Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

As I said, the next time you see Donktosh ask him why some GCs killed those 200 odd TCs.

It was their own fault I suppose.....

you have been given evidence as to why Makarios and his regime did not allow us back into anything and you expected Denktas to sit back and watch as you killed each other and then started on us....FFS Have you got an ounce of sense in that head of yours???[/i]

Just ask him this...

Why do you suppose that up to and including the day the Turkish "intervention" took place, not a single Turkish Cypriot had lost their life yet once the Turkish operations got started we ended up with 200 dead?

The whole world and his dog was warning of a Turkish intervention if a single TC was touched...Maybe they were actually listening to this little piece of advice??? When the guns and tanks went off in Cyprus then the Turks got a bit jittery.....Maybe by then they thought fuck it and went for Taksim anyway because the Coup brought even more uncertainty to the TC people....I haven't found it yet, more because I haven't had the time to research it, but I have always wondered what extra advantages the coup would have brought to the Greeks as to claim on the entire island...I suspect that the coup was staged on a greater idea.....I will do the homework one day and see what I come up with.

Going back to the issue, because I only like to tackle one thing at a time...

Donktosh is 100% responsible for all TC deaths that occurred from the 20th of July 1974 onwards, because he stupidly set the Turkish army against the Greek Cypriot people and I’m actually amazed you only had 200 odd victims. I'd even go as far as calling it a miracle...

[zan]

As I said, the next time you see Donktosh ask him why some GCs killed those 200 odd TCs.

It was their own fault I suppose.....

you have been given evidence as to why Makarios and his regime did not allow us back into anything and you expected Denktas to sit back and watch as you killed each other and then started on us....FFS Have you got an ounce of sense in that head of yours???[/i]

Just ask him this...

Why do you suppose that up to and including the day the Turkish "intervention" took place, not a single Turkish Cypriot had lost their life yet once the Turkish operations got started we ended up with 200 dead?

The whole world and his dog was warning of a Turkish intervention if a single TC was touched...Maybe they were actually listening to this little piece of advice??? When the guns and tanks went off in Cyprus then the Turks got a bit jittery.....Maybe by then they thought fuck it and went for Taksim anyway because the Coup brought even more uncertainty to the TC people....I haven't found it yet, more because I haven't had the time to research it, but I have always wondered what extra advantages the coup would have brought to the Greeks as to claim on the entire island...I suspect that the coup was staged on a greater idea.....I will do the homework one day and see what I come up with.

Going back to the issue, because I only like to tackle one thing at a time...

Donktosh is 100% responsible for all TC deaths that occurred from the 20th of July 1974 onwards, because he stupidly set the Turkish army against the Greek Cypriot people and I’m actually amazed you only had 200 odd victims. I'd even go as far as calling it a miracle...

There is no miracle and there is no blame on Denktas.....The killers are clearly identifiable.....It would have been a miracle if we had survived had Turkey not come....

The reason that more murders did not happen is because they knew the Turkish army was marching...Had their been more then there probably would not have been any GCs left on the island....A matter of balance and common sense.....Even in war.

[YFred]

Can we have a GC response of what the 74 coup was for and how was it going to be achieved please?

[74LB]

Piratis, your response is still sad, but expected. You are almost justifying the wiping out of 3 villages, one of which was my mothers.

Quit exaggerating… a total of 65 dead is NOT a “wiping out of 3 villages”!

Every single person that they could get their hands on was killed. While the menfolk were in prison camps in Limassol their villages were wiped out.

Go visit my mothers villages of Sandallar and see what remains - a handful of families rebuilding their lives. It will never be the same.

And you call this exaggerating

Why would I need to go visit your mother’s village when I’ve got thousands of my own to worry about?

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus21136.html

As I said, go lodge your complaint with Donktosh who got on the phone and convinced Turkey to invade and quit wasting our time with the drop in the ocean.

Thousands of viallges to worry about eh, now who is exaggerating ?

[Piratis]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

Doesn't get much clearer than this...

