Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, consociationalism failed in Cyprus because the ultra nationalist of Hellenes in collaboration with GC extremists, exerted extremely to make it fail.

What's that got to do with the price of cheese in Denmark.!

The point is, it was a bad system that created violent reactions and it should have never been used in the first place, because the "consociationalism" you very proudly like to present to us did not even live up to it's own principles when applied in Cyprus. It was a failed system from the beginning and should never be experimented with again in Cyprus.!

Try True Democracy in Cyprus next time.!

[Get Real!]

The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.

TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.

But in early 1570, the GC population was like 95% and the Turkish Cypriots 0%, and it doesn't get any more MINOR than that does it?

[Turk_Green_Eyes]

It's a shame all you can see is hate without wishing to alleviate it practically. It adds to it of course with shortsighted statements about "Turkish Blood" or "Greek DNA".

I don't think the CyProb can be excused away with such divisive views as you express, about the "bodily" differences between GCs and TCs.

Instead, concentrate on the behaviour which causes the emotions associated with pain, suffering and injustice.

If you pick up a hot object you drop it pretty fast. The pain of blistering has the same effect in your brain as the pain of the suffering we GCs have experienced from one or two or three times that Turkey has bombed and hurt the Island.

Yet one shouldn't just concentrate on the pain of the blister ... but learn to avoid the hot stuff which caused the pain (hate). Take safeguards to minimise such hurt continuing to happen.

So look at the cause, having learnt from the pain of the effect.

My statements are not short- sighted as you say. And I am certainly not talking about "bodily differences". Please point out where?

I have stated my view and it is people like you that are clearly too narrow minded to even attempt to understand it. I agree 100% where you say take safeguards, I agree that in certain situations yes one should take safeguards and be weary, to protect themselves. But at the same time do you realise that our country is now home to a new generation of GC's and TC's. And the hurt will always be there I'm not going to lie... but if I understand what you're saying correctly, you're saying you want to avoid all Turks and TC's because of the pain they have caused to so many Greeks in the past. You cannot and should not tar everybody of one race or nationality with the same brush. That is an example of narrow-mindedness in itself.
I am not in a position to state how I would feel if I were a GC, because as I've already stated, in respect to the Greek Cypriots who endured so much pain, I could never even begin to imagine what it felt like. But at the same time I believe it is the responsibility for the new generation to understand what has happened, and persevere in trying to overcome the problem and segregation, however, not in way which takes away respect and understanding for the grief caused. I am not being naive in what I believe is right, I have basic good moral values, hate needs to be eliminated, and replaced by understanding and questions need to be answered. If the same hate is in the hearts of the TC's and GC's over the generations, we are going around in circles. Like I've said, and other people have said, the hate is not everywhere, but it is still alive.

[Piratis]

It's a shame all you can see is hate without wishing to alleviate it practically. It adds to it of course with shortsighted statements about "Turkish Blood" or "Greek DNA".

I don't think the CyProb can be excused away with such divisive views as you express, about the "bodily" differences between GCs and TCs.

Instead, concentrate on the behaviour which causes the emotions associated with pain, suffering and injustice.

If you pick up a hot object you drop it pretty fast. The pain of blistering has the same effect in your brain as the pain of the suffering we GCs have experienced from one or two or three times that Turkey has bombed and hurt the Island.

Yet one shouldn't just concentrate on the pain of the blister ... but learn to avoid the hot stuff which caused the pain (hate). Take safeguards to minimise such hurt continuing to happen.

So look at the cause, having learnt from the pain of the effect.

My statements are not short- sighted as you say. And I am certainly not talking about "bodily differences". Please point out where?

I have stated my view and it is people like you that are clearly too narrow minded to even attempt to understand it. I agree 100% where you say take safeguards, I agree that in certain situations yes one should take safeguards and be weary, to protect themselves. But at the same time do you realise that our country is now home to a new generation of GC's and TC's. And the hurt will always be there I'm not going to lie... but if I understand what you're saying correctly, you're saying you want to avoid all Turks and TC's because of the pain they have caused to so many Greeks in the past. You cannot and should not tar everybody of one race or nationality with the same brush. That is an example of narrow-mindedness in itself.
I am not in a position to state how I would feel if I were a GC, because as I've already stated, in respect to the Greek Cypriots who endured so much pain, I could never even begin to imagine what it felt like. But at the same time I believe it is the responsibility for the new generation to understand what has happened, and persevere in trying to overcome the problem and segregation, however, not in way which takes away respect and understanding for the grief caused. I am not being naive in what I believe is right, I have basic good moral values, hate needs to be eliminated, and replaced by understanding and questions need to be answered. If the same hate is in the hearts of the TC's and GC's over the generations, we are going around in circles. Like I've said, and other people have said, the hate is not everywhere, but it is still alive.

Hate has much less to do with the past, and much more to do with what is happening now. If you count the invaders of Cyprus you will find a long list. You don't see any Cypriots hating the Venetians, the French or the Persians because of what happened in the past.

If freedom, democracy and human rights are allowed in Cyprus, then within a decade all that hate would be gone. At most, all that would remain would be tiny minorities of racists, as they exist in every other country.

