Piratis wrote:I agree with this. So we had the 1960 agreements, and lets assume that those agreements could not work even today. So we agree that both sides have to make concessions. Can you tell me what concessions the TCs made from the 1960 agreements and compare them with the concessions that GCs are supposed to make?
Or maybe if I claim that I own the world, and then I agree to have just half of it, is considered a concession?
It would be unfair for me to do a side-by-side analysis of the agreement reached then, because I cannot honestly say I know the details of that agreement. Speaking of which, does anyone have a link to the text of the 1960 agreement?
What I do know, that in general, its terms were not accepted. Even though in theory, TCs and GCs were meant to be treated as equals, it was not practically the case on the ground. TCs were to a large extent mistreated and forced into "enclaves". This sparked intercommunal violence and each sides push for unions with either Turkey or Greece. TCs seeking protection, GCs seeking a Greek-Cypriot country. The terms were not respected for the TCs, and that is in itself, an unwitting concession imposed upon them.... from what I can deduce anyway.What I say is that we should leave the past behind and we should move ahead for something democratic with respect to human rights. However if TCs bring us the past trying to present themselves as the victims that now have to be rewarded we have no option other than responding, right?
I agree to the point where we should leave behind the past concerning invasions of the Ottoman empire that happened decades ago. This was a completely different time and mentality period and blaming modern-day Turks for that is infantile. Not to mention, by this logic, it would be unfair not to condem many other civilizations and nationals of certain other prosperous countries.
However, it would be irresponsible not to learn from the mistakes of the 1960 agreements onwards. But to learn form these mistakes, we cannot constantly throw accusations and casualty figures of the other side. We must ascertain WHY it didn't work and the reasons for the conflict and resolve that. Much easier said than done with all the negativity in the air. But to expect both communities that have lost contact with each other for over 30 years to suddenly became intertwined is not realistic at all, it will lead to more conflict. The solution should begin with the separate zones and phase out into a completely unified Cyprus as the tension between the sides calms down.First of all, in Switzerland no ethnic cleansing was performed. Do you think that the Italians got their Canton by ethnically cleansing it from the French majority? In Cyprus the TCs do not own any part of Cyprus just by themselves, this is a huge difference. There is one thing to say "we, the great majority of this area decided to form a federation/confederation with another area" and a whole different thing to say "we, the minority of this area will ethnically cleanse it from the majority and then we will form a federation/confederation". It is like if the Italian speaking minority in the French Canton kicks out the French from one part of their Canton and then they demand that this area is recognized as a second Italian Canton. I hope you the difference.
Absolutely, totally agree with you... there is a different history there. Didn't think that comment through in its entirety, but I was merely trying to illustrate why separate zones don't have to be considered separate countries. If we're leaving the past behind us, this system is a good idea. As more TCs move into the GC areas and more GCs move into the TC areas, eventually, the country will be as one (assuming that there is goodwill between them and they don't start fighting again).Also, if you compare the Annan plan with the Swiss model you will realize that they are not as related as you might think. In Switzerland there is one central government that is above the cantons. According to Annan plan the central government of Cyprus would not be above the component states. Study a bit more the Annan plan and the swiss constitution (both of them are online in English) and you will see. Annan plan was nothing more than a disguised partition.The etninic cleansing has already been performed. As you understand this is our main problem. What kind of "solution" would it be for us if it doesn't solve our problems? There is a difference between closing the Cyprus problem and solving the Cyprus problem.
You cannot solve the issue of loved ones lost and their lives will continue to be mourned whatever the solution. Throwing terms like ethnic cleansing at the TC side is not conducive to restoring an atmosphere of peace talks.The annan plan didn't solve the problem, it just closed it declaring the TCs as the winners and us as the losers. Obviously we would never accept such thing.
This is not a win or lose situation for either side and both will do well in not considering this as a "Did I win or lose?" solution. A solution is not based on who came out above the rest, but mutual compromise whereby both sides are "winners" as such... and to do that, both sides have to accept changes in their way of thinking and concessions from what they orgiinally planned. In return, you have a united and peaceful island.Go out in Switzerland and ask people about the Cyprus problem. They know Cyprus as a location and as a tourist destination. Beyond that the average Europeans know nothing more than the average Indians.
Absolutely .... no they do not know the intricate details of the Cyprus problem. They do know about the Greek and Turkish division, and they do know all about the referendum and they do know the Greeks rejected it. Where fair or not, the majority of views are questioning why the greek-side rejected peace whilst the turkish side embraced it.
Despite their views being based on very thin information about the plan, that is still the general view.
As regards to which countries views are more "important". Well, politically, Cyprus relationship with European and Western countries is much more important to it economically and politically than China or India.
But then again... what the others think is largely irrelevant anyway to a Cyprus solution so lets drop that.
In the end, I can understand many of your views, but I also understand the TC view and so both sides must try and understand the others perceptions so as to come to a conclusion. From your more recent posts on other threads I see you doing just that, and the more people who do start to listen the better..
Peace