I beg to differ. There are many Kurdish-speaking villages around the town of Divriği in Sivas province, for example. This is over 400 kilometres west of the region shown on that map. I have been to Divriği so I can state that from personal experience. Conversely, I know an academic who comes from Diyarbakır province, which is contained within the green area of your map. His native language is Zazaki, not Kurdish, and he is most inisistent that he is not a Kurd. In fact, he is the author of a very respected grammar of his native language. Anatolia is a mosiac of different peoples and it defies division into ethnically homogenous zones.

Tim, nobody said that all Kurds live in Kurdistan, and that nobody else lives there. In Kurdistan there is a minority of Turks (and others), and Kurdish people live in the rest of Turkey (and elsewhere). This is perfectly natural, it would be very weird if it was in any other way.

The important thing here is that in the Kurdistan area the majority (not all) of people are Kurds, and this has been the case for 1000s of years, long before any Turks came to the area.

The fact is that Turks and Kurds of Turkey struggled, fought together and in 1923 they proclaimed ROT. The name of the place they proclaimed ROT is Turkish Grand Public Assembly where all Turkish citizens, no matter what ethnic origin they have can vote democratically.

So Piratis, why did Kurds of Turkey struggled, fought together with Turks against the enemy to form a new country named ROT? U speak abt Kurds very sure. It seems u r very well "informed" abt Kurds.

Did they Kurds also decide that their language should be banned and they should be renamed to "Mountain Turks"

Funny of how is all fine for the Kurds to be Turkish citizens, but it is not OK for you to be Greek citizens.

[Get Real!]

Piratis, your response is still sad, but expected. You are almost justifying the wiping out of 3 villages, one of which was my mothers.

Quit exaggerating… a total of 65 dead is NOT a “wiping out of 3 villages”!

Every single person that they could get their hands on was killed. While the menfolk were in prison camps in Limassol their villages were wiped out.

Go visit my mothers villages of Sandallar and see what remains - a handful of families rebuilding their lives. It will never be the same.

And you call this exaggerating

Why would I need to go visit your mother’s village when I’ve got thousands of my own to worry about?

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus21136.html

As I said, go lodge your complaint with Donktosh who got on the phone and convinced Turkey to invade and quit wasting our time with the drop in the ocean.

Thousands of viallges to worry about eh, now who is exaggerating ?

I've provided you with a link of the official lists and there's plenty of UN reports that verify 1974 casualties.

[insan]

As I said, the next time you see Donktosh ask him why some GCs killed those 200 odd TCs.

It was their own fault I suppose.....

you have been given evidence as to why Makarios and his regime did not allow us back into anything and you expected Denktas to sit back and watch as you killed each other and then started on us....FFS Have you got an ounce of sense in that head of yours???[/i]

Just ask him this...

Why do you suppose that up to and including the day the Turkish "intervention" took place, not a single Turkish Cypriot had lost their life yet once the Turkish operations got started we ended up with 200 dead?

The whole world and his dog was warning of a Turkish intervention if a single TC was touched...Maybe they were actually listening to this little piece of advice??? When the guns and tanks went off in Cyprus then the Turks got a bit jittery.....Maybe by then they thought fuck it and went for Taksim anyway because the Coup brought even more uncertainty to the TC people....I haven't found it yet, more because I haven't had the time to research it, but I have always wondered what extra advantages the coup would have brought to the Greeks as to claim on the entire island...I suspect that the coup was staged on a greater idea.....I will do the homework one day and see what I come up with.

Going back to the issue, because I only like to tackle one thing at a time...

Donktosh is 100% responsible for all TC deaths that occurred from the 20th of July 1974 onwards, because he stupidly set the Turkish army against the Greek Cypriot people and I’m actually amazed you only had 200 odd victims. I'd even go as far as calling it a miracle...

I thought the combat was between Hellenic forces and Turkish forces from the 20th of July 1974 and onwards.


