishops/Priests) or even to reduce the numbers of men joining the Ottoman Army proably as devshirmes.

Forget what I said, just provide CREDIBLE EVIDENCE.

[insan]

According to the link of insan, the population of Cyprus:

Year Population
1491 168,000
1575 180,000
1881 186,200
1891 209,300
1901 237,000
1911 274,100
1921 310,700
1931 348,000
1946 450,100
1960 573,600
1973 631,800

Note how the population of Cyprus increases quite fast normally except during the Ottoman era. Between 1575 and 1881, that is 306 years, the population of Cyprus had only increased by 6000 people!!! 6000 people in 306 years!!!

But thats not all. As insan tells us, during the Ottoman era 60.000 TCs were created. This means that the native population of Cyprus was actually reduced to 126.000 by the time the Ottomans were done with Cyprus!!

Then when the Ottoman rule ended, the population of Cyprus started to increase normally again and within 92 years the population had increased by 445.000.

This shows that while the Ottomans were ruling Cyprus they were actively exterminating the native population, replacing them with Turkish Settlers. That is how the Turkish minority was created in Cyprus.

This is one such extermination of the native population, where the Turks killed 20.000 Cypriots within days:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

And then insan tells us that his minority has been larger during Ottoman times! Of course insan. Since you didn't let the native population to increase and you decreased it by massacres and oppression, of course your minority would be larger in comparison back then!

In 1571 around 35.000 Ottoman Turks settled in Cyprus why had'nt the population of Ottoman Turks trippled in 300+ years of Ottoman rule? Because Ottoman Turks and Hellen Orthodoxes massacreing each other?

Probably they were less than 35.000. But even if it was 35.000 that means there population almost doubled. If the same increase rate was allowed for the native population then by 1881 we would have been about 350.000.[/quote]

So Piratis, because of many reasons; most probably the main reason was the independence of Greece they migrated to Greece during that period of time but quickly labeling it with genocide by Ottomans; shows how prejudiced u r towards Turks.

[Piratis]

Anyone know what happened to the TC's between these dates ?

1963 120,000
1972 78,000

Nothing happened. Look under the table and you will see: "Figures through 1960 are based on Ottoman and British estimates and censuses. Figures thereafter are provided by Turkish Cypriot authorities. "

You only have to look at the figure they give for 1978 of 146,740 to understand they are lying. As if it is possible to double the population in 6 years

Here are the real figures during that period:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 19734. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

Hold on a second.
When it suits you, you use the figures to back up your argument, but when we ask a question using figures from the same site, then they don't count

The first source was given by insan, not me. Certain things like the census from the British of 1881 we can trusted as independent, other things obviously are not. I don't even know if what the Ottoman say is correct. Maybe there were never 60.000 TCs as they claim, but their number was always much less, as the British found in 1881.

[Kikapu]

The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.

TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.

So that would be the fault of the British, wouldn't it, if your figures are correct. The British ruled until 1960, so when was it that the "TC's" numbers were at 35%, in 1571 or what.?

Not only the changed British mentality followed ww2 but intense emotional violence created by GC nationalists as well.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_appen.html

Just before the Ottomans ceded Cyprus to the Brits, TC population was 60.000 out of 186.000 total population of Cyprus.

Table 7. Turkish Cypriot Population, Selected Dates, Sixteenth Century to 1988
Date Population*
Sixteenth century 40,000 to 60,000
Eighteenth century 60,000
1881 45,458
1911 56,428
1921 61,339
1931 64,245
1946 80,548
1960 104,333
1963 120,000
1972 78,000
1978 146,740
1982 152,239
1986 162,676
1988 167,256

So basically, when the British took over the island, 15,000 Ottomans (TC's) went back to "Turkey" than be ruled by the British, which makes sense. How does any of this exodus by the Ottomans involve the GC's.?

I've told u above. Not only the changed British mentality following ww2 but intense emotional violence created by GC nationalists as well. Besides the mutual armed struggle afterwards mid-50s; all negatively affected the migration rate, development and fertility rate of TCs.

Do you have anymore excuses ,Insan, because you keep changing the reasons. You said there were 60,000 TC's at one point, which was between 16th and 18th century and it seems according to the chart in the link you gave, that the 3rd of the TC's left the island in 1881 when the British took over the island, so stop with all the other excuses for god sake about the WWII, GC nationalist and lack of "boinking" to produce more babies, because I come from a large family of kids. Since 1881, the TC's numbers continued to climb until between 1963 and 1974 for obvious reasons, but when ever the GC and TC population percentages are discussed today, they are given 82%-18%, which are from the 1960 figures when the RoC was formed.!