Cyprus-Forum.com

[MrH]

Theft of Turkish Cypriot Properties in GC-Controlled ROC since 1963!

Since our people (Turkish Cypriots) were forcefully ousted out of the true "Republic of Cyprus" government in 1963, our Complete Moral rights have been Disgracefully, inhumanely and rebelliously removed by the Greek Cypriots - even to this day!

[miltiades]

Theft of Turkish Cypriot Properties in GC-Controlled ROC since 1963!

Since our people (Turkish Cypriots) were forcefully ousted out of the true "Republic of Cyprus" government in 1963, our Complete Moral rights have been Disgracefully, inhumanely and rebelliously removed by the Greek Cypriots - even to this day!

The kettle calling the pot black!!

[Tim Drayton]

I think an article published by Turgut Afşaroğlu published in Afrika on 5 January 2009 addresses this point very well. I put a translation of it on another thread and here it is:

Lord, what a stupid, what a wretched community we are. It is probably impossible to find another community on this globe that fears the law as much as we do. Persistently and stubbornly we move outside international law, and at the same time are afraid.
***
International law says: - An international agreement, for example the 1960 Cyprus Agreements, retains its validity until a new one is concluded in its place. What did we do after 1974? We imagined that the Republic of Cyprus did not exist. Pushing to one side the fact that the guarantors’ sole right was to restore the broken-down Constitutional order, we abandoned our rights in the Republic of Cyprus. Denktash was elected Republic of Cyprus Vice-President in 1973. He had the right to continue in this capacity until 1978. However, no sooner had the TCFS been founded in 1975 than he abandoned this post. It is unclear whom he asked, from whom he obtained authority. If he had remained in this post until the end, he would have been able to veto the Republic of Cyprus’s unilateral EU entry and the Greek Cypriot side would have been unable to accede to the EU on its own.
***
International law says: - According to the Geneva Convention, moving people to a territory that has been taken by armed force, and granting them citizenship, is a crime. What did we do? First, in the name of agricultural labour we moved people from Turkey, then we gave them citizenship and the right to vote. What was the result? Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will. The elected have become Ankara’s puppets.
***
International law says: - You cannot hand out title deeds as you wish for land or property that has been taken with armed force, as though it belonged to you. What did we do? We issued title deeds not only to Turkish Cypriots coming from the south, but also to Turks coming from the north. At this point, let me remind you: until the 1985 TRNC Constitution was adopted, only Usage Certificates were issued rather than title deeds. This was because we opposition Founding Assembly members at the time saw to it that, in accordance with international law, an article was placed in the 1975 TCFS Constitution: - Regardless of any other provision in this Constitution, immovable property abandoned by Greek Cypriots may not be transferred to any real person or corporate body. This article was removed from the 1985 TRNC Constitution and the mad rush to issue title deeds ensued.
***
First the Loizidou case, then the Aresti and Turkish Bank suits came in quick succession. We have lost all of these suits. You should be in no doubt that the Orams case will also result in our defeat. So what needs to be done? Initially, as Barış Mamalı has said, it is necessary to pay compensation immediately in the Orams case, without awaiting the European Court of Justice judgment and without leaving the English courts to deliberate on the matter. It is then necessary to start similar actions to the Orams case concerning construction without permission on Turkish Cypriot land in South Cyprus. Let me immediately pass on a piece of information: the Greek Cypriot side has not been outdone by us. Construction has taken place on a total of 8357 Turkish Cypriot plots without obtaining permission from the Turkish Cypriot owner. Not only the Orams case, but also suits like the Loizidou, Aresti and Turkish bank suits, create precedents for us. And in these matters we can file countersuits. It is like we said! Turks are afraid of the law.

The simple truth is that you can

EITHER

issue title deeds for land which was confiscated during the 1974 invasion and which under international law remains the property of Greek Cypriots

OR

you can defend legitimate Turkish Cypriot property rights under international law

but NOT both.

