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Greek mayor says Olgac made POW admissions to him in 1990

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Greek mayor says Olgac made POW admissions to him in 1990

Postby insan » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:45 am

Giannopoulos said the man who approached him had asked to be taken to Greece for prosecution so that he could face justice and finally find peace.

This had not however been possible because he had no travel documents, the mayor said.

“We could not use the information. What were we to do, abduct him? He had no travel documents. Things weren’t simple. The Turks wanted visas and he couldn’t get a passport.”


http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

Interesting. Olgac wanted to travel to Greece and couldn't get a visa... from whom? Greek Embassy in Turkey or Turks? As far as i know visas r not required to obtain a passport in Turkey... :lol:
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Re: Greek mayor says Olgac made POW admissions to him in 199

Postby Oracle » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:25 am

insan wrote:
Giannopoulos said the man who approached him had asked to be taken to Greece for prosecution so that he could face justice and finally find peace.

This had not however been possible because he had no travel documents, the mayor said.

“We could not use the information. What were we to do, abduct him? He had no travel documents. Things weren’t simple. The Turks wanted visas and he couldn’t get a passport.


http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

Interesting. Olgac wanted to travel to Greece and couldn't get a visa... from whom? Greek Embassy in Turkey or Turks? As far as i know visas r not required to obtain a passport in Turkey... :lol:


Insan, I think that's a compound sentence, with two parts:
1.) The Turks would have wanted (exit) visas for him to travel to Greece.
2.) At the the same time (but independent of the need for a visa), he also first needed a passport, for which he had no paperwork.

That is all that sentence means. Not as you interpreted. :)

Lots of such diversions, as yours, will surface to distract and destroy any evidence.

So let us not lose sight of the justice needed for the breached morality; and not instead seek justice, merely on the grounds of perceived anti-Turkishness :

“It is important that this investigation focuses on the events of 1974 and not to conclude that the actor should be prosecuted for insulting the Turkish nation,” he said.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:05 am

There is a factual error here. Every Turkish citizen, provided they have completed their military service in the case of men - and Olgaç clearly had - can obtain a passport. Turkish citizens do not require visas to exit their own country.
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Postby Oracle » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:08 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:There is a factual error here. Every Turkish citizen, provided they have completed their military service in the case of men - and Olgaç clearly had - can obtain a passport. Turkish citizens do not require visas to exit their own country.


Without paperwork?

Maybe he did not have the paperwork to get travel documents/passport.

As for requiring an exit visa, that was my assumption based on men of serviceable age requiring one .... perhaps then it was an entrance visa to Greece he would have needed ... hence why he went to the Greek Embassy.
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Postby insan » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:18 pm

Oracle wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:There is a factual error here. Every Turkish citizen, provided they have completed their military service in the case of men - and Olgaç clearly had - can obtain a passport. Turkish citizens do not require visas to exit their own country.


Without paperwork?

Maybe he did not have the paperwork to get travel documents/passport.

As for requiring an exit visa, that was my assumption based on men of serviceable age requiring one .... perhaps then it was an entrance visa to Greece he would have needed ... hence why he went to the Greek Embassy.


True. An absolute interpretation. This time ur IQ hit 201, dear. :wink:
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Postby Kikapu » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:37 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:There is a factual error here. Every Turkish citizen, provided they have completed their military service in the case of men - and Olgaç clearly had - can obtain a passport. Turkish citizens do not require visas to exit their own country.


Tim,

In the 70's and 80's and I'm not certain when it eventually stopped being, but in those era, for a Turkish citizen to leave Turkey did require a form of an "exit visa" by making a payment of £100 British Pounds to the Turkish authorities at a time when inflation was running at more than 80%. A £100 back then was much more than what most Turks made in a month which meant most were not able to travel outside Turkey. It was a way for Turkey to make money from the well off Turks and keep the rest in the country so not to take much needed funds out of the country. So, it all depends how an "exit visa" is defined here.
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Postby Kifeas » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:53 pm

Why are you all getting so excited? He refers to travel documents in order to travel outside Turkey, meaning a passport. Who mentioned visa?
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Postby Tim Drayton » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:29 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:There is a factual error here. Every Turkish citizen, provided they have completed their military service in the case of men - and Olgaç clearly had - can obtain a passport. Turkish citizens do not require visas to exit their own country.


Tim,

In the 70's and 80's and I'm not certain when it eventually stopped being, but in those era, for a Turkish citizen to leave Turkey did require a form of an "exit visa" by making a payment of £100 British Pounds to the Turkish authorities at a time when inflation was running at more than 80%. A £100 back then was much more than what most Turks made in a month which meant most were not able to travel outside Turkey. It was a way for Turkey to make money from the well off Turks and keep the rest in the country so not to take much needed funds out of the country. So, it all depends how an "exit visa" is defined here.


