Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

For example, if you are rich it is much less likely to be a communist.

Unless your name is Stalin...

[Viewpoint]

Insan, human beings are greedy by nature.

For example, if you are rich it is much less likely to be a communist. If you have more money than most others, you most probably would resist the idea of equal wealth distribution.

So I can walk in the shoes of TCs , and if I could get 5 times more the votes than most other people, then probably I would not be able to resist my greedy human nature and I would indeed insist on having those 5 votes instead of having 1 like most other people. Then like a rich capitalist, I could find a million of excuses why what I support is just and right. So yes, if I was in your shoes maybe I would act like you. I hope you are satisfied with my answer

You are not acting in the way you do because you are a bad person, or a Turk or anything else. You are acting in a perfectly natural way. There are very few people that can control the tendency of human beings to be greedy, and are able to put justice above their personal interests, and I am not going to claim that I am such a rare kind of person.

It is this human nature which is fully exploited by certain outsiders to employ their divide and rule in Cyprus. What happened in Cyprus was and continues to be a text book case of divide and rule: Take a minority of the population, offer to them more (power/land/privileges etc) than everybody else, the minority will believe that those additional things offered to them are their rights (due to greediness), the majority will of course not accept to be screwed in that way, and the result is conflict between the two sides and the divide and rule is achieved.

The only solution is if foreign involvement stops. Then having more than others is not an option, and you eventually get used to be equal citizen with everybody else.

Would that allow you to gift Cyprus to Greece?

[insan]

Insan, human beings are greedy by nature.

For example, if you are rich it is much less likely to be a communist. If you have more money than most others, you most probably would resist the idea of equal wealth distribution.

Piratis, i don't agree with u that the conflict between 2 communities arised from personal greediness.

So I can walk in the shoes of TCs , and if I could get 5 times more the votes than most other people, then probably I would not be able to resist my greedy human nature and I would indeed insist on having those 5 votes instead of having 1 like most other people. Then like a rich capitalist, I could find a million of excuses why what I support is just and right. So yes, if I was in your shoes maybe I would act like you. I hope you are satisfied with my answer

This is not a matter of being satidfied with ur answer or not. There's no any other place on earth that has 2 main communities having the same historical background as the 2 main communities of Cyprus have. Our historical background directly changes the situation in Cyprus and makes it unique to it's circumstances, so that we all(Christofias and his followers, some mass political groups in Greece included), besides international community put efforts to find a unique to Cyprus solution in light of the facts of our historical background and the realities of the world.

You are not acting in the way you do because you are a bad person, or a Turk or anything else.

I could'nt get what u mean please provide more details.

You are acting in a perfectly natural way. There are very few people that can control the tendency of human beings to be greedy, and are able to put justice above their personal interests, and I am not going to claim that I am such a rare kind of person.

Good

It is this human nature which is fully exploited by certain outsiders to employ their divide and rule in Cyprus. What happened in Cyprus was and continues to be a text book case of divide and rule: Take a minority of the population, offer to them more (power/land/privileges etc) than everybody else, the minority will believe that those additional things offered to them are their rights (due to greediness), the majority will of course not accept to be screwed in that way, and the result is conflict between the two sides and the divide and rule is achieved.

Ahh... don't forget that numerical minority of Cyprus was a part of the owner of Cyprus and they became upset to Ottoman Sultan because he ceded Cyprus to Britain in return protection against Russia. So that, Brits had to look after well to TC numerical minority not because of "divide and rule" policy.

The only solution is if foreign involvement stops. Then having more than others is not an option, and you eventually get used to be equal citizen with everybody else.

"Foreign" involvement has always happened to Cyprus because their interests, even the US founded EU is a foreign involvement in Cyprus. By letting whom Hellenes like and trying to push others out of Cyprus to stop foreign involvement makes no sense for others but helps maintaining hatred, status quo and realization of partition, sooner or later.

[Piratis]

Would that allow you to gift Cyprus to Greece?

Are you saying that Athens, Salonika, Crete. Rhodes etc were "gifted" to Greece? These territories, including Cyprus, are all territories inhabited mostly by Greeks, and it was only natural to be all together in one state.

With what you say you imply that it is the TCs who didn't allow Cyprus to unite with Greece? The TCs were just the excuse used by UK and Turkey to deny this to Cyprus.

[Piratis]

Insan, human beings are greedy by nature.

For example, if you are rich it is much less likely to be a communist. If you have more money than most others, you most probably would resist the idea of equal wealth distribution.

Piratis, i don't agree with u that the conflict between 2 communities arised from personal greediness.

What do you call it then? Communal greediness?