[Piratis]

Theft of Turkish Cypriot Properties in GC-Controlled ROC since 1963!

More lies from MrH

We started to use properties of TCs in the free areas of Cyprus only after the 1974 Turkish invasion, and after the 18% of TCs took the 37% of land and we had to house close to 200.000 refugees in the part of Cyprus we were left with.

Still no title deeds were given to the refugees to those properties.

Beyond that a proportionate portion of TCs properties could have been expropriated for building roads, hospitals, schools etc, just like they expropriate property from GCs to do so.

On the other hand, the occupation regime issues fake title deeds to our properties and gives them not only to TCs, but to foreigners as well.

[MrH]

Hi Piratis,

We started to use properties of TCs in the free areas of Cyprus only after the 1974 Turkish invasion, and after the 18% of TCs took the 37% of land and we had to house close to 200.000 refugees in the part of Cyprus we were left with.

There you go again on the issue of 18%! Stop looking at the Turkish Cypriots as a percentage but rather as a Partner (50%). Plus, are you saying that two wrongs make a write with the sale of TCs properties in the south using the 1974 intervention of Turkey as a pretext? And with the continuation of the Isolation on our people. If we were to have believed that one day we could live together as one, your continued mocking of everything Turkish Cypriots does not, and has never, painted a pretty picture.

Still no title deeds were given to the refugees to those properties

.

I'm not sure if that is true Piratis, as I personally know that many re-issued title deeds from the Hijacked GC-ROC were originally Turkish Cypriot owned in 1963 (and were not sold but abandoned due to inter-communal fighting).

Beyond that a proportionate portion of TCs properties could have been expropriated for building roads, hospitals, schools etc, just like they expropriate property from GCs to do so.

I guess that makes it okay, does it? So if we used so-called GC owned properties in the North for Hospitals and etc would that make it legal? Would we, also, be able to take the builders and New owners of that particular Hospital to the ECHR or would the GC-ROC provide compensation via an EU-Sponsored Property Commission like the one in Northern Cyprus? Your pointless Court-cases to the ECHR are typical of the Double standards were expected from the GC-Controlled ROC.

On the other hand, the occupation regime issues fake title deeds to our properties and gives them not only to TCs, but to foreigners as well.

The "Occupation Regime", I'm sorry mate, but it's called the TRNC.

Like how we Do NOT recognise the GC-ROC (but chose to NOT rudely refer to it as the "Hijacked Regime"), we at least expected you (GCs) to perhaps refer to us as the "unrecognised TRNC" instead? The "Occupation Regime" you are referring to is not a Positive reflection of a state we voted for under our rights to self determination after years of failed UN Sponsored talks between 1974-1983 (How long did you expect us to wait! We even prior to the TRNC declaration, referred to our state as the "Turkish Federated State of Cyprus", in the view of perhaps reaching a Federal solution!). On the one hand you Want us to ALL live under one umbrella, trusting your people once again, only to continually criticise our state and position beyond any repair in Federal-relations. You don't see China calling Taiwan the "Occupied Regime" do you? I'm Sorry Piratis, but Talat and Christofias are not only going for a miracle with these talks, but for a the 8th Wonder of the world!


_________________

The Turkish army ethnically cleansed the majority of Cypriots from north Cyprus, replaced them with Turkish settlers, and declared the "TRNC" on our land

And for this one, the Turkish Army actually stopped the Greek Coupists from Greece in 1974 from killing more of your people.

[Piratis]

Hi Piratis,

We started to use properties of TCs in the free areas of Cyprus only after the 1974 Turkish invasion, and after the 18% of TCs took the 37% of land and we had to house close to 200.000 refugees in the part of Cyprus we were left with.