I have heard that at one time it was quite hard for ordinary Turkish people to get passports. Then came the 12 September 1980 coup, and Turgut Özal was made prime minister, and he introduced various liberal measures. One of these was a freeing up of foreign travel, although you had to pay quite a lot of money to a social housing fund every time you left the country. This is the kind of payment you are referring to, and I did not know that it existed in the 1970's, but you could well be right.

I still find it hard to believe that a Turkish citizen who had completed his military service could not obtain a passport in 1990 - although, I am sure the authorities would have done all in their power to prevent Olgaç from leaving the country if they had got wind of the reason for this.
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Postby Oracle » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:36 pm

Kifeas wrote:Why are you all getting so excited? He refers to travel documents in order to travel outside Turkey, meaning a passport. Who mentioned visa?


It's mentioned in the article ....

Giannopoulos said the man who approached him had asked to be taken to Greece for prosecution so that he could face justice and finally find peace.

This had not however been possible because he had no travel documents, the mayor said.

“We could not use the information. What were we to do, abduct him? He had no travel documents. Things weren’t simple. The Turks wanted visas and he couldn’t get a passport.”
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Postby YFred » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:01 pm

Wanted: Greek actor with a conscience
By Makarios Drousiotis

DEMANDS that the recent statements by Turkish actor Attila Olgaç be exploited politically have now become universal. The government has already announced that they will raise the matter with the Permanent Representatives Committee of the Council of Europe and seek to secure Turkey’s condemnation on war crimes. I am afraid that once more we are being guided by emotion at the expense of reason.

For the sake of argument, let us accept the veracity of Olgaç’s claims. Beyond the shock they cause, they add nothing to what we already know. Are not invasion, ethnic cleansing and colonisation war crimes? And if we have not managed to get Turkey condemned of these in the 1970s and ’80s when refugees were still living in tents, can we manage it now after we ourselves let Turkey off the hook with our clumsy handling in 2004?

Turkey’s condemnation in is already in its fourth interstate recourse by Cyprus to the Council of Europe. Yet a few months ago, the member countries of the Council of Europe granted more votes in favour of Turkey becoming a member of the UN Security Council than they did in favour of Austria.

When we refer to human rights, we should be deeply convinced of the justice of those rights, and not use them selectively only when those concern our own community or nation.

In August 1974, three entire villages of Turkish Cypriots were annihilated by EOKA B. How many people know that it was only after the execution of the entire male population of the village of Tochni that the first organised transportation of Turkish Cypriot civilians to the occupied north – the widows and orphans of Tochni – was arranged, for humanitarian reasons? Why has this society covered the murderers only because the exactors spoke Greek and their victims spoke Turkish? Is this not hypocritical?

The list of 500 missing Turkish Cypriots includes the names children as young as three or four years of age. The list published in the official gazette of the government on May 12, 2003. Approximately half were innocent civilians who were abducted and murdered in the period from 1963 to 1967.

Among them are the names of 32 Turkish Cypriots who disappeared in Famagusta between May and June, 1964. These people were hapless citizens who were murdered as reprisals for the deaths of two Greek officers and one Cypriot policeman who entered the Turkish quarter of Famagusta bearing arms and in civilian clothes and who subsequently clashed with Turkish Cypriots.

“No action is known to have been taken to bring these responsible to trial,” wrote the then Secretary General of the United Nations, U Thant, in a report on the facts. “In spite of repeated communications by UNFICYP to authorities at all levels, including a letter to the President to trace the whereabouts or the remains of these persons there has been no progress at all in locating them,” the same report mentions.

One group of these missing people were soaking in a well for 44 years and were found last year in Paralimni, after excavations made by the Investigating Committee on Missing Persons.

Many ask, “Why do you raise the subject of the Turkish Cypriot victims now that it is Turkey who is in the dock as a result of Olgaç’ statements?”

Firstly, in my conscience, all Cypriots are equal – no matter which community they belong to. And secondly, and more substantially, I believe that we will find salvation through catharsis – not in the courtrooms.

If something of value has arisen out of all this, it is the shock to public opinion in Turkey itself. It has suddenly been realised that the “peacekeeping operation” of 1974 was a war, with all the attendant extreme barbarity.

Unless we all experience the shock of the truth, unless we all understand the other person’s pain, we will never find our way to deliverance. We will always remain miserable, always bemoaning our wicked destiny and cursing ‘the foreigners’ for hating and undermining us.

So – Wanted: Greek Actor with a Conscience...



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