So I can walk in the shoes of TCs , and if I could get 5 times more the votes than most other people, then probably I would not be able to resist my greedy human nature and I would indeed insist on having those 5 votes instead of having 1 like most other people. Then like a rich capitalist, I could find a million of excuses why what I support is just and right. So yes, if I was in your shoes maybe I would act like you. I hope you are satisfied with my answer

This is not a matter of being satidfied with ur answer or not. There's no any other place on earth that has 2 main communities having the same historical background as the 2 main communities of Cyprus have. Our historical background directly changes the situation in Cyprus and makes it unique to it's circumstances, so that we all(Christofias and his followers, some mass political groups in Greece included), besides international community put efforts to find a unique to Cyprus solution in light of the facts of our historical background and the realities of the world.

There is nothing very unique in Cyprus. What we have is a majority of people of one ethnicity, plus a minority of another ethnicity that was created during colonial rule. There are many other countries like Cyprus.
Closest example is Bulgaria. There is a Turkish minority there created during Ottoman rule. Actually the Turks are in Bulgaria since 1385, about 200 years before they came to Cyprus.

You are not acting in the way you do because you are a bad person, or a Turk or anything else.

I could'nt get what u mean please provide more details.

I don't understand what is not clear.

You are acting in a perfectly natural way. There are very few people that can control the tendency of human beings to be greedy, and are able to put justice above their personal interests, and I am not going to claim that I am such a rare kind of person.

Good

It is this human nature which is fully exploited by certain outsiders to employ their divide and rule in Cyprus. What happened in Cyprus was and continues to be a text book case of divide and rule: Take a minority of the population, offer to them more (power/land/privileges etc) than everybody else, the minority will believe that those additional things offered to them are their rights (due to greediness), the majority will of course not accept to be screwed in that way, and the result is conflict between the two sides and the divide and rule is achieved.

Ahh... don't forget that numerical minority of Cyprus was a part of the owner of Cyprus and they became upset to Ottoman Sultan because he ceded Cyprus to Britain in return protection against Russia. So that, Brits had to look after well to TC numerical minority not because of "divide and rule" policy.

The Turks were the "owners" of the whole Ottoman empire. So what? And if you are going to make that argument we were the owners of the whole Asia Minor. So? I don't see you giving any "political equality" to the Greek numerical minority of Turkey.

The British really didn't have to offer any privileges to the TCs. They did so only in order to employ their divide and rule.

The only solution is if foreign involvement stops. Then having more than others is not an option, and you eventually get used to be equal citizen with everybody else.

"Foreign" involvement has always happened to Cyprus because their interests, even the US founded EU is a foreign involvement in Cyprus. By letting whom Hellenes like and trying to push others out of Cyprus to stop foreign involvement makes no sense for others but helps maintaining hatred, status quo and realization of partition, sooner or later.

We didn't try to push anybody out of Cyprus. Just exercise our self-determination. Just like we lived as subjects of the Ottoman or British empires against the will of the Cypriot people, we (you included) would continue living in Cyprus as equal citizens of a state which we democratically choose to belong.

The same with EU. Maybe EU has involvement in Cyprus, but it is an involvement we choose for them to have, it was not forced on us like the Ottoman or the British empires did.

Rhodes which also has a Turkish minority united with Greece in 1947. Not a single nose broke over this. Why? Because nobody offered to the Turkish Rhodians any incentives of disproportionally large privileges in order to turn them against the majority.

[insan]

Insan, human beings are greedy by nature.

For example, if you are rich it is much less likely to be a communist. If you have more money than most others, you most probably would resist the idea of equal wealth distribution.

Piratis, i don't agree with u that the conflict between 2 communities arised from personal greediness.

What do you call it then? Communal greediness?

So I can walk in the shoes of TCs , and if I could get 5 times more the votes than most other people, then probably I would not be able to resist my greedy human nature and I would indeed insist on having those 5 votes instead of having 1 like most other people. Then like a rich capitalist, I could find a million of excuses why what I support is just and right. So yes, if I was in your shoes maybe I would act like you. I hope you are satisfied with my answer

This is not a matter of being satidfied with ur answer or not. There's no any other place on earth that has 2 main communities having the same historical background as the 2 main communities of Cyprus have. Our historical background directly changes the situation in Cyprus and makes it unique to it's circumstances, so that we all(Christofias and his followers, some mass political groups in Greece included), besides international community put efforts to find a unique to Cyprus solution in light of the facts of our historical background and the realities of the world.

There is nothing very unique in Cyprus. What we have is a majority of people of one ethnicity, plus a minority of another ethnicity that was created during colonial rule. There are many other countries like Cyprus.
Closest example is Bulgaria. There is a Turkish minority there created during Ottoman rule. Actually the Turks are in Bulgaria since 1385, about 200 years before they came to Cyprus.

You are not acting in the way you do because you are a bad person, or a Turk or anything else.

I could'nt get what u mean please provide more details.

I don't understand what is not clear.