[insan]

The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.

TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.

So that would be the fault of the British, wouldn't it, if your figures are correct. The British ruled until 1960, so when was it that the "TC's" numbers were at 35%, in 1571 or what.?

Not only the changed British mentality followed ww2 but intense emotional violence created by GC nationalists as well.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_appen.html

Just before the Ottomans ceded Cyprus to the Brits, TC population was 60.000 out of 186.000 total population of Cyprus.

[Kikapu]

The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.

TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.

So that would be the fault of the British, wouldn't it, if your figures are correct. The British ruled until 1960, so when was it that the "TC's" numbers were at 35%, in 1571 or what.?

Not only the changed British mentality followed ww2 but intense emotional violence created by GC nationalists as well.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_appen.html

Just before the Ottomans ceded Cyprus to the Brits, TC population was 60.000 out of 186.000 total population of Cyprus.

Table 7. Turkish Cypriot Population, Selected Dates, Sixteenth Century to 1988
Date Population*
Sixteenth century 40,000 to 60,000
Eighteenth century 60,000
1881 45,458
1911 56,428
1921 61,339
1931 64,245
1946 80,548
1960 104,333
1963 120,000
1972 78,000
1978 146,740
1982 152,239
1986 162,676
1988 167,256

So basically, when the British took over the island, 15,000 Ottomans (TC's) went back to "Turkey" than be ruled by the British, which makes sense. How does any of this exodus by the Ottomans involve the GC's.?

[Oracle]

It's a shame all you can see is hate without wishing to alleviate it practically. It adds to it of course with shortsighted statements about "Turkish Blood" or "Greek DNA".

I don't think the CyProb can be excused away with such divisive views as you express, about the "bodily" differences between GCs and TCs.

Instead, concentrate on the behaviour which causes the emotions associated with pain, suffering and injustice.

If you pick up a hot object you drop it pretty fast. The pain of blistering has the same effect in your brain as the pain of the suffering we GCs have experienced from one or two or three times that Turkey has bombed and hurt the Island.

Yet one shouldn't just concentrate on the pain of the blister ... but learn to avoid the hot stuff which caused the pain (hate). Take safeguards to minimise such hurt continuing to happen.

So look at the cause, having learnt from the pain of the effect.

My statements are not short- sighted as you say. And I am certainly not talking about "bodily differences". Please point out where?

Here ....

I'm greatful for the Turkish blood I have, I'm greatful for the tan color of my skin, I'm greatful for my big green eyes, I'm greatful for my curly dark "turkish" hair.

Shamelessly you are trying to make out there is little reason for hate (a normal human emotion to pain and suffering) within the CyProb. As though the status quo should suffice!

True, Turks have very little reason to hate the GCs ... because it is the GCs that are still suffering, whilst the Turks enjoy much in gains.

Your attempt at earnest portrayal of pathos, is not uniquely attributable to you ... it's something we all feel, but you misuse this i.e. you are capitalising.

What is unreasonable is for you to ignore the 40% of Cyprus under occupation ... which you carefully do not address ... Either accept there are causes which need to be removed so that the human spirit can prevail in peace, or admit you are just another Turk out to accuse the GCs of having no reasons to complain any more ... a bit like Zan and VP ... but clearly craftier

Whilst the Turks still occupy our lands ... it is only the Turks that are without excuses for the hate they feel against GCs ....

Sorry ... but until Cyprus is free of the Turkish occupation you have no reason to silence us.

[insan]

The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.

TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.

So that would be the fault of the British, wouldn't it, if your figures are correct. The British ruled until 1960, so when was it that the "TC's" numbers were at 35%, in 1571 or what.?

Not only the changed British mentality followed ww2 but intense emotional violence created by GC nationalists as well.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_appen.html

Just before the Ottomans ceded Cyprus to the Brits, TC population was 60.000 out of 186.000 total population of Cyprus.

Table 7. Turkish Cypriot Population, Selected Dates, Sixteenth Century to 1988
Date Population*
Sixteenth century 40,000 to 60,000
Eighteenth century 60,000
1881 45,458
1911 56,428
1921 61,339
1931 64,245
1946 80,548
1960 104,333
1963 120,000
1972 78,000
1978 146,740
1982 152,239
1986 162,676
1988 167,256

So basically, when the British took over the island, 15,000 Ottomans (TC's) went back to "Turkey" than be ruled by the British, which makes sense. How does any of this exodus by the Ottomans involve the GC's.?

I've told u above. Not only the changed British mentality following ww2 but intense emotional violence created by GC nationalists as well. Besides the mutual armed struggle afterwards mid-50s; all negatively affected the migration rate, development and fertility rate of TCs.

[miltiades]

It's a shame all you can see is hate without wishing to alleviate it practically. It adds to it of course with shortsighted statements about "Turkish Blood" or "Greek DNA".

I don't think the CyProb can be excused away with such divisive views as you express, about the "bodily" differences between GCs and TCs.

Instead, concentrate on the behaviour which causes the emotions associated with pain, suffering and injustice.

