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The constant hate between TC & GC

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:57 pm

zan wrote:
Piratis wrote:
zan wrote:
Piratis wrote:
insan wrote:
Piratis wrote:Well, insan, those days were much better than earlier:

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.


During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


So probably it was a mistake for you to come to our island I guess. Feel free to go back to where you came from if you don't want to live along with the native people of this island. But don't hope we will gift to you any part of our island, because that is not going to happen.


Better, far better, worde or worst r not my point. I pointed the facts that it seemed to me u either intentionally or by ignorance, denied.

You can go back to ur motherland if u don't want to live in a federal Cyprus governed by consociational democrasy of 2 communities.


So you are happy that Cyprus has not seen peace since it was invaded by the Turks?

And then "Turk_Green_Eyes" wonders why the native people of Cyprus hate the invading Turks. :roll: You are a live example of the why.


What are you Piratis an idiot.....Have a look at the history of Cyprus again and tell me when it ever was in "Peace" as you call it....What a burk!!


Cyprus was in peace for long parts of its history. During most parts of the Byzantine era for example. If you don't know the history of our island it is not my fault.


Do you mean the 400 years that the Ottomans ruled....Where your church flourished and you were allowed to live as Greeks..... :roll: :roll:


Should we now say "Thank you" for allowing us to live? Considering the alternatives (genocides against Armenians and many others) maybe you think you made us a favor?

Not really. The only reason you allowed us to live is to pay taxes. In fact you forced the native Cypriot people to pay twice the taxes as everybody else. And the church was your tax collector. Whenever they didn't obey something you would execute them.
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Postby Kikapu » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:00 pm

insan wrote:
Piratis wrote:
So you are happy that Cyprus has not seen peace since it was invaded by the Turks?

And then "Turk_Green_Eyes" wonders why the native people of Cyprus hate the invading Turks. :roll: You are a live example of the why.


I'm not happy with what happened to Cyprus. And it's not my point being happy or not with what happened to Cyprus throughout the history of Cyprus. My point is, after Ottomans ceded Cyprus to Brit GC leadership didn't accept a consociational self-governance till 1960 and afterwards 1960 GC leadership pretended as if accepted and digested a unitary state governed by consociational democracy, then after a few years showed us their real face that they still insist on making TC community a mere minority.


Here are couple of quotes about "consociationalism".!

The goals of consociationalism are governmental stability, the survival of the power-sharing arrangements, the survival of democracy and the avoidance of violence.


So lets recap for a moment on what "consociationalism" was meant to do for Cyprus using the above explanation on "consociationalism".!

1. Did it bring stabilitiy to the Government in Cyprus.?
2. Did the power sharing agreement survived.?
3. Did the original intended "Democracy" survived.?
4. Was violance avoided.?

The answer is a NO on all fronts, so once again, "consociationalism" failed Cyprus.


1. sharing executive power among representatives of all significant groups
2. segmental autonomy: each group has a great deal of internal leeway
3.proportional representation and allocation of positions
4.minority veto on vital issues (mutual veto)

There are both positives and negatives to group rights. On the positive side, it can ensure that all groups are represented and have access to political and economic power. On the negative side, it discriminates against individuals and makes the conferring of benefits be based not only individual merit or achievement but on group identity. This can be especially problematic if talent is not distributed evenly among all groups in a particular field, but access to jobs or opportunities is restricted by quota.



1. So excecutive power is only shared by "significant groups", which means the other groups are considered to be insignificant and therefore can be ignored and have their Democratic and Human Rights violated.!

2. There never was a segmented "significant groups", because all the groups mostly lived in mixed villages, therefore, there could not be "segmented autonomy" given to any group in 1960.

3. There never was a proportianal representation and allocation of positions, because more were given to the TC's at 30%, when they only represented 18% of the population, therefore once again, "consociationalism" failed in it's purpose.

4. Minority had a veto power on all issues.

It is time to bring True Democracy to Cyprus once and for all as it is practiced all over Europe and the west in general and stop playing games with failed experiments such as "consociationalism".!
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Postby insan » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:02 pm

Piratis wrote:The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? :? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.


TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.
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Postby insan » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:06 pm

Kikapu, consociationalism failed in Cyprus because the ultra nationalist of Hellenes in collaboration with GC extremists, exerted extremely to make it fail.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:09 pm

insan wrote:
Piratis wrote:The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? :? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.


TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.


The TCs are and have always been a minority, and if it wasn't for the Ottoman Colonialism their percentage in Cyprus would be 0%.
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:09 pm

zan wrote:What are you Piratis an idiot.....Have a look at the history of Cyprus again and tell me when it ever was in "Peace" as you call it....What a burk!!

Cyprus was peaceful in 1569 thank you very much.
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Postby Kikapu » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:10 pm

insan wrote:
Piratis wrote:The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? :? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.


TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.


So that would be the fault of the British, wouldn't it, if your figures are correct. The British ruled until 1960, so when was it that the "TC's" numbers were at 35%, in 1571 or what.?
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Postby Piratis » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:11 pm

insan wrote:Kikapu, consociationalism failed in Cyprus because the ultra nationalist of Hellenes in collaboration with GC extremists, exerted extremely to make it fail.


It failed because it was a foreign imposed creation which aimed to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination.

If you think it is so nice, why don't you apply it in Turkey, with the Greek, Kurdish and other minorities?
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:13 pm

insan wrote:...then after a few years showed us their real face that they still insist on making TC community a mere minority.

No, you're not just a minority... you're a bloody nuisance.
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:17 pm

insan wrote:Kikapu, consociationalism failed in Cyprus because the ultra nationalist of Hellenes in collaboration with GC extremists, exerted extremely to make it fail.

For the sake of the argument, if I accept your explanation as to why it failed, then why do you want it again? The "ultra nationalist of Hellenes in collaboration with GC extremists" can always strike again...
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