You are acting in a perfectly natural way. There are very few people that can control the tendency of human beings to be greedy, and are able to put justice above their personal interests, and I am not going to claim that I am such a rare kind of person.

Good

It is this human nature which is fully exploited by certain outsiders to employ their divide and rule in Cyprus. What happened in Cyprus was and continues to be a text book case of divide and rule: Take a minority of the population, offer to them more (power/land/privileges etc) than everybody else, the minority will believe that those additional things offered to them are their rights (due to greediness), the majority will of course not accept to be screwed in that way, and the result is conflict between the two sides and the divide and rule is achieved.

Ahh... don't forget that numerical minority of Cyprus was a part of the owner of Cyprus and they became upset to Ottoman Sultan because he ceded Cyprus to Britain in return protection against Russia. So that, Brits had to look after well to TC numerical minority not because of "divide and rule" policy.

The Turks were the "owners" of the whole Ottoman empire. So what? And if you are going to make that argument we were the owners of the whole Asia Minor. So? I don't see you giving any "political equality" to the Greek numerical minority of Turkey.

The British really didn't have to offer any privileges to the TCs. They did so only in order to employ their divide and rule.

The only solution is if foreign involvement stops. Then having more than others is not an option, and you eventually get used to be equal citizen with everybody else.

"Foreign" involvement has always happened to Cyprus because their interests, even the US founded EU is a foreign involvement in Cyprus. By letting whom Hellenes like and trying to push others out of Cyprus to stop foreign involvement makes no sense for others but helps maintaining hatred, status quo and realization of partition, sooner or later.

We didn't try to push anybody out of Cyprus. Just exercise our self-determination. Just like we lived as subjects of the Ottoman or British empires against the will of the Cypriot people, we (you included) would continue living in Cyprus as equal citizens of a state which we democratically choose to belong.

The same with EU. Maybe EU has involvement in Cyprus, but it is an involvement we choose for them to have, it was not forced on us like the Ottoman or the British empires did.

Rhodes which also has a Turkish minority united with Greece in 1947. Not a single nose broke over this. Why? Because nobody offered to the Turkish Rhodians any incentives of disproportionally large privileges in order to turn them against the majority.

Ok. Piratis. U insist on not to see the facts and realities. Let's leave the issue to the ones that practically involving with Cyprus problem and watch the progress. I see no point running around the same circle.

[Piratis]

There is really no reason to discuss anything insan. It is clear that you insist on the disproportionally large powers and land that is promised to you by foreigners and I perfectly understand that you will not stop thinking in this way.

So yes, talking and negotiating with you in general is a total waste of time.

But as an exercise for you (since you made an exercise for us) I want you to answer this question:

If you reject the greediness as being the main reason that determines your demands, then explain to me why the 18% of TCs demand a state for themselves made out of the 29%+ of Cyprus.

A honest answer from you in my opinion would be: "Because we believe that we can blackmail you and force you to accept it. We won 37% with a war, so you should be happy for giving you a bit back. Why settle for less if we can get more?".

If your answer is different from the above, then give it to me. Your task in this exercise is to give an answer that will be logical and that will not be a joke.

[repulsewarrior]

u guys should be preparing for the 21st century, and the one to come after that. living in a dream world where everything stays the same demographically is folly. read my manifesto, and remember: the population of Cyprus is about twelve million where living bicommunally means one State and many communities...

[insan]

There is really no reason to discuss anything insan. It is clear that you insist on the disproportionally large powers and land that is promised to you by foreigners and I perfectly understand that you will not stop thinking in this way.

So yes, talking and negotiating with you in general is a total waste of time.

But as an exercise for you (since you made an exercise for us) I want you to answer this question:

If you reject the greediness as being the main reason that determines your demands, then explain to me why the 18% of TCs demand a state for themselves made out of the 29%+ of Cyprus.

A honest answer from you in my opinion would be: "Because we believe that we can blackmail you and force you to accept it. We won 37% with a war, so you should be happy for giving you a bit back. Why settle for less if we can get more?".

If your answer is different from the above, then give it to me. Your task in this exercise is to give an answer that will be logical and that will not be a joke.

There r 2 different arguments regarding the amount of land ownership of 2 communities based on documents. If u check "knowledge is power..." thread u can examine borth arguments respectively in one post. I'm sure %29 land claim of TC side is based on those documents that they have. When Ottomans ceded Cyprus to Brits TCs were abt %35 of the total population. In no way i could think to blackmailing GC community to make u accept what TC leadership claims. It's not an issue of we won it by warring or something...

[insan]

u guys should be preparing for the 21st century, and the one to come after that. living in a dream world where everything stays the same demographically is folly. read my manifesto, and remember: the population of Cyprus is about twelve million where living bicommunally means one State and many communities...

so, let us start somewhere consociational and evolve it to the next.