If you pick up a hot object you drop it pretty fast. The pain of blistering has the same effect in your brain as the pain of the suffering we GCs have experienced from one or two or three times that Turkey has bombed and hurt the Island.

Yet one shouldn't just concentrate on the pain of the blister ... but learn to avoid the hot stuff which caused the pain (hate). Take safeguards to minimise such hurt continuing to happen.

So look at the cause, having learnt from the pain of the effect.

My statements are not short- sighted as you say. And I am certainly not talking about "bodily differences". Please point out where?

I have stated my view and it is people like you that are clearly too narrow minded to even attempt to understand it. I agree 100% where you say take safeguards, I agree that in certain situations yes one should take safeguards and be weary, to protect themselves. But at the same time do you realise that our country is now home to a new generation of GC's and TC's. And the hurt will always be there I'm not going to lie... but if I understand what you're saying correctly, you're saying you want to avoid all Turks and TC's because of the pain they have caused to so many Greeks in the past. You cannot and should not tar everybody of one race or nationality with the same brush. That is an example of narrow-mindedness in itself.
I am not in a position to state how I would feel if I were a GC, because as I've already stated, in respect to the Greek Cypriots who endured so much pain, I could never even begin to imagine what it felt like. But at the same time I believe it is the responsibility for the new generation to understand what has happened, and persevere in trying to overcome the problem and segregation, however, not in way which takes away respect and understanding for the grief caused. I am not being naive in what I believe is right, I have basic good moral values, hate needs to be eliminated, and replaced by understanding and questions need to be answered. If the same hate is in the hearts of the TC's and GC's over the generations, we are going around in circles. Like I've said, and other people have said, the hate is not everywhere, but it is still alive.

You come across as a very genuine and sensible person. I like your views and you give me hope that our youth of today have a far better chance of reconciling their differences and living in peace than we had in the past.
I have two grandchildren born in Cyprus and my utmost wish is to see them grow without fear and conflict without hatred and manipulation. I swore that I shall never stand by and watch their little minds being infiltrated with hate and tribalistic nonsense.
Our T/C brothers and sisters are closer to us than the foreign so called motherlands .

[Turk_Green_Eyes]

It's a shame all you can see is hate without wishing to alleviate it practically. It adds to it of course with shortsighted statements about "Turkish Blood" or "Greek DNA".

I don't think the CyProb can be excused away with such divisive views as you express, about the "bodily" differences between GCs and TCs.

Instead, concentrate on the behaviour which causes the emotions associated with pain, suffering and injustice.

If you pick up a hot object you drop it pretty fast. The pain of blistering has the same effect in your brain as the pain of the suffering we GCs have experienced from one or two or three times that Turkey has bombed and hurt the Island.

Yet one shouldn't just concentrate on the pain of the blister ... but learn to avoid the hot stuff which caused the pain (hate). Take safeguards to minimise such hurt continuing to happen.

So look at the cause, having learnt from the pain of the effect.

My statements are not short- sighted as you say. And I am certainly not talking about "bodily differences". Please point out where?

Here ....

I'm greatful for the Turkish blood I have, I'm greatful for the tan color of my skin, I'm greatful for my big green eyes, I'm greatful for my curly dark "turkish" hair.

Shamelessly you are trying to make out there is little reason for hate (a normal human emotion to pain and suffering) within the CyProb. As though the status quo should suffice!

True, Turks have very little reason to hate the GCs ... because it is the GCs that are still suffering, whilst the Turks enjoy much in gains.

Your attempt at earnest portrayal of pathos, is not uniquely attributable to you ... it's something we all feel, but you misuse this i.e. you are capitalising.

What is unreasonable is for you to ignore the 40% of Cyprus under occupation ... which you carefully do not address ... Either accept there are causes which need to be removed so that the human spirit can prevail in peace, or admit you are just another Turk out to accuse the GCs of having no reasons to complain any more ... a bit like Zan and VP ... but clearly craftier

Whilst the Turks still occupy our lands ... it is only the Turks that are without excuses for the hate they feel against GCs ....

Sorry ... but until Cyprus is free of the Turkish occupation you have no reason to silence us.

Bodily differences, what I said was just describing the way I'm greatful of how my Turkish roots are reflected in my appearance. I'm not making such a huge thing out of different in appearance. It wasn't exactly a controversial comment..

I am addressing the issue of part of the island under Turkish occupation. How many times do I have to say...can you hate every single person who is a "Turk" because of the ones who caused hurt to Greeks? Not everybody is the same. And the hurt that has already been caused will never be taken away, but why isit manifesting into hate towards ALL turks still these years later? Why do you seem to think I'm just "another Turk?" I've made clear that I have nothing against Greek Cypriots in any way, shape or form. But why isit that many GC's seem to have found it within them to accept that not all people of turkish heritage are the same. Sure, there's still problems to be addressed, I wouldn't say that getting every TC out of Cyprus is the answer. What about those of us who were born here? Who are just as Cypriot as YOU??? Tell me where is the justice in that? Because of the wrong Turks have done to Greeks before, does that make us unable to live side by side in the same country? Just because of where a person's parents are from, they must be removed from their country of birth? Their home?