There you go again on the issue of 18%! Stop looking at the Turkish Cypriots as a percentage but rather as a Partner (50%). Plus, are you saying that two wrongs make a write with the sale of TCs properties in the south using the 1974 intervention of Turkey as a pretext? And with the continuation of the Isolation on our people. If we were to have believed that one day we could live together as one, your continued mocking of everything Turkish Cypriots does not, and has never, painted a pretty picture.

Oh, so now you want the 50% for your 18% minority? And there was no TC property sales, and therefore no "two wrongs". The wrong was done only by you. We only temporarily use those properties to house our refugess because you keep them out of their own homes.

Still no title deeds were given to the refugees to those properties

.

I'm not sure if that is true Piratis, as I personally know that many re-issued title deeds from the Hijacked GC-ROC were originally Turkish Cypriot owned in 1963 (and were not sold but abandoned due to inter-communal fighting).

You don't know anything. You are just making up things.

Beyond that a proportionate portion of TCs properties could have been expropriated for building roads, hospitals, schools etc, just like they expropriate property from GCs to do so.

I guess that makes it okay, does it? So if we used so-called GC owned properties in the North for Hospitals and etc would that make it legal? Would me be able to take the builders of that particular Hospital to the ECHR or would the GC-ROC provide compensation via an EU-Sponsored Property Commission like in North Cyprus? Your cases to the ECHR are typical of the Double standards were expected from the GC-Controlled ROC.

Expropriation for public facilities is done by the state, and this is something done by all states. In Cyprus there is only one state, the Republic of Cyprus. So don't compare your criminal gang with the state.

On the other hand, the occupation regime issues fake title deeds to our properties and gives them not only to TCs, but to foreigners as well.

The "Occupation Regime", I'm sorry but it's called the TRNC. Like how we Do NOT recognise the GC-ROC (but do not rudely refer to it as the "Hijacked Regime"), we at least expected you (GCs) to perhaps refer to us as the "unrecognised TRNC" instead? The "Occupation Regime" you are referring to is not a Positive reflection of a state we voted for under our rights to self determination after years of failed UN Sponsored talks between 1974-1983 (How long did you expect us to wait! We even prior to the TRNC declaration, referred to our state as the "Turkish Federated State of Cyprus", in the view of perhaps reaching a Federal solution!). On the one hand you Want us to ALL live under one umbrella, trusting your people once again, only to continually criticise our state and position beyond any repair in Federal-relations. You don't see China calling Taiwan the "Occupied Regime" do you? I'm Sorry Piratis, but Talat and Christofias are not only going for a miracle with these talks, but for a the 8th Wonder of the world!

I am talking with facts. If you want to change the labels of things then I really don't care. In Cyprus there is only one state, the Republic of Cyprus, and 1/3rd of Republic of Cyprus is illegally occupied by Turkish troops. These are the facts.

_________________

The Turkish army ethnically cleansed the majority of Cypriots from north Cyprus, replaced them with Turkish settlers, and declared the "TRNC" on our land

And for this one, the Turkish Army actually stopped the Greek Coupists from Greece in 1974 from killing more of your people.

You mean like you saved us from the Venetians in 1571? Interesting way of helping us. Invade us, kill 1000s, violate our human rights, steal our lands, and then import Turkish settlers and give to them the lands stolen from us. Thank you for being so generous

Cyprus would have been so much better without your "help" and I really hope you will soon stop "helping".

[Oracle]

Yes Piratis ... don't forget: 18% is the new 50%.

The theft of the 32% numerical difference, between real (18%) and imagined (50%), can now be added to all the other things Turk-TCs have stolen ....

[Get Real!]

Theft of Turkish Cypriot Properties in GC-Controlled ROC since 1963!

Since our people (Turkish Cypriots) were forcefully ousted out of the true "Republic of Cyprus" government in 1963, our Complete Moral rights have been Disgracefully, inhumanely and rebelliously removed by the Greek Cypriots - even to this day!

Your allegations hang entirely by the fine thread… "forcefully ousted" for which I know you will not find a shred of evidence to support, so your entire forum thread is a waste of time!

