Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Annan plan stated 1974 prices + inflation.

This bears no reality to the current property value.

Apply inflation of 2 or 3% yearly for 35 years and you won't get anywhere near the actual appreciation of property values in that time.

So, according to the plan, a house that would have cost £1000 in 1974 would be worth around £2400 in 2004 if the above formula is applied.

In real money, that £1000 house would actually now be worth £200000!

So basically, the Annan plan would be ripping off every single person who lost property during the invasion. A very fair and equitable solution - no wonder the TC's voted in favour of the plan!

If I am not mistaken, it wasn't 74 values plus inflation, but 74 values plus the average appreciation of property prices, since 1974, in similar areas which were not affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. This left the room open for any sort of interpretation or estimation, due to the fact that one could claim that any property in Cyprus was either positively or negatively affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. For example, a similar property of mine in Lapithos could be any other similar sea-side resort property in the southern part, i.e. Pafos, Pegeia, Polis Chrisochous, Latchi, etc. The value of seaside properties in these areas in 1974 was less than 1,000 CyP per donum, and now they are valued at least at 200,000 CyP per donum. This means that they appreciated by 200 times, and my properly in Lapithos which in 1974 was estimated at around 7,000 CyP per donum (it was indeed the most expensive land in Cyprus at the time,) should by this measure equate with 1,4 million CyP per donum. However, one would argue that such properties in the south have been positively affected by the 1974 events.

Since all sea side areas of southern Cyprus could be claimed that they have been positively affected, then other areas of not similar type could be used as a measure. The only areas that one cannot claim they were affected by the 1974 events, were the inland agricultural areas of Cyprus, which appreciated by only 10-12 times, since 1974. In this case, my property would be estimated at around 70-80,000 pounds per donum. However, if such a rule would have been adopted (the most likely scenario,) I would have been compelled to give out my property for much less than the actual market (trading) value that would have emerged immediately upon a solution, which would have been similar to that of similar areas in the south -i.e. approximately around say 200,000 CyP, due to the fact that properties in the north would have entered the same open market that currently exists in the south. In such a case, the TC person(s) that would have gained possession of my property in the north, would have gained an advantage of legally receiving property which they would have been able to immediately trade in the open market, at a price 2-3 times higher than the one I would have been compensated in 20-25 years down the road. At the same time, and due to the fact that the TC properties that would have been relinquished in the south, would have been considerably less than the ones the GCs would have been required to relinquish in the north; chances are there would not have been enough TC properties in the south which I could possibly acquire, under similar terms and with the use of the bonds and stocks I would have received in exchange of my relinquished property in the north.

The end result of the A-plan’s property “arrangements,” would have been that the majority of GCs would have been left with papers in their hands, worth much less than the actual trading (market) value of their relinquished properties, upon and immediately after a solution, and even so; they would be waiting for (20+) years in order to be able to cash their bonds, and only if there would have been money available through the property board, and assuming that it wouldn't have collapsed in the meantime. The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees; more accurately to favor all those from the TC community that had managed all these years to gain unlawful and illegitimate access and possession of GC properties in the north, regardless of them having had relinquished property in the south or not, plus all those foreigners and mainland Turkish buddies of Denktash (see how many from those involved in the Ergenegon are now reviled to have been given large sums of GC properties in the north,) in exchange for their services in promoting the Turkish national cause in Cyprus. Indeed, all these scumbags would have become rich overnight, in a legalized way.

Who put the clause in the Plan?
Until this is revealed, the discussion on the merrits of it is pointless?

[Kifeas]

Alvaro De Sotto and Kofi Anan did, YFred! What is the name written on the plan? Doesn't it say ANAN plan?

[YFred]

Alvaro De Sotto and Kofi Anan did, YFred! What is the name written on the plan? Doesn't it say ANAN plan?

Anan plan includes the minimum requirements of both sides and the rest were filled in by UN.

You are avoiding the question.
Do you know who insisted on the 74 Prices clause being included in the plan?
Can you say that the GC's did not ask for this clause?

[Kikapu]

Annan plan stated 1974 prices + inflation.

This bears no reality to the current property value.

Apply inflation of 2 or 3% yearly for 35 years and you won't get anywhere near the actual appreciation of property values in that time.

So, according to the plan, a house that would have cost £1000 in 1974 would be worth around £2400 in 2004 if the above formula is applied.

In real money, that £1000 house would actually now be worth £200000!

So basically, the Annan plan would be ripping off every single person who lost property during the invasion. A very fair and equitable solution - no wonder the TC's voted in favour of the plan!

If I am not mistaken, it wasn't 74 values plus inflation, but 74 values plus the average appreciation of property prices, since 1974, in similar areas which were not affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. This left the room open for any sort of interpretation or estimation, due to the fact that one could claim that any property in Cyprus was either positively or negatively affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. For example, a similar property of mine in Lapithos could be any other similar sea-side resort property in the southern part, i.e. Pafos, Pegeia, Polis Chrisochous, Latchi, etc. The value of seaside properties in these areas in 1974 was less than 1,000 CyP per donum, and now they are valued at least at 200,000 CyP per donum. This means that they appreciated by 200 times, and my properly in Lapithos which in 1974 was estimated at around 7,000 CyP per donum (it was indeed the most expensive land in Cyprus at the time,) should by this measure equate with 1,4 million CyP per donum. However, one would argue that such properties in the south have been positively affected by the 1974 events.

Since all sea side areas of southern Cyprus could be claimed that they have been positively affected, then other areas of not similar type could be used as a measure. The only areas that one cannot claim they were affected by the 1974 events, were the inland agricultural areas of Cyprus, which appreciated by only 10-12 times, since 1974. In this case, my property would be estimated at around 70-80,000 pounds per donum. However, if such a rule would have been adopted (the most likely scenario,) I would have been compelled to give out my property for much less than the actual market (trading) value that would have emerged immediately upon a solution, which would have been similar to that of similar areas in the south -i.e. approximately around say 200,000 CyP, due to the fact that properties in the north would have entered the same open market that currently exists in the south. In such a case, the TC person(s) that would have gained possession of my property in the north, would have gained an advantage of legally receiving property which they would have been able to immediately trade in the open market, at a price 2-3 times higher than the one I would have been compensated in 20-25 years down the road. At the same time, and due to the fact that the TC properties that would have been relinquished in the south, would have been considerably less than the ones the GCs would have been required to relinquish in the north; chances are there would not have been enough TC properties in the south which I could possibly acquire, under similar terms and with the use of the bonds and stocks I would have received in exchange of my relinquished property in the north.

The end result of the A-plan’s property “arrangements,” would have been that the majority of GCs would have been left with papers in their hands, worth much less than the actual trading (market) value of their relinquished properties, upon and immediately after a solution, and even so; they would be waiting for (20+) years in order to be able to cash their bonds, and only if there would have been money available through the property board, and assuming that it wouldn't have collapsed in the meantime. The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees; more accurately to favor all those from the TC community that had managed all these years to gain unlawful and illegitimate access and possession of GC properties in the north, regardless of them having had relinquished property in the south or not, plus all those foreigners and mainland Turkish buddies of Denktash (see how many from those involved in the Ergenegon are now reviled to have been given large sums of GC properties in the north,) in exchange for their services in promoting the Turkish national cause in Cyprus. Indeed, all these scumbags would have become rich overnight, in a legalized way.

You just about covered all the points, Kifeas.! Just one more reason why the AP got the resounding NO vote that it deserved. I still can't understand how and why 24 % of the GC's said YES to the AP, and how on earth did 35% of the TC's said NO to it. Totally mind blowing on both accounts.!

The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees

I think you meant to say "SCAM", but then again, maybe not, since SCUM sounds more appropriate.!

[YFred]

Annan plan stated 1974 prices + inflation.

This bears no reality to the current property value.

Apply inflation of 2 or 3% yearly for 35 years and you won't get anywhere near the actual appreciation of property values in that time.

So, according to the plan, a house that would have cost £1000 in 1974 would be worth around £2400 in 2004 if the above formula is applied.

In real money, that £1000 house would actually now be worth £200000!

So basically, the Annan plan would be ripping off every single person who lost property during the invasion. A very fair and equitable solution - no wonder the TC's voted in favour of the plan!

If I am not mistaken, it wasn't 74 values plus inflation, but 74 values plus the average appreciation of property prices, since 1974, in similar areas which were not affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. This left the room open for any sort of interpretation or estimation, due to the fact that one could claim that any property in Cyprus was either positively or negatively affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. For example, a similar property of mine in Lapithos could be any other similar sea-side resort property in the southern part, i.e. Pafos, Pegeia, Polis Chrisochous, Latchi, etc. The value of seaside properties in these areas in 1974 was less than 1,000 CyP per donum, and now they are valued at least at 200,000 CyP per donum. This means that they appreciated by 200 times, and my properly in Lapithos which in 1974 was estimated at around 7,000 CyP per donum (it was indeed the most expensive land in Cyprus at the time,) should by this measure equate with 1,4 million CyP per donum. However, one would argue that such properties in the south have been positively affected by the 1974 events.

Since all sea side areas of southern Cyprus could be claimed that they have been positively affected, then other areas of not similar type could be used as a measure. The only areas that one cannot claim they were affected by the 1974 events, were the inland agricultural areas of Cyprus, which appreciated by only 10-12 times, since 1974. In this case, my property would be estimated at around 70-80,000 pounds per donum. However, if such a rule would have been adopted (the most likely scenario,) I would have been compelled to give out my property for much less than the actual market (trading) value that would have emerged immediately upon a solution, which would have been similar to that of similar areas in the south -i.e. approximately around say 200,000 CyP, due to the fact that properties in the north would have entered the same open market that currently exists in the south. In such a case, the TC person(s) that would have gained possession of my property in the north, would have gained an advantage of legally receiving property which they would have been able to immediately trade in the open market, at a price 2-3 times higher than the one I would have been compensated in 20-25 years down the road. At the same time, and due to the fact that the TC properties that would have been relinquished in the south, would have been considerably less than the ones the GCs would have been required to relinquish in the north; chances are there would not have been enough TC properties in the south which I could possibly acquire, under similar terms and with the use of the bonds and stocks I would have received in exchange of my relinquished property in the north.

The end result of the A-plan’s property “arrangements,” would have been that the majority of GCs would have been left with papers in their hands, worth much less than the actual trading (market) value of their relinquished properties, upon and immediately after a solution, and even so; they would be waiting for (20+) years in order to be able to cash their bonds, and only if there would have been money available through the property board, and assuming that it wouldn't have collapsed in the meantime. The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees; more accurately to favor all those from the TC community that had managed all these years to gain unlawful and illegitimate access and possession of GC properties in the north, regardless of them having had relinquished property in the south or not, plus all those foreigners and mainland Turkish buddies of Denktash (see how many from those involved in the Ergenegon are now reviled to have been given large sums of GC properties in the north,) in exchange for their services in promoting the Turkish national cause in Cyprus. Indeed, all these scumbags would have become rich overnight, in a legalized way.

You just about covered all the points, Kifeas.! Just one more reason why the AP got the resounding NO vote that it deserved. I still can't understand how and why 24 % of the GC's said YES to the AP, and how on earth did 35% of the TC's said NO to it. Totally mind blowing on both accounts.!

The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees

I think you meant to say "SCAM", but then again, maybe not, since SCUM sounds more appropriate.!

Sorry Kiks,

But he has not covered all the points.
One very simple point needs to be answered.
Who insisted on the values to be used should be 74 Prices. It had to be one side or another. I do not believe that the UN would make such a decision.
Now, Do you know who insisted on using the 74 property prices as the basis for a solution.
If you do, please tell us.

[Kikapu]

Annan plan stated 1974 prices + inflation.

This bears no reality to the current property value.

Apply inflation of 2 or 3% yearly for 35 years and you won't get anywhere near the actual appreciation of property values in that time.

So, according to the plan, a house that would have cost £1000 in 1974 would be worth around £2400 in 2004 if the above formula is applied.

In real money, that £1000 house would actually now be worth £200000!

So basically, the Annan plan would be ripping off every single person who lost property during the invasion. A very fair and equitable solution - no wonder the TC's voted in favour of the plan!

If I am not mistaken, it wasn't 74 values plus inflation, but 74 values plus the average appreciation of property prices, since 1974, in similar areas which were not affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. This left the room open for any sort of interpretation or estimation, due to the fact that one could claim that any property in Cyprus was either positively or negatively affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. For example, a similar property of mine in Lapithos could be any other similar sea-side resort property in the southern part, i.e. Pafos, Pegeia, Polis Chrisochous, Latchi, etc. The value of seaside properties in these areas in 1974 was less than 1,000 CyP per donum, and now they are valued at least at 200,000 CyP per donum. This means that they appreciated by 200 times, and my properly in Lapithos which in 1974 was estimated at around 7,000 CyP per donum (it was indeed the most expensive land in Cyprus at the time,) should by this measure equate with 1,4 million CyP per donum. However, one would argue that such properties in the south have been positively affected by the 1974 events.

Since all sea side areas of southern Cyprus could be claimed that they have been positively affected, then other areas of not similar type could be used as a measure. The only areas that one cannot claim they were affected by the 1974 events, were the inland agricultural areas of Cyprus, which appreciated by only 10-12 times, since 1974. In this case, my property would be estimated at around 70-80,000 pounds per donum. However, if such a rule would have been adopted (the most likely scenario,) I would have been compelled to give out my property for much less than the actual market (trading) value that would have emerged immediately upon a solution, which would have been similar to that of similar areas in the south -i.e. approximately around say 200,000 CyP, due to the fact that properties in the north would have entered the same open market that currently exists in the south. In such a case, the TC person(s) that would have gained possession of my property in the north, would have gained an advantage of legally receiving property which they would have been able to immediately trade in the open market, at a price 2-3 times higher than the one I would have been compensated in 20-25 years down the road. At the same time, and due to the fact that the TC properties that would have been relinquished in the south, would have been considerably less than the ones the GCs would have been required to relinquish in the north; chances are there would not have been enough TC properties in the south which I could possibly acquire, under similar terms and with the use of the bonds and stocks I would have received in exchange of my relinquished property in the north.

The end result of the A-plan’s property “arrangements,” would have been that the majority of GCs would have been left with papers in their hands, worth much less than the actual trading (market) value of their relinquished properties, upon and immediately after a solution, and even so; they would be waiting for (20+) years in order to be able to cash their bonds, and only if there would have been money available through the property board, and assuming that it wouldn't have collapsed in the meantime. The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees; more accurately to favor all those from the TC community that had managed all these years to gain unlawful and illegitimate access and possession of GC properties in the north, regardless of them having had relinquished property in the south or not, plus all those foreigners and mainland Turkish buddies of Denktash (see how many from those involved in the Ergenegon are now reviled to have been given large sums of GC properties in the north,) in exchange for their services in promoting the Turkish national cause in Cyprus. Indeed, all these scumbags would have become rich overnight, in a legalized way.

You just about covered all the points, Kifeas.! Just one more reason why the AP got the resounding NO vote that it deserved. I still can't understand how and why 24 % of the GC's said YES to the AP, and how on earth did 35% of the TC's said NO to it. Totally mind blowing on both accounts.!

The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees

I think you meant to say "SCAM", but then again, maybe not, since SCUM sounds more appropriate.!

Sorry Kiks,

But he has not covered all the points.
One very simple point needs to be answered.
Who insisted on the values to be used should be 74 Prices. It had to be one side or another. I do not believe that the UN would make such a decision.
Now, Do you know who insisted on using the 74 property prices as the basis for a solution.
If you do, please tell us.

Alvaro De Sotto and Kofi Anan did, YFred! What is the name written on the plan? Doesn't it say ANAN plan?

That's what Kifeas told you few posts back.!

If you remember, during the last couple of months before the referendum too place that anything that the 2 sides could not agree on, the above two characters had a free hand to write in what ever they wanted on behalf of the GC's and the TC's. By this time, PapaD could not care what was in the AP, because he would go against it, and he did, so it is possible it was put in towards the end. As a matter of fact, Turkey asked recently that the same should be done again this time also, on issues that the 2 sides can't agree on, to let the UN fill in the gabs. Fat chance that will be allowed to happen again as far as the GC's are concerned. As Kifeas said, it was designed to favour the TC's by 4:1 ratio, since that's what the difference was between the GC's and the TC's. The whole AP was a sham, so don't get all worked up about just this 1974 prices issues. There were far worse issues than this one.!

[YFred]

Annan plan stated 1974 prices + inflation.

This bears no reality to the current property value.

Apply inflation of 2 or 3% yearly for 35 years and you won't get anywhere near the actual appreciation of property values in that time.

So, according to the plan, a house that would have cost £1000 in 1974 would be worth around £2400 in 2004 if the above formula is applied.

In real money, that £1000 house would actually now be worth £200000!

So basically, the Annan plan would be ripping off every single person who lost property during the invasion. A very fair and equitable solution - no wonder the TC's voted in favour of the plan!

If I am not mistaken, it wasn't 74 values plus inflation, but 74 values plus the average appreciation of property prices, since 1974, in similar areas which were not affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. This left the room open for any sort of interpretation or estimation, due to the fact that one could claim that any property in Cyprus was either positively or negatively affected by the 1963 or 1974 events. For example, a similar property of mine in Lapithos could be any other similar sea-side resort property in the southern part, i.e. Pafos, Pegeia, Polis Chrisochous, Latchi, etc. The value of seaside properties in these areas in 1974 was less than 1,000 CyP per donum, and now they are valued at least at 200,000 CyP per donum. This means that they appreciated by 200 times, and my properly in Lapithos which in 1974 was estimated at around 7,000 CyP per donum (it was indeed the most expensive land in Cyprus at the time,) should by this measure equate with 1,4 million CyP per donum. However, one would argue that such properties in the south have been positively affected by the 1974 events.

Since all sea side areas of southern Cyprus could be claimed that they have been positively affected, then other areas of not similar type could be used as a measure. The only areas that one cannot claim they were affected by the 1974 events, were the inland agricultural areas of Cyprus, which appreciated by only 10-12 times, since 1974. In this case, my property would be estimated at around 70-80,000 pounds per donum. However, if such a rule would have been adopted (the most likely scenario,) I would have been compelled to give out my property for much less than the actual market (trading) value that would have emerged immediately upon a solution, which would have been similar to that of similar areas in the south -i.e. approximately around say 200,000 CyP, due to the fact that properties in the north would have entered the same open market that currently exists in the south. In such a case, the TC person(s) that would have gained possession of my property in the north, would have gained an advantage of legally receiving property which they would have been able to immediately trade in the open market, at a price 2-3 times higher than the one I would have been compensated in 20-25 years down the road. At the same time, and due to the fact that the TC properties that would have been relinquished in the south, would have been considerably less than the ones the GCs would have been required to relinquish in the north; chances are there would not have been enough TC properties in the south which I could possibly acquire, under similar terms and with the use of the bonds and stocks I would have received in exchange of my relinquished property in the north.

The end result of the A-plan’s property “arrangements,” would have been that the majority of GCs would have been left with papers in their hands, worth much less than the actual trading (market) value of their relinquished properties, upon and immediately after a solution, and even so; they would be waiting for (20+) years in order to be able to cash their bonds, and only if there would have been money available through the property board, and assuming that it wouldn't have collapsed in the meantime. The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees; more accurately to favor all those from the TC community that had managed all these years to gain unlawful and illegitimate access and possession of GC properties in the north, regardless of them having had relinquished property in the south or not, plus all those foreigners and mainland Turkish buddies of Denktash (see how many from those involved in the Ergenegon are now reviled to have been given large sums of GC properties in the north,) in exchange for their services in promoting the Turkish national cause in Cyprus. Indeed, all these scumbags would have become rich overnight, in a legalized way.

You just about covered all the points, Kifeas.! Just one more reason why the AP got the resounding NO vote that it deserved. I still can't understand how and why 24 % of the GC's said YES to the AP, and how on earth did 35% of the TC's said NO to it. Totally mind blowing on both accounts.!

The plan was a scum aiming to favor the TC community, in the expense of the GC refugees

I think you meant to say "SCAM", but then again, maybe not, since SCUM sounds more appropriate.!

Sorry Kiks,

But he has not covered all the points.
One very simple point needs to be answered.
Who insisted on the values to be used should be 74 Prices. It had to be one side or another. I do not believe that the UN would make such a decision.
Now, Do you know who insisted on using the 74 property prices as the basis for a solution.
If you do, please tell us.

Alvaro De Sotto and Kofi Anan did, YFred! What is the name written on the plan? Doesn't it say ANAN plan?

That's what Kifeas told you few posts back.!

If you remember, during the last couple of months before the referendum too place that anything that the 2 sides could not agree on, the above two characters had a free hand to write in what ever they wanted on behalf of the GC's and the TC's. By this time, PapaD could not care what was in the AP, because he would go against it, and he did, so it is possible it was put in towards the end. As a matter of fact, Turkey asked recently that the same should be done again this time also, on issues that the 2 sides can't agree on, to let the UN fill in the gabs. Fat chance that will be allowed to happen again as far as the GC's are concerned. As Kifeas said, it was designed to favour the TC's by 4:1 ratio, since that's what the difference was between the GC's and the TC's. The whole AP was a sham, so don't get all worked up about just this 1974 prices issues. There were far worse issues than this one.!

I cannot believe for one moment that the issue of which year to take for property prices was not agreed by the two sides and hence was decided by the UN.
TC side did not insist on the 74 prices, so GC side should have been able to perhaps add the market value to it.

But you hit the nail on the head, when you said Papadobullos could not careless about the negotiations, and there in lies the age old problem, negotiation without good faith, by the same man as the one in 1959.

Is Christofias any different? Is he negotiating in good faith or does he not careless about these negotiations and is going to delay matters as much as possible, that he will be able to use the EU to his advantage and gain some points?

[Nikitas]

One more detail about the Annan plan, even if GCs were willing to accept the provisions and decide to buy back their land in the north at current market prices they would not be able to. It was meant to be an exception to the EU acquis and thus it formalised partition on racial grounds.

In other words EU citizens from any other country would be allowed to buy expropriated GC land in the north except GCs. And amazingly there are people who still think that the Annan plan was a good one! The soul of man is indeed an abyss!

The valuation confusion covered in the above posts shows that the only logical starting point is the recognition of legitimate titles as they existed in 1974. Any other arrangement will take us down a path of irrationality and nonsense.

[Get Real!]

One more detail about the Annan plan, even if GCs were willing to accept the provisions and decide to buy back their land in the north at current market prices they would not be able to. It was meant to be an exception to the EU acquis and thus it formalised partition on racial grounds.

In other words EU citizens from any other country would be allowed to buy expropriated GC land in the north except GCs. And amazingly there are people who still think that the Annan plan was a good one! The soul of man is indeed an abyss!

The valuation confusion covered in the above posts shows that the only logical starting point is the recognition of legitimate titles as they existed in 1974. Any other arrangement will take us down a path of irrationality and nonsense.

If that doesn't worry the patriot Bananiot why should it worry you?

[Kikapu]

Alvaro De Sotto and Kofi Anan did, YFred! What is the name written on the plan? Doesn't it say ANAN plan?

That's what Kifeas told you few posts back.!

If you remember, during the last couple of months before the referendum too place that anything that the 2 sides could not agree on, the above two characters had a free hand to write in what ever they wanted on behalf of the GC's and the TC's. By this time, PapaD could not care what was in the AP, because he would go against it, and he did, so it is possible it was put in towards the end. As a matter of fact, Turkey asked recently that the same should be done again this time also, on issues that the 2 sides can't agree on, to let the UN fill in the gabs. Fat chance that will be allowed to happen again as far as the GC's are concerned. As Kifeas said, it was designed to favour the TC's by 4:1 ratio, since that's what the difference was between the GC's and the TC's. The whole AP was a sham, so don't get all worked up about just this 1974 prices issues. There were far worse issues than this one.!

I cannot believe for one moment that the issue of which year to take for property prices was not agreed by the two sides and hence was decided by the UN.
TC side did not insist on the 74 prices, so GC side should have been able to perhaps add the market value to it.

But you hit the nail on the head, when you said Papadobullos could not careless about the negotiations, and there in lies the age old problem, negotiation without good faith, by the same man as the one in 1959.

Is Christofias any different? Is he negotiating in good faith or does he not careless about these negotiations and is going to delay matters as much as possible, that he will be able to use the EU to his advantage and gain some points?

You need to try harder to read and understand what others write and not what you want to hear, YFred. I did not say that PapaD was not interested in negotiating in good faith. I said, about the time when the UN (Kofi) was starting to write parts of the AP on the behalf of the TC's and GC's, shortly before the referendum, was the time he could not careless what was in the AP, because the whole plan was totally lopsided by then, therefore PapaD did the right thing to say OXI, OXI, OXI to the AP.

Did you do your "homework" and read what I asked you to read yet, Perry Anderson's "The Division of Cyprus".?