Look what those "Greek Cypriot people" did to 120 Turkish troops even though none of them was touched by any Turkish soldiers.


http://www.hellas.org/cyprus/timeline.htm

20th of july 1974
06:07 Cyprus One such example is the dropping of 120 troops on Mia Milia. When the villagers saw the troops in the sky, they took whatever firearms they had and started firing. From the 120 troops, 93 were killed, 1 was taken captive, while the rest fled.

Then the fled Trkish soldiers returned with another troop and killed all "innocent" but armed and shooting GC villagers that killed 93 out of 120 Turkish soldiers in the air. Then Hellenes began to use this type of events for propaganda purposes to make the world believe how "barbarian" the Turks are.

[Get Real!]

I thought the combat was between Hellenic forces and Turkish forces from the 20th of July 1974 and onwards.

What combat? 40k Turks vs 2k Greeks? You call that a combat?

Look what those "Greek Cypriot people" did to 120 Turkish troops even though none of them was touched by any Turkish soldiers.

Tough titties... if Donktosh hadn't been on the phone all morning crying for Turkey to come and kill thousands of GCs those people would still be alive today... that's what I've been telling you all day.

[Piratis]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

I don't agree with you Tim. The Kurds are the majority in south eastern Turkey and they have been so for 1000s of years. They are very similar to the Scots. You can't say that there is no Scotland because many Scots now live in London or other cities in the UK or because some no-Scottish people now live in Scotland.

Here is a map of ethnic groups from 1923
http://www.anesi.com/rmap2.jpg

The TCs on the other hand are an ethnic minority which was the result of a comparatively recent colonization. They do not have their own separate territory. They are like the Turks of Bulgaria or the Whites of South Africa, or even the Greeks of Egypt.

Nobody forced any Turks to come to Cyprus, they became a minority on our island with their own free will, and now just like the Turks of Bulgaria, or the Whites of South Africa, or the Greeks of Egypt, these minorities should accept that they do not have any right to impose their rule anymore, and they should accept to be equal citizens along with everybody else.

The comparison with Scotland is totally specious. Scotland was a state with clearly defined boundaries, and all those living within its borders were its citizens. It became incorprated into the United Kingdom as result of the union of the crowns, and later the union of the parliaments. If you study the history of the Scottish state, you will see that it grew over time as it incorporated a number of formerly different kingdoms, initially as the the first people to call themselves 'Scots', Gaelic-speaking migrants from Island, conquered the Picts, and then the Britons of the kingdom of Strathclyde and the Angles of the Lothians. Scotland was a bilingual country right up until the union, with Gealic spoken in the highlands and Scots/Lallans in the lowlands. In short, being 'Scottish' simply meant being an inhabitant of the territory of that state, it was not an ethinic concept.

Conversely, the concept of 'Kurdistan' is a romantic notion dreamed up by certain Kurdish nationalists but which has never existed in any territorial sense. Kurdish anyway is divided into two dialects, Sorani and Kurmanji, which are not really mutually comprehensible and some linguists argue that they are two separate languages. Another interesting theory I once heard from a Kurdish-speaking doctor is that Kurdish is really a dialect of Farsi, and the very term 'Kurdish' was invented to denigrate Faris-speakers living in the region. The situation on the ground is a great deal more complicated than you give credit for.

Turkey was created very recently in 1923 out of territories with people of different languages and religions. An independent Kurdistan in south east Turkey would be way more homogeneous than Turkey.

So why should an independent Kurdistan be a "romantic notion dreamed up by certain nationalists", while the creation of Turkey was not?

Those people are the majority in their territory for 1000s of years, so why not to have their independent nation on their own territory if this is what they want?

[insan]

I thought the combat was between Hellenic forces and Turkish forces from the 20th of July 1974 and onwards.

What combat? 40k Turks vs 2k Greeks? You call that a combat?

Look what those "Greek Cypriot people" did to 120 Turkish troops even though none of them was touched by any Turkish soldiers.

Tough titties... if Donktosh hadn't been on the phone all morning crying for Turkey to come and kill thousands of GCs those people would still be alive today... that's what I've been telling you all day.

U r misinformed abt the number of Hellenic Forces including NG and reserves.