Start researching and presenting evidence BEFORE you open your unlearned mouth and make a fool of yourself.

[insan]

I think an article published by Turgut Afşaroğlu published in Afrika on 5 January 2009 addresses this point very well. I put a translation of it on another thread and here it is:

Lord, what a stupid, what a wretched community we are. It is probably impossible to find another community on this globe that fears the law as much as we do. Persistently and stubbornly we move outside international law, and at the same time are afraid.
***
International law says: - An international agreement, for example the 1960 Cyprus Agreements, retains its validity until a new one is concluded in its place. What did we do after 1974? We imagined that the Republic of Cyprus did not exist. Pushing to one side the fact that the guarantors’ sole right was to restore the broken-down Constitutional order, we abandoned our rights in the Republic of Cyprus. Denktash was elected Republic of Cyprus Vice-President in 1973. He had the right to continue in this capacity until 1978. However, no sooner had the TCFS been founded in 1975 than he abandoned this post. It is unclear whom he asked, from whom he obtained authority. If he had remained in this post until the end, he would have been able to veto the Republic of Cyprus’s unilateral EU entry and the Greek Cypriot side would have been unable to accede to the EU on its own.
***
International law says: - According to the Geneva Convention, moving people to a territory that has been taken by armed force, and granting them citizenship, is a crime. What did we do? First, in the name of agricultural labour we moved people from Turkey, then we gave them citizenship and the right to vote. What was the result? Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will. The elected have become Ankara’s puppets.
***
International law says: - You cannot hand out title deeds as you wish for land or property that has been taken with armed force, as though it belonged to you. What did we do? We issued title deeds not only to Turkish Cypriots coming from the south, but also to Turks coming from the north. At this point, let me remind you: until the 1985 TRNC Constitution was adopted, only Usage Certificates were issued rather than title deeds. This was because we opposition Founding Assembly members at the time saw to it that, in accordance with international law, an article was placed in the 1975 TCFS Constitution: - Regardless of any other provision in this Constitution, immovable property abandoned by Greek Cypriots may not be transferred to any real person or corporate body. This article was removed from the 1985 TRNC Constitution and the mad rush to issue title deeds ensued.
***
First the Loizidou case, then the Aresti and Turkish Bank suits came in quick succession. We have lost all of these suits. You should be in no doubt that the Orams case will also result in our defeat. So what needs to be done? Initially, as Barış Mamalı has said, it is necessary to pay compensation immediately in the Orams case, without awaiting the European Court of Justice judgment and without leaving the English courts to deliberate on the matter. It is then necessary to start similar actions to the Orams case concerning construction without permission on Turkish Cypriot land in South Cyprus. Let me immediately pass on a piece of information: the Greek Cypriot side has not been outdone by us. Construction has taken place on a total of 8357 Turkish Cypriot plots without obtaining permission from the Turkish Cypriot owner. Not only the Orams case, but also suits like the Loizidou, Aresti and Turkish bank suits, create precedents for us. And in these matters we can file countersuits. It is like we said! Turks are afraid of the law.

The simple truth is that you can

EITHER

issue title deeds for land which was confiscated during the 1974 invasion and which under international law remains the property of Greek Cypriots

OR

you can defend legitimate Turkish Cypriot property rights under international law

but NOT both.

Tim, the properties issue is not that simple how T Avsaraoglu put forward and u take it as a basis for ur arguements. Try walking in TC's shoes and u tell me what would u do under such circumstances? What had u done when u were sure of that GC leadership would never accept TC community as a politically equal state partner? How Turkey would restore the consti,tutional order while it was/is cyrstal clear that the leadership of GC community insist on "majority rule"? TC community wasted so much time in hope of there would be a "just" solution. The economical loss, psychological damage, educational loss and development loss of TCs have been huge during this "poltical equality/majority rules" struggle. TC leadership has always been aware of what they have done. They have both legal and factual arguments. They r also aware of other's "when it fits" type of justice mentality.

Now Tim, please take all these factors into consideration, have a retrospective look, find what triggered what, try walking in the shoes of Turkish side, imagine that u were/are the leader of the Turks and tell me what u would have done or do.

[zan]

I think an article published by Turgut Afşaroğlu published in Afrika on 5 January 2009 addresses this point very well. I put a translation of it on another thread and here it is:

Lord, what a stupid, what a wretched community we are. It is probably impossible to find another community on this globe that fears the law as much as we do. Persistently and stubbornly we move outside international law, and at the same time are afraid.
***
International law says: - An international agreement, for example the 1960 Cyprus Agreements, retains its validity until a new one is concluded in its place. What did we do after 1974? We imagined that the Republic of Cyprus did not exist. Pushing to one side the fact that the guarantors’ sole right was to restore the broken-down Constitutional order, we abandoned our rights in the Republic of Cyprus. Denktash was elected Republic of Cyprus Vice-President in 1973. He had the right to continue in this capacity until 1978. However, no sooner had the TCFS been founded in 1975 than he abandoned this post. It is unclear whom he asked, from whom he obtained authority. If he had remained in this post until the end, he would have been able to veto the Republic of Cyprus’s unilateral EU entry and the Greek Cypriot side would have been unable to accede to the EU on its own.
***
International law says: - According to the Geneva Convention, moving people to a territory that has been taken by armed force, and granting them citizenship, is a crime. What did we do? First, in the name of agricultural labour we moved people from Turkey, then we gave them citizenship and the right to vote. What was the result? Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will. The elected have become Ankara’s puppets.
***
International law says: - You cannot hand out title deeds as you wish for land or property that has been taken with armed force, as though it belonged to you. What did we do? We issued title deeds not only to Turkish Cypriots coming from the south, but also to Turks coming from the north. At this point, let me remind you: until the 1985 TRNC Constitution was adopted, only Usage Certificates were issued rather than title deeds. This was because we opposition Founding Assembly members at the time saw to it that, in accordance with international law, an article was placed in the 1975 TCFS Constitution: - Regardless of any other provision in this Constitution, immovable property abandoned by Greek Cypriots may not be transferred to any real person or corporate body. This article was removed from the 1985 TRNC Constitution and the mad rush to issue title deeds ensued.
***
First the Loizidou case, then the Aresti and Turkish Bank suits came in quick succession. We have lost all of these suits. You should be in no doubt that the Orams case will also result in our defeat. So what needs to be done? Initially, as Barış Mamalı has said, it is necessary to pay compensation immediately in the Orams case, without awaiting the European Court of Justice judgment and without leaving the English courts to deliberate on the matter. It is then necessary to start similar actions to the Orams case concerning construction without permission on Turkish Cypriot land in South Cyprus. Let me immediately pass on a piece of information: the Greek Cypriot side has not been outdone by us. Construction has taken place on a total of 8357 Turkish Cypriot plots without obtaining permission from the Turkish Cypriot owner. Not only the Orams case, but also suits like the Loizidou, Aresti and Turkish bank suits, create precedents for us. And in these matters we can file countersuits. It is like we said! Turks are afraid of the law.

The simple truth is that you can

EITHER

issue title deeds for land which was confiscated during the 1974 invasion and which under international law remains the property of Greek Cypriots

OR

you can defend legitimate Turkish Cypriot property rights under international law

but NOT both.

The rights and responsibilities are suspended in the TRNC not the "RoC"...Is there a UN resolution or EU rule that says that the TCs cannot claim their property or compensation apart from this Local law of residing in the "RoC" for 6 months???
I think the Brits in the "RoC" should be targeted in the same way....Profiting from my country as a whole...They are no more morally right than the Brits in the TRNC....I am asking questions as to whether this is